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Mattie
Member



Joined: 2004/7/23
Posts: 210


 Legalism

One thing that I struggled with for a very long time, growing up in the church setting, is the issue of legalism. I always knew that we cannot be saved by our works, but I often times tried to walk with God by my own works and think He took pleasure in me because of my works. Thank God for the law of Life, this glorious new covenant.

I think one of the greatest issues in the professing church today is not the prosperity gospel, but a works mentality...

1. Like the Judaizers in the New Testament, we believe even AFTER salvation that God thinks there something good in us. There is no good thing in our flesh - this is a liberating thought - God's not expecting us to reach a standard.

2. the Standard is Christ. The only good that can come out of a human vessel is Christ Himself. Anything outside of that is human striving.

The essence of a religious spirit is feeling superior to another or less than another. We are all one because of Christ. Praise God

 2008/2/1 13:48Profile









 Re: Legalism



Quote:
We are all one because of Christ. Praise God

Mattie, amen. There is a great need within the unity of Christ, for individuals to recognise each other's singular contributions to the whole, not by way of elevating the believer, but by way of acknowledging Christ in the believer, and that believer's intention to edify.

It's a good thing edification is spiritual, although there may be actions associated with building one another up, such as serving in practical ways.

Ephesians 2
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 2008/2/1 16:07
sermonindex
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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37453
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
1. Like the Judaizers in the New Testament, we believe even AFTER salvation that God thinks there something good in us. There is no good thing in our flesh - this is a liberating thought - God's not expecting us to reach a standard.


There truly is legalism in churches but the bigger problem right now is calling things legalism that are really only true christianity. Obviously we are saved by grace and not of our works. This article is good to clear up many misconceptions of living the Christian life:

[b]Visible Churches Warned by J.C. Ryle[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=22071&forum=34

Quote:
2. the Standard is Christ. The only good that can come out of a human vessel is Christ Himself. Anything outside of that is human striving.


I have heard many variations on this including that its legalism to try and wake up and pray and read the bible everyday. We should only try and do what when the Spirit "explicably" tells us to. We are so far from normal Christianity that any form of "discipline" amongst those of us that are called saved (by the grace of God) would be good. By our own we are not good obviously but Christ changes us to be "conformed" into His image so that we can walk more like Him. And yes that is Him working in us.. but he is changing us.

It is like a youth group song I used to sing:

He's changing me, My precious Jesus, I am not the same old person that I used to be, sometimes its slow going but theres a knowing that some day perfect I will be.

Little by little everday, little by little in every way, my jesus is changing me.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2008/2/1 16:24Profile
LoveHim
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Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

Quote:
There truly is legalism in churches but the bigger problem right now is calling things legalism that are really only true christianity. Obviously we are saved by grace and not of our works. This article is good to clear up many misconceptions of living the Christian life

i was wondering why we are so scared of talking about good works after salvation. as if the moment we mention works, we are bombarded with the "works mentality" label and scriptures.

*did Jesus not command us to produce fruit for Him?
*were we not created in Him for good works?

then why all the fuss over good works after salvation?

just some questions.
phil

 2008/2/1 17:15Profile
poet
Member



Joined: 2007/2/16
Posts: 231
Longview WA

 Re:

I think many people confuse holiness with works.
I will mention holiness and they think Im talking about works.
Unless holiness is works and IM confused.


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howard

 2008/2/1 19:33Profile
Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re:

Quote:

sermonindex wrote:
There truly is legalism in churches but the bigger problem right now is [b]calling things legalism that are really only true christianity.[/b]



Brother, my heart goes with yours.

Quote:

sermonindex wrote:
We are so far from normal Christianity that any form of "discipline" amongst those of us that are called saved (by the grace of God) would be good. By our own we are not good obviously but Christ changes us to be "conformed" into His image so that we can walk more like Him. And yes that is Him working in us.. but he is changing us.

 2008/2/1 19:56Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, it is normal christian activity when you say I must pray and I must study 2 hrs a day or witness to ten people every day.it is legalism for me to say you must do the same.jimp

 2008/2/2 3:58Profile
Mattie
Member



Joined: 2004/7/23
Posts: 210


 Re:

In reading the responses, it appears that many are taking what I said out of context.

I never said discipline, prayer, fasting, and the reading of the Word is sin or is legalism. I said we do these things to think there is something inherently good in us. If our motivation to do these things is to develope a sense of righteousness in ourself, then we are deceiving ourselves. But if it is the life of God within us that causes us to do these things with His heart and mind, rather than in our own flesh - then we are walking in newness of Life.

Repeat: Prayer, reading Scriptures, holy living, obedience - all are necessity. However, they must be done in and through our Christ rather than us striving in our own strength to develope a sense of holiness apart from Jesus.

Legalism and religion is when we think there is something good in us and when our deeds are motivated by that in our hearts. All we do in this new covenant must be Christ in us and through us, newness of life, the law of the Spirit of life. THis is the glory of the Christian. Christ IN Us the hope of glory

 2008/2/2 12:50Profile









 Re: Legalism

Quote:

Mattie wrote:
One thing that I struggled with for a very long time, growing up in the church setting, is the issue of legalism. I always knew that we cannot be saved by our works, but I often times tried to walk with God by my own works and think He took pleasure in me because of my works. Thank God for the law of Life, this glorious new covenant.

I think one of the greatest issues in the professing church today is not the prosperity gospel, but a works mentality...

1. Like the Judaizers in the New Testament, we believe even AFTER salvation that God thinks there something good in us. There is no good thing in our flesh - this is a liberating thought - God's not expecting us to reach a standard.

2. the Standard is Christ. The only good that can come out of a human vessel is Christ Himself. Anything outside of that is human striving.

The essence of a religious spirit is feeling superior to another or less than another. We are all one because of Christ. Praise God



I agree with you brother. Good luck with this arguement here. Your probably wasting your breath.

 2008/2/2 13:48
washad
Member



Joined: 2007/11/15
Posts: 47
arkansas

 Re:

Perhaps we should act out of a knowledge of our inadequacy.This causing us to imitate the great example Jesus Christ. The Scriptures clearly say that there is none righteous no not one. Even in the believer "our righteouness is as filthy rags" [u]apart from the enabling power of Jesus Christ[/u]. One following after righteousness and holiness is often seen as legalistic. This because of the strict standard of Jesus. Philippians 4:8 is the standard that is set forth for the believer to judge all things. I say this even beyond the more explicit mandate of "be ye perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect", and "be ye holy for I am holy". Bible study and prayer.
Fasting and meditation. Memorization and soulwinning. These things take time and each is required for a well rounded relationship with the Lord. Now is it legalistic to put these things first? Is it legalistic to require these of yourself? your family? Your church? Answer. It can be. If you begin to make rules. (Pray, study for this long everyday. If you don't your a backslider!You had better witness to at least five people every day or you don't care about souls!) That is legalism.
It is not the act but rather the motive. Jesus told the Pharisees that the things they did were good but they were trading the best for the good.( tithing of spices but robbing widows, he said to take care of the last three but not to leave the other undone). He exposed their motives and was quick to point out there is a difference between doing something for self exaltation in self righteousness(look at me) and doing something for the sake of Christ (look at Him).The same action but a different motive leads to a different reaction from God Himself. This is what I see in the issue of legalism. I had better stop this may not even be online with this thread.


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jonathan

 2008/2/2 14:02Profile





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