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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : THE HERESY OF CHEAP GRACE -oniel

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hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:
So are you saying that Christ alone is sufficient, and that His death is not enough to save a person?



no i am not saying that

Quote:
About the overcoming, look at what John says here-
1 John 5:4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith.
1 John 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

So if a person believes, then they have overcome the world, because that person is a new creature. Utterly and completely new, while the old Adam clings on and fights against the new.



in a sense you are right, but John is not writing to unsaved people, he is writing to the church, to believers, people active in ministry we read and people who once had a great love that now turned cold.... and he plainly says "repent or else"

to those believers that overcome, there are three tenses in scripture, in one we have been saved, in another we are being saved and in one we are going to be saved.

and so i think with overcoming also

in one sense we overcame the old nature, the world, and satan

in one we are still battling it, A brother here on SI said something similar to this,(PaulWest i think) the dictator that once was on the throne is now dethroned, but he is sneaking outside the walls looking for cracks in the Armour

and in one sense we need to overcome it to enter in

there are many many warnings to believers to live holy, and i rather take them to seriously then to lightly


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2008/1/31 19:01Profile









 Re: THE HERESY OF CHEAP GRACE -oniel

Christ's death was FOR ALL PEOPLE!!!

The freedom that is offered is a FREE GIFT!

It can not be earned!
It is not automatic!
It can be refused.

During the presidency of Andrew Jackson, George Wilson robbed a federal payroll from a train and in the process killed a guard. The court convicted him and sentenced him to hang. Because of public sentiment against capital punishment, however, a movement began to secure a presidential pardon for Wilson, and eventually Jackson intervened with a pardon. Amazingly, Wilson refused it.

Since this had never happened before, the Supreme Court was asked to rule on whether someone could indeed refuse a presidential pardon. Chief Justice John Marshall handed down the court's decision: "A pardon is a parchment whose only value must be determined by the receiver of the pardon. It has no value apart from that which the receiver gives to it. George Wilson has refused to accept the pardon. We cannot conceive why he would do so, but he has. Therefore, George Wilson must die." "Pardon," declared the Supreme Court, "must not only be granted, it must be accepted." George Wilson, as punishment for his crime, was hanged.

Likewise, God, through His mercy, has provided every human being pardon from their sins. However, that pardon must be accepted in the way God has ordained. Those who do not accept the pardon will perish.

 2008/1/31 19:11
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:
God, through His mercy, has provided every human being pardon from their sins. However, that pardon must be accepted in the way God has ordained. Those who do not accept the pardon will perish.



that is a good one, more scriptural would be those who dont overcome will perish ;-)


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2008/1/31 19:14Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
Likewise, God, through His mercy, has provided every human being pardon from their sins. However, that pardon must be accepted in the way God has ordained. Those who do not accept the pardon will perish.



Obedience to the gospel is faith in what it declares is it not? So that is what God requires. He that believes will not perish, that is stated over and over again, it does not says, "he that believes and does these works to prove his believe will be saved."

Of course neither does it say, "he that believes will live in sin and enjoy it, or not have any fruit."

It says, "he that believes."

But the posted article says basically that the grace of God in Christ's death is not enough to save people, and that if man does not work, he will not be saved.

So out of one side of your mouth you say that Christ has made salvation available, but then out of the other side, you say man must do works to be saved?

So again does Christ alone save?


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patrick heaviside

 2008/1/31 19:22Profile
Tears_of_joy
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Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re:

Quote:

roaringlamb wrote:

So out of one side of your mouth you say that Christ has made salvation available, but then out of the other side, you say man must do works to be saved?



Salvation is a gift. God is the Giver. You neither [b]worked[/b] for it nor [b]deserve[/b] it. It is grace offered to you freely. You are condemned already. Even if you want to [b]do[/b] something, you cannot, you will mock God and nullify the sacrifice of the Giver.

Imagine that you are total bankrupt and you have 50 cent, the president is coming and giving you a Mercedes worth 100.000$ as a gift. And you say 'please take these 50 cent, I want to be part in your sacrifice of the gift that you have made for me'. This will be foolishness.

Now the question:

Is it 'works' to accept the gift?


What kind of 'works' you are adding to the redeeming act of the sacrifice of giver, by accepting the gift?


If you accept the gift, will He count you this as a 'works'?

Or He will be joyful that you have accept His gift and you humbled yourself and honored Him by that?

Or you will be proud enough to refuse it, 'look, I don't need any gifts, I can work for myself'?

Do you see the difference?

 2008/1/31 19:46Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
Salvation is a gift. God is the Giver. You neither worked for it nor deserve it. It is grace offered to you freely. You are condemned already. Even if you want to do something, you cannot, you will mock God and nullify the sacrifice of the Giver.



I agree, but I do not believe that is what is being discussed by the article.

It seems to be saying that a person can truly be a partaker of grace, and yet if they do not "work" enough, they are not saved. That is why I am using the word "works".

It seems to be promoting a self righteousness that is needed to be saved, and that Christ is not enough to save a person.


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patrick heaviside

 2008/1/31 19:51Profile
psalm1
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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Oswald Chambers wrote" If i exault sanctification , I preach the saints into despair: but if I lift up Jesus Christ,people learn the way to be made holy"
Chambers again "It is a great snare to think that when you are sanctified you cannot make mistakes; you can make mistakes......"

I believe that where "cheap" comes in is the mistake of me looking at my holiness and loosing sight of the one that made me holy.

A sold out saint can do nothing but live a holy life. But that same saint knows his own holiness is filthy rags in the presence of the one who was tempted in all things and yet remained sinless.
It is the holy one we boast of not our holiness.


David

 2008/1/31 20:10Profile









 Re: YOU ARE FREE - NOW ACT ON IT!!

A prisoner has been lying in a dungeon for years, shackled to the walls of his cell. While he's asleep, liberators come in and they cut the chains and they unlock the door and then they go outside into the passageway. Now when the prisoner awakes, they shout into him and say, "The chains are cut, stand up. The door is unlocked, come out, you are free." Either the prisoner believes that and walks into freedom or the prisoner doesn't believe it and stays on the floor of the cell and thinks they are joking or he does believe it but doesn't want to leave the cell that he has got used to. Now those are the only possibilities.

It is not possible for the prisoner to lie in the cell and say, "I believe you and I'm trying to escape." It isn't because the person outside the door says, "But the chains are broken, the door is unlocked, you just have to stand and walk and you'll be free." And the prisoner keeps crying, "I believe that and I'm trying to escape." The liberator says, "No, no, you are not trying to escape." The prisoner doesn't say, "I believe that you cut these chains so that I wouldn't have to escape or I wouldn't need to escape. If I just believe the facts, I don't need to escape." The liberator scratches his head and says, "What!, No, no the very reason I cut the chains was so that you could be free."

Now, Jesus died and took your selfish perverted personality with Him to death so that you could be free. You are free; you can walk in obedience that's why the Bible always identifies belief with obedience. Christ says to you, "If you believe that I died for you and you died with me then obey me. If you don't obey me, it's because you don't believe me or you don't want to be free". That is the true Gospel.

 2008/1/31 20:14
Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re:

freecd, thanks for the two examples, George Wilson and the last one about the prisoner, you explained it well. I fully agree.

 2008/1/31 20:18Profile
sermonindex
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 Re:


The works of a professing Christian are of great importance. They cannot save your soul. They cannot justify you. They cannot wipe out your sins. They cannot deliver you from the wrath of God. [b]But it does not follow because they cannot save you, that they are of no importance. Take heed and beware of such a notion. The man who thinks so is fearfully deceived.[/b]
-J.C. Ryle

from:

[b]Visible Churches Warned by J.C. Ryle[/b]
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=22071&forum=34&0


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2008/2/1 9:51Profile





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