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murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

It is possible to walk before the Lord with a perfect heart! God said to Abraham, "I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect" (Genesis 17:1).

God also said to the children of Israel, "Thou shalt be perfect with the Lord your God" (Deuteronomy 18:13). David determined in his heart to obey this command. He said, "I will behave myself wisely in a perfect way... I will walk within my house with a perfect heart" (Psalm 101:2).

Scripture also points out that Solomon fell short of God's command to be perfect: "His heart was not perfect with the Lord his God, as was the heart of David his father... [He] went not fully after the Lord, as did David his father" (1 Kings 11:4-6).

We see the Lord's command to be perfect in the New Testament as well. Jesus said, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect" (Matthew 5:48).

Paul wrote, "That we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus" (Colossians 1:28); and, in the same letter, "...that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God" (4:12).

And Peter said, "But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you" (1 Peter 5:10).

Perfection does not mean a sinless, flawless heart. Man judges by outward appearances, by what he sees. But God judges the heart, the unseen motives (1 Samuel 16:7). David was said to have had a perfect heart toward God "all the days of his life," yet he failed the Lord often. His life was marked forever by adultery and a notorious murder.

The basic definition of perfect is: completeness, maturity. In the Hebrew and Greek, the definition includes: uprightness, being without spot, without blemish, totally obedient. It means to finish what was started; a complete performance. Wesley called it "constant obedience."

A perfect heart is a responsive heart. It quickly and totally answers the Lord's wooings, whisperings and warnings. This heart says at all times, "Speak, Lord, for your servant heareth. Show me the path and I will walk in it."


_________________
Colin Murray

 2008/1/26 17:26Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

The expression, "being born again," was not first used by our Lord in his conversation with Nicodemus: It was well known before that time, and was in common use among the Jews when our Saviour appeared among them. When an adult Heathen was convinced that the Jewish religion was of God, and desired to join therein, it was the custom to baptize him first, before he was admitted to circumcision. And when he was baptized, he was said to be born again; by which they meant, that he who was before a child of the devil was now adopted into the family of God, and accounted one of his children. This expression, therefore, which Nicodemus, being "a Teacher in Israel," ought to have understood well, our Lord uses in conversing with him; only in a stronger sense than he was accustomed to. And this might be the reason of his asking, "How can these things be?" They cannot be literally: -- A man cannot "enter a second time into his mother's womb, and be born:" -- But they may spiritually: A man may be born from above, born of God, born of the Spirit, in a manner which bears a very near analogy to the natural birth


_________________
Colin Murray

 2008/1/26 17:48Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Murrcolr, I googled "Jewish baptism and one site almost quotes you word for word. www.bebaptised.org
church of Christ
they claim "born of water" means baptism
I do not believe this connection,because it means Nicodemus is acting like he doesn't know what Jesus is referring to.
In none of the 7 letters to the 7 churches does it refer to a person or group that needed baptism.
If this is to be a viable doctrine then we must see examples all over the place where people missed heaven or , are rebuked for not being baptised.
I dont know if you are aware of this doctrine but on another thread this was brought out.
[where Jesus supposedly made a connection with "born of water" and baptism]
I reject this and now that i read that coc website.
It is almost word for word what you are saying, and then they go on to make their point for salvation through water baptism.
I cant remember who was making this point on the "baptism thread" ....I dont think this is a good position doctrinally


David

 2008/1/26 20:48Profile









 Re: Was Job born again?



psalm1 said

Quote:
I dont think this is a good position doctrinally

As I read Murray's post, I understood it to be a reference to the procedure for a non-Jew becoming a proselyte - a represention of birth prior to external circumcision..... I did not pick up that he was saying a Christian needs water baptism for new birth to be true.... because [u]we know[/u] it's the circumcision of the heart which counts in God's sight.

 2008/1/26 20:57
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

dorcus, I dont want to jump the gun on him but when I saw that coc website making the same point I just thought this was relevant.
I hope I did give him the benefit of the doubt but now i wish I had not addressed him.
If you look at his last post?
Baptism and born again in the same breath practically?
my aim is open debate and Just think of me as a crow.
I got something to crow about!..lol
UH....do yall have crows overthere?

David

 2008/1/26 21:23Profile
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

I suppose I am amongst those who believe all saints, both of the Old and New Testament eras, were born again.

For obvious reasons, I do not believe Old Testament believers received the "gift" of the Holy Spirit in the same sense as New Testament believers, but I do believe all saints who ever lived passed through a change of life so spiritually significant that it would be described best as a "new birth", and that this "repentance unto faith" was wrought in all times by the Spirit.

Rather than reiterating what has been put forth more clearly elsewhere, I will give you a link to Matthew Henry's complete commentary for John 3:

[url=http://eword.gospelcom.net/comments/john/mh/john3.htm]Matthew Henry - Complete - John 3[/url]

 2008/1/26 21:30Profile









 Re: Was Job born again?



Hi David,

Quote:
UH....do yall have crows overthere?

We do... but I need to know from you if there is some special message hidden in 'Just think of me as a crow'. What do you mean?

I didn't go to the website, but I thought I understood the point. However, you may be correct that it might have been open to misinterpretation.

 2008/1/26 21:30
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

dorcas, I used to hear it a lot growing up. [still dont know what i want to be when I grow up]
"I've got something to crow about" is just an expression we heard a lot .
When I last heard it,it was on a sermon and the preacher said" God created canaries and God created crows....and Ive got something to crow about."[He couldn't carry a tune but loved to sing]

I borrowed it from him

David

 2008/1/26 22:29Profile









 Re: Was Job born again?



David said

Quote:
God created canaries and God created crows....

Ah! ... :knockedout:


 2008/1/26 22:37
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

I guess what I'm trying to say is....
A year ago I couldnt even spell illiterit
.....now I posts on sermon index

David

 2008/1/26 22:43Profile





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