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Spitfire
Member



Joined: 2004/8/3
Posts: 633


 Claims of Christianity

My daughter called me last night sobbing. She is 29 years old and single. She has a dear friend whom she just found out is a lesbian. My daughter is a devoted believer. She met this person in church about 10 years ago. They've been friends ever since. About 3 years ago, the girl went away to a university to finish her doctorate degree in English. Prior to this, she had always claimed to be a Christian. My daughter has really worked at maintaining their friendship, but has, on many occasions, talked to me about this friend and how she was observing this change she saw in her. She said she had begun attending a Univeralist church and my daughter was quite concerned for her obvious confusion.

My question to those reading this is: How are we, as believers, supposed to conduct ourselves with people who have claimed they are Christians for years and who suddenly declare, "No. I'm not a Christian. Just kidding." Do we then, begin to treat them as we would an unbeliever or do we treat them as a backslidden believer? Is there supposed to be a difference?

It seems to me there should be a difference in the way we act and react to one another as believers. I mean, afterall, we don't expect unrepentant sinners not to sin. But...we do expect a true believer to...care. This is confusing. My daughter doesn't know what to do. She doesn't want to stop being the girl's friend, but then again, she doesn't want to condone her behavior. My daughter is very upset. Does anyone have any insight on this subject? Thanks, Dian.

 2008/1/23 5:06Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2660
Nottingham, England

 Re: Claims of Christianity

This is an ugly and very sad situation.

I really don't have the time right now to give a scriptural reply, but I'll say this.

Which is worse, your daughter losing this 'friend' or your daughter becoming a lesbian?

I guess Romans 1 comes to mind.

And also 2 Cor 6v14, 'Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers...

For my part, your daughter remaining saved is of more importance than a please myself 'Christian'.

That's it for now.

God bless.

 2008/1/23 6:21Profile
Spitfire
Member



Joined: 2004/8/3
Posts: 633


 Re:

I agree, Enid, and I told my daughter these things. She is bringing up her confusion to me and I'm just searching for the truth on this matter. She asked me why did Jesus eat with sinners? How are they supposed to be witnessed to? She wants to show this girl the love of Christ. She doesn't want to stop all fellowship with her for fear that she will have no witness at all. I can see her dilemma. I think we have all been there before. But, I did tell her that it's different when someone has claimed to be a believer all these years and then suddenly says they're not. Of course, my daughter brings up the point that her friend was, obviously, never really a believer. This brings in a totally new point: How are we supposed to treat people who claim to be believers, but we know they aren't? Do we treat them as believers? Is there a difference in how we are supposed to treat believers and unbelievers? I think there is. Dian.

 2008/1/23 6:38Profile
murdog
Member



Joined: 2006/2/4
Posts: 352
Fort Frances, Ontario

 Re: Claims of Christianity

Dian,

The problem today is no one knows what a true Christian looks like anymore. You will know them by their fruit.

I was telling a couple of my unsaved coworkers yesterday about the fact that almost all of the apostles were martyred for their faith. They had no idea, they thought just Jesus was crucified. What I was trying to relate to these guys was that people who walk with Jesus are radical. People were beaten for their faith and killed for their faith. We don't look any different than the world today. We don't rock the boat. We don't tell people they are going to hell anymore. Maybe we are not his disciples?
Those that live a Godly life WILL be persecuted.

What I am getting at is who says your daughter's friend is a Christian. Everybody is a Christian. Where is the regeneration?

My point is, we are way to quick to call people believers. So they go to church, so they read their bible(maybe), so they are on the worship team. So what! Judas was the treasurer!

The scriptures are very frightening in Romans 1 pertaining to homosexuality. It says God gave them over to a depraved mind, three times in that chapter.

Have your daughter show her friend the scripures pertaining homosexuality. If her friend does not receive the correction, she should treat her as an unbeliever. How can two walk together, lest they be agreed?

Murray


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Murray Beninger

 2008/1/23 6:55Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

I know how you feel. This is indeed a difficult situation, however a personal witness isnot really friendship. Friendship goes and hangs out with a person and gets very personally involved (especially on the emotional level). I think that your daughter should daily make sure she has the mind of Christ as a witness and at the same time love this young lady back to the Lord,

Jud 1:21 keep yourselves in the love of God, expecting the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ for eternal life.
Jud 1:22 Have mercy on some who doubt;
Jud 1:23 save others by snatching them from the fire; on others have mercy in fear, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.
Jud 1:24 Now to Him who is able to protect you from stumbling and to make you stand in the presence of His glory, blameless and with great joy,
I really hate to give up on people, I guess I've lived long enough and sinned bad enough and recieved mercy enough to want to exercise patience with people. I have a situation here that's simular in that a lady from our church just gave up on her marriage and left her husband of 18 years and is now living in open sin and working in a bar serving drinks and wants nothing at all to do with the church, up until three month ago she was a sunday school teacher, raised in a godly home. The way I'm handling this is that I will sit in a watch tower and wait on God til He gives me clear direction, than I'll approach her. Your daughters situation is somewhat different, she will have to set up boundries, and that for her own protection (a little leaven ruins the whole bunch/bad company corrupts good character....etc...).

Quote:
This brings in a totally new point: How are we supposed to treat people who claim to be believers, but we know they aren't?


Interesting question! There's no one blanket answer, but I'll share with you what's going on in my little space of the universe. I had a brother who backslid and dissappeared for about 2 years, during this time he refused to recieve my calls and attempts to contact him. Just 1 month ago he showed up with a death sentance of cancer and asked the church for prayer. He have 7 spots on his lungs. The Lord healed 5 of them. Now he's going through all the emotional ups and downs/ stages....that doctors say people go through. Last week he called me crying and depressed and seeking answers, he stated that he's in no way ready to meet the Lord by death. So while I'm in town me and him will meet, I know my job is to get him ready for death, how do I do that? Well the Lord gave me some wisdom (I believe). The both of us will go through the gospels and pen on paper the red letters/Words spoken by Jesus and spend time discuss what Jesus was saying, on my part I'm trusting the Holy Spirit to bring conviction and salvation with all its assurances. I will be asking the Lord to suppy both you and your daughter with that wisdom that comes from above and give you both the grace to walk in it. God bless sis! bro. daryl


_________________
D.Miller

 2008/1/23 7:07Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:


Spitfire wrote:

Quote:
How are we supposed to treat people who claim to be believers, but we know they aren't? Do we treat them as believers? Is there a difference in how we are supposed to treat believers and unbelievers? I think there is. Dian.




Hi Dian,

Without trying to minimize the negative effect that this has had on your daughter... what a great opportunity for your daughter to truly share the gospel without having to sugar coat it.

Your daughters friend is just that, a friend. Friends can share things together that may not be shared with those outside a friendship circle. Your daughters friend has been open enough to talk to her about her sin (although her friend doesn't believe it to be sin I am guessing). If her friend claims to be a believer, your daughter has a right to tell her the convicting truth of the matter with all authority from the Lord.

Her friends betrayal is not towards your daughter, but towards the Lord. If she is still claiming Christianity after discussions with her about her sin, I would suggest that your daughter leave it in prayer and go forward from there. The Lord in prayer will do infinitely more then 100,000 words that we can give.

Pray, pray and pray again for this friend. Let the error of her ways be revealed.


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/1/23 10:56Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Hi Dian,

Well this will probably get me into some hot water, but here goes any way.

How do you know that girl is not a Christian? She may well be regenerate, and may be brought out of her sin, we don't know.

Now before everyone pelts me with stones, listen for a moment.

Is this girl any worse than a man who though he appears outwardly Christian, and is in Church sitting there lusting over one of the women in the congregation? Is this girl any worse than the wife who sits in Church coveting another woman's husband because he makes more money, or seems more godly than hers?

See, if we really understand sin, and just how deep it goes, we will be a bit more merciful to others. It is easy to point out the ones' whose sins are open and clearly seen, but there are a plethora of sins that happen unseen by all but God. This is why man needs a perfect Intercessor, and Mediator before the Throne of God, One who never fails, never sins, and has put that righteousness to our accounts by His grace.

Remember the Pharisees, they had it all together outwardly, but what did Jesus say to them?
"You are whited tombstones, you cleanse the outside of the cup, but the inside is filthy."

Now I am not in any way, shape, or form defending these sins. I am however saying, be careful how quickly you judge another.

What this young woman needs is to be in a place where she can hear both Law and Gospel proclaimed to her. The law so she understands that her life is wrong, and the Gospel so she can see the grace of God in Christ.

Dian, probably the best thing for your daughter to do is to lovingly share the fact that Jesus Christ died to save sinners. Of course this is only if she is comfortable around her.

Ok, let the stones fly :-D


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2008/1/23 11:43Profile









 Re: Claims of Christianity

Dian,

If your daughter has known this woman friend for 10 years and not had any idea that she was a lesbian, well, she probably is not one. Her freind may well just be bored with her life or frustrated with men and wanting to explore other people's ways of living. If your daughter does nothing, but simply remains a good Christian friend, i think this will blow over into nothing. if it doesn't, your daughter will still have done the best thing in demonstrating that good Christians do not judge or harass their friends, but rather stand by them when they are troubled. a good example in this case could be worth far more than any remonstration.

bubbaguy

 2008/1/23 14:38
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Dian,

If I may, try listening to this sermon by Paul Washer. It is appropriate I believe for this situation.

[url=http://downloads1.revivalgodsway.com/12/SID12973.mp3]Modern American Christianity[/url]

This is a strong message, but accurate for times today.


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/1/23 15:32Profile





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