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LiveforGod
Member



Joined: 2007/4/17
Posts: 299


 Calvinism—Arminianism, Which?

I just saw a post by a dear brother in Christ. That post delt with this topic of Calvinism and Arminianism. Im amaized how we spend so much time discussing this things and yet so many other things we do not keep. Where is Holliness in all this? Where is purity in all of it?

1. Unconditional Election. Calvinists believe that God decided before the world began who will be saved and who will be lost. According to unconditional election, your eternal destination has been decided. Nothing you may do will change that destiny!

2. Limited Atonement. Calvin taught that Christ’s blood was shed for the elect only–those God planned to save or “elect” to salvation.

3. Total Depravity. That man can, in himself, do nothing to respond to God or to come to Him. According to this idea, faith is all on God’s part–not on man’s part. The Calvinist will tell you, “God does it all.”

4. Irresistible Grace. If God has decided to save you, He will do it regardless of what you do. You can’t resist the plan and power of God. His saving grace overpowers the free will of the elect.

5. Perseverance of the Saints. Anyone who is saved or “elected” by God can never fall away from or lose that salvation–once you’re saved you’re always saved!

All I see in this is how men finds excuses for living the way they do. Wow, if this is true then go ahead sin all you want, at the end you are still saved.

If that is your god, then I rather be eternally lost. Yeah I seriously do. How can I serve a god that is not Just and righteous. That is not the God I serve. The God I serve and live for has made me clean and has given me the choise of choosing ither him or Satan. I Choose GOD, I choose life, I choose to be holly and live with him the rest of my life.

May we all see That there is a judement seat of Christ like Leonard Ravenhill puts it. We will one day come to judgement to be judged by the judge of all the earth. Let us be ready, watched in the precious blood of the Lamb.


_________________
Samuel

 2008/1/21 16:34Profile
andres
Member



Joined: 2005/6/17
Posts: 285
texas,brownsville

 Re: Calvinism—Arminianism, Which?

but why do you get to choose God and not the other million other people in the world?
is it because your smarter?
or you can read?
or you had Christian parents?
or you had special insight?
or your heart is more prone to Love?
or someone offered you the chance to know Christ?
i really want to know why you and not my friend?


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andy

 2008/1/21 16:45Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re: Calvinism—Arminianism, Which?

Quote:
All I see in this is how men finds excuses for living the way they do. Wow, if this is true then go ahead sin all you want, at the end you are still saved.



The truly saved will not desire to continue sinning.


_________________
TJ

 2008/1/21 16:55Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1076
Germany NRW

 Re: Calvinism—Arminianism, Which?

Siboleth or Shiboleth? Many fruitless and loveless words have been lost in this debate. Brother kills brother in 'friendly' fire.


Here is an anekdote from A.W.Tozer's biography:

I (Cliff Westergren) was preparing to go to Nyack College. Before I left there was one burning question I had in mind, and I went to Dr. Tozer and said, "Could you give me some advice concerning the problem of Calvinism versus Arminianism?"

And I'll never forget the advice he gave me. At the time I thought it was rather inconclusive and not too helpful. But I listened carefully. He said, "My son, when you get to college you're going to find that all of the boys will be gathered in a room discussing and arguing over Arminianism and Calvinism night after night after night. I'll tell you what to do, Cliff. Go to your room and meet God. At the end of four years you'll be way down the line and they'll still be where they started, because greater minds than yours have wrestled with this problem and have not come up with satisfactory conclusions. Instead, learn to know God."

I am neither and both - call me a Christian. If I would tell you my position and you would disagree with me I am still looking forward to share eternity with you.

Philip

 2008/1/21 17:14Profile
LiveforGod
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Joined: 2007/4/17
Posts: 299


 Re:

Hey, Hello andres.

I would gladly answer all of your questions.

Quote:
why do you get to choose God.....



Why did I choose God? I chose him because one day I realized that I had been doing what is wrong before the eyes of God. I chose him because his love thowards me made me feel as a sinner, made me feel guilty before my creator.

Quote:
....and not the other million other people in the world?



Why have they not chosen God? Because even tough they all know, by the law writen upon their hearts that they are doing wrong, they lovr their sin and want to keep doing those things wich they know they should not be doing. Which are not pleasing to his sight.

Quote:
is it because your smarter?



Absolutly not

Quote:
or you can read?



Nope, One does not need to know how to read to know that one is disoveying God.

Quote:
or you had Christian parents?



Nope, You can be born in the Jungles with Indian parents that don't know what 7 multiplied times 7 is and still you know that God exsists and that he has rules to be followed


Quote:
you had special insight?



Nope, All men are born with a God given consience.

Quote:
your heart is more prone to Love?



No, definetly not

Quote:
someone offered you the chance to know Christ?



Nope, Only Jesus gave me a chanse to know him.

Quote:
really want to know why you and not my friend?



Oh dear frined, your friend also has the privilage to know God, it is he how did not choose to know God, God loves us all, and wants us to come to repentance and he wants his entire creation to know him.

If you believe in the Doctrines of John Calvin, then I ask who is greater John Calvin or Jesus Christ? Who do you believe more John Calvin's word or God's Word? May God Bless you my dear friend, I will be praying for you.


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Samuel

 2008/1/21 17:18Profile
LiveforGod
Member



Joined: 2007/4/17
Posts: 299


 Re:

Amen Brother Philip. Learn to know God. Amen

That's why I try not to argue about this, because at the end all that matters is if we know Christ.

Im a Christian, I don't follow any other person's teachings but Jesus Christ's. May we share eternity brother, in Heaven brother, not in Hell.


_________________
Samuel

 2008/1/21 17:23Profile
andres
Member



Joined: 2005/6/17
Posts: 285
texas,brownsville

 Re:

Living for God, i am sorry , for being argumenative i hope you may forgive me.
love andy


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andy

 2008/1/21 17:35Profile
LiveforGod
Member



Joined: 2007/4/17
Posts: 299


 Re:

Oh please don't worry about it. ;-) I did not think you where argumenative at all. You just where questionative (if that's a word).

Did the answers help. Do you have any other question?


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Samuel

 2008/1/21 17:40Profile
andres
Member



Joined: 2005/6/17
Posts: 285
texas,brownsville

 Re:

na your answers help, thanks and thanks for praying i need it
love
andy


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andy

 2008/1/21 17:55Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re: Calvinism—Arminianism, Which?

Quote:
1. Unconditional Election. Calvinists believe that God decided before the world began who will be saved and who will be lost. According to unconditional election, your eternal destination has been decided. Nothing you may do will change that destiny!



Nope, that's not what it means. Unconditional Election is the fact that as Scripture teaches that God elected individuals without any regard to any conditions deserving of salvation in them.

Quote:
2. Limited Atonement. Calvin taught that Christ’s blood was shed for the elect only–those God planned to save or “elect” to salvation.



Well, if you are going to say that Calvin taught something, maybe you should post where he said this. Jesus Himself said that He gave His life for the sheep alone.

Quote:
3. Total Depravity. That man can, in himself, do nothing to respond to God or to come to Him. According to this idea, faith is all on God’s part–not on man’s part. The Calvinist will tell you, “God does it all.”



Again, you are off here as well. Men cannot respond to God apart from His regenerating work in their heart, but it is not God that repents for them, or believes for them. Faith and repentance are fruits of the new heart.

God gives a new heart out of which comes faith.

Quote:
4. Irresistible Grace. If God has decided to save you, He will do it regardless of what you do. You can’t resist the plan and power of God. His saving grace overpowers the free will of the elect.



Well, yes and no. God's grace is resistible, we resist it all the time. So, the point of irresistible grace is that the grace of God actually does what is sets out to do, which is redeem people.

Quote:
5. Perseverance of the Saints. Anyone who is saved or “elected” by God can never fall away from or lose that salvation–once you’re saved you’re always saved!



Again, no Calvinist claims OSAS, but rather the persevering of His saints. They persevere and bear fruit because the Spirit is within them, and their new heart convicts them of their sin.

I also noticed that you did not state the Five points of Arminianism, which of course is what the five points were an answer to.


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patrick heaviside

 2008/1/21 18:27Profile





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