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 Who did Christ die for?

Did Christ die for:

A) All the sins of all the people.

B) Some of the sins of all the people.

C) All of the sins of some of the people.

Please choose which one you believe, and explain why.

Krispy

 2008/1/21 7:55









 Re: Who did Christ die for?




Hi Krispy,

I believe A. If no-one else agrees, I'll come back and explain why, but it would be better if a brother who agrees, gives his reply, I think.

 2008/1/21 8:20
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2661
Nottingham, England

 Re: Who did Christ die for?

Intresting questions, but I won't be partaking, for now.

This thread could go any way.

I hope it goes well.

God bless.

 2008/1/21 8:27Profile









 Re:

I'm asking this because for a long time I've tried to avoid Calvinism vs. Arminianism for a long time... I tend to be middle of the road on that. But what I percieve to be "hyper" Calvinism is raising it's head in our fellowship... so now I am forced to take a serious look at this debate.

And yesterday I was asked this question... and so I thought I would throw it out on this forum and see if y'all can answer this question with some explanations to help me get started on this journey.

Krispy

 2008/1/21 8:28
davyman
Member



Joined: 2007/12/21
Posts: 83


 Re: Who did Christ die for?

Krispy,

If Christ died for all of the sins of all of the people then Hitler would be among the saved. His sins would be forgiven. One may argue that we must appropriate His forgiveness to be saved. The problem arises that the blood Christ shed for Hitler's sin goes unavailed. It is wasted. This, in it's logical end, is the heresy of universalism.

If Christ's blood only covers some of the sin of all of the people then he died in vain. He is the supreme sacrifice, the "Lamb who takes away the sin of the world."

The only answer is that Christ died for all of the sin of some of the people. "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy." To paraphrase John 3:16: "This is how God loved the world," in this way, by "giving his Son that the elect (whoever believes) may have everlasting life." Scripture is replete with examples of God's electing grace. He loves Israel, yet sets aside only a remnant, for example. In the same way, God loves humanity and proves it by keeping a remnant for himself.

SDG,

Dave

 2008/1/21 8:28Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2661
Nottingham, England

 Re:

I understand Krispy, I have the same problem too.

I still avoid it, and will, because it has raged for hundreds of years and we are no better off than when it first started.

I do hope people will use scripture rather than opinion or emotion to answer the questions.

I'll sit on the sidelines and see what develops.

God bless.

 2008/1/21 8:47Profile









 Re:

Quote:
If Christ died for all of the sins of all of the people then Hitler would be among the saved.



If I put a gift under the Christmas tree for everyone in the room... and you refuse to accept it, then I still put a gift under the Christmas tree for everyone in the room. You just refused to accept it.

Quote:
If Christ's blood only covers some of the sin of all of the people then he died in vain. He is the supreme sacrifice, the "Lamb who takes away the sin of the world."



I agree with this. But I find it interesting that you quote [b]John 1:29[/b]: [i]The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.[/i]... yet responded to "A" & "C" the way you did.

Quote:
The only answer is that Christ died for all of the sin of some of the people. "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy." To paraphrase John 3:16: "This is how God loved the world," in this way, by "giving his Son that the elect (whoever believes) may have everlasting life." Scripture is replete with examples of God's electing grace. He loves Israel, yet sets aside only a remnant, for example. In the same way, God loves humanity and proves it by keeping a remnant for himself.



But what about [b]2 Peter 3:9[/b] [i]The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.[/i]?

(Keep in mind... I'm not arguing with you, I'm picking your brain. I want to learn the truth about this whole thing.)

Krispy

 2008/1/21 8:47









 Re:

Does man have any decision in the salvation process? Or does God create some to salvation and some to condemnation... with no choice in the matter? If you're born to condemnation then no matter how much you believe the Bible and believe and trust in God... you're hell bound?

And what does this do for the Great Commission? Why should I be a missionary if God creates some to go to hell and some to go to heaven regardless? Why bother?

If we are created in God's image, then why would He not give man a will? An ability to obey or disobey? An ability to choose?

Krispy

 2008/1/21 8:51
davyman
Member



Joined: 2007/12/21
Posts: 83


 Re:

Krispy,

Yes, man does have a responsibility in his service to God. But we are taught that we are dead in our trespasses and sins, we are like Lazarus in the tomb. When the voice of the Savior calls us forth, we must respond. I wont attempt to tackle the question of double-predestination, I'm leaving for work.

Paul asked "how can they hear without a preacher?" We don't have a clue whom God elects, but he has chosen the foolishness of preaching the gospel to save the hell-bound. Calvinists are just like Arminians in this, we would love to see everyone enter the Kingdom.

We do have a will. Prior to salvation that will is bent on sin. We are slaves to sin. Christ did not die for free men, rather captives. He sets our will free.

Gotta go!

SDG,

Dave

 2008/1/21 9:06Profile









 Re:

Quote:
double-predestination



I've never even heard of that. This whole topic makes my head hurt enough... I dont even want to ponder what "double-predestination" means! lol

Quote:
Paul asked "how can they hear without a preacher?" We don't have a clue whom God elects, but he has chosen the foolishness of preaching the gospel to save the hell-bound. Calvinists are just like Arminians in this, we would love to see everyone enter the Kingdom.



But if they have already been preordained, or predestined to salvation, then what does it matter if we go or not? They will be saved one way or another... right? If you say "no", then the whole Calvinist theology crumbles. Right?

Krispy

 2008/1/21 9:07





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