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Yes... somehow I totally misunderstood jimp... and I apologize for the ensuing chaos. My bad. please forgive me.
| 2010/11/28 13:28|
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...i try not to walk in criticism for He is not the accuser of the brethren..
This may sound right under different circumstances, but "wolves in sheep clothing" were always exposed by Jesus and His Apostles. "Criticism" is not even a Biblical thought or word in The Word, when it comes to exposing error that is brought into what is called The Church.
Would you allow your grandchildren or any new converts to sit under a man who curses and speaks far too openly about sex and preaches easy believism?
It is obvious that there is a true crisis here of a famine of His Word.
Lots of talk about some "Jesus" person, but not His Word.
HIS Word is all that matters here - not ours or our sentimental experiences.
Either we are the "people of The Word" or we're nominal christians. He and His Book maintains that as truth.
So many christians these days, sound more like Pilate than Jesus' Disciples.
Here, in these verses, was one time that Jesus did not need to yell - and neither am I....
Joh 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then?
Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king.
TO 'THIS END' WAS I BORN, AND FOR 'THIS CAUSE' CAME I INTO THE WORLD, THAT I SHOULD "BEAR WITNESS UNTO THE TRUTH" AND EVERY ONE THAT IS OF THE TRUTH HEARTH MY VOICE.
Joh 18:38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth?"
Three times Jesus questioned Peter after His resurrection - "Do you love me?" and what did Jesus command Peter to do if he indeed did love Him?
Protecting the flock was what Jesus commissioned the more mature In The Word to do, as His Apostles and every great man since, in the History of The Church have done just that.... and paid a great price for it, I might add.
Most all of the Epistles were written to counteract heresies. All were what we call Apologetics ... the defense of truth against error.
I ask in brotherly love - are these few verses posted here "criticisms"?
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
Luk 10:3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.
Act 20:26 [Paul said] Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
Act 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
| 2010/11/28 14:31|
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some thoughts are good. Maybe you still are missing a few pieces of common sense that someone else just got concerning jimp.
by your SI name, are you oneness?
| 2010/11/28 16:29||Profile|
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I agree w/ Jesus-is-God. While I misunderstood 'jimp', calling out false teachers is not "accusing the brethren" because in order to "accuse the brethren" the accused must first be brethren. False teacher (those who teach 'another gospel') are not our brethren. They are unregnerate 'devils'.
Anyone who thinks differently needs to read John MacArthur's book "The Jesus You Can't Ignore: What You Must Learn From The Bold Confrontations Of Christ"
| 2010/11/28 17:01|
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hi, i really dont care or dont know about mr.driscoll...i thought he was the trumpet player phil driscoll...what i do care about is all of you... the word krino is the word for judge in the scriptures and is forbidden for us to do.mt7:1-2, 1cor4:5, Rom2:1, rom:14:4...just a few versus of many...diakrino is the word for discern.this is what we should be doing.1cor11:31 ...if we would judge(discern) ourselves,we should not be judged(krino).jimp
| 2010/11/28 19:29||Profile|
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So when Paul called out false teachers, etc you are saying that he sinned?
I think you have seriously misunderstood scripture in regards to "judging".
| 2010/11/28 20:46|
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We live in a society today where their beliefs (leaven) have seeped into the church.
The word discriminate is a good word, but worldly society has made it a bad word. Yet we all are discriminatory in many ways. We are discriminate in our tastes for food, or cars that we drive, or other things that we purchase. To discriminate is to judge. We judge that we like this or like that. All humans are discriminatory and judgmental.
Yet these words have been classified by the politically correct as bad words.
We are to judge between good and bad doctrine. We are not to judge a person's eternal destination.
The Word of God is like a water filter. It is used to filter all kinds of beliefs and doctrines. Truth is pure water and contaminants must be filtered out by the Word of God. Otherwise, what are we to drink?
Satan transmits doctrinal beliefs and philosophies through men. We must judge the meaning of words and beliefs.
We judge the food and drink for our bodies and we must judge the food and drink for our spiritual "body" also.
Since man transmits correct or incorrect doctrine, then man will be judged as to whether he/she is a false teacher or not.
It is really not that hard to understand. The Lord judged the Pharisees as hypocrites and He is the One who shows us how to judge rightly. We don't judge subjectively. Only by the whole counsel of God's Word.
Did you know that none of the spiritual gifts work without the gift of discernment? Satan knows this and would love to give discernment a negative connotation.
| 2010/11/28 21:13|
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hi,the chiefest of sinners;paul was protecting his children of the faith,who he was responsible for and he descerned the problem and took care of it.he was the one who brought the gospel to those he protected.he did little to protect those at jerusalem or india or anywhere else he did not minister to. a pastor has a right to protect his sheep.if you study the words i gave you instead of react to what you read and think with your preconceived thought patterns you might understand the gravity of this awful blight that is overtaking christianity.there is no minisrty of judging in the scripture.there is only one who judges...God Himself.we are to do justly and love mercy and walk humbly withour God.His mercies are new every morning.Jesus said I came not to condemn(krino) the world ...but to save it...i suggest you follow Jesus.jimp 777 i would use descern and descriminate as what we should be doing.good word.
| 2010/11/28 21:22||Profile|
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Jimp, I know your heart is not to see any brother treated unfairly. I agree that we have to be very careful. You make some interesting points and I would just like to add that all of Paul's letters are written by the Holy Spirit for the entire church all over the world. His letters were not just for 'his' sheep as you put it. His letters were circulated to many cities and eventually they were canonized as the Word of God and are now read by the whole world. They have great application for us today.
Remember, that before Paul died, he said, that false brethren would arise amongst you. This is very significant. He said, FALSE BRETHREN would arise among us.
He tells us to turn away from those that profess a form of godliness but deny the power thereof.
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
TURN AWAY, JIMP. What are we suppose to do with this verse? To turn away, you have to judge and discern what you are going to turn to or turn away from.
Paul says that we are to hold fast sound words. In order to hold fast sound words, we also have to know what not to hold fast to. We are not to hold fast to every word, right?
2Ti 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
Regarding Jannes and Jambres Paul says this:
2Ti 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
Jimp, it is a fact that the folly of some men is manifest to those who discern truth. Are we wrong to warn the younger believers who are not yet mature in discernment?
An earthly Mother and Father teach their kids right and wrong. They teach them discernment. It is to protect them and keep them on the "narrow" path and from following strangers with get rich quick schemes or anyone else out there that would take advantage of their naivete, their innocence.
You say we are called to do justly and love mercy and I agree.
It is "doing justly" to expose false prophets, false shepherds and protect the church and the mercy part is that we welcome anyone into our fellowship who repents of their folly. And we walk humbly with our God and ask Him to keep us from being deceived.
I don't know what you have experienced and I am sure it is pretty bad. You call it a blight and I think you have seen some unjust judging that has hurt many. I think we all have. Let's not go to the other extreme, though.
Love you bro,
| 2010/11/28 23:33|
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I'll take it one step further... the HOLY SPIRIT wrote those words of warning against those false teachers. He did it through Paul. Some of those false teachers were called out BY NAME... for all eternity for everyone who picks up a Bible to read. It was GOD's intention and plan to have those men called out... by name... through Paul... for all the world to see.
That's pretty heavy stuff.
If we did not exercise godly, scriptural judgement in the church can you imagine the chaos we would have? In fact, much of the problems in the church today are because of the lack of exercising godly, scriptural judgement.
Can judging be a problem in the church? Absolutely! No one denies that. But we are not to throw the baby out with the bathwater and swing the other direction and just allow any old thing to take place or be taught. We twist scripture when we do that.
| 2010/11/29 7:07|