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Talkn2u
Member



Joined: 2006/12/31
Posts: 196


 ReignDownUSA

I was recently made aware of 4 26 08 being ReignDownUSA.

What have any of you heard on this?
Arizona is one of the few states that are participating on this day.

Details on ReignDownUSA.com

I would be interested to hear what has been said about this date coming up.

Bonnie

 2008/1/18 13:22Profile









 Re: ReignDownUSA


ReignDown 4 26 08 is based on this scripture:


14If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.


As far as I believe, this scripture belongs to Israel not to the Church.

To say of the Church..the Body of Christ, that we are wicked and evil and need to turn from our wicked ways is the greatest insult to believers in the NT.

The Church is not land that need to be healed, and this verse is about healing LAND, not people.

Please read the chapters before and after, and that God's blessings on Israel and the LAND He gave them and the blessings and curses upon the land based on their obedience. Read the end of Joshua.

Christians certainly should pray for their leaders and nation, but please find another scripture to use.

Again My People if applying to the Body of Christ is not evil or wicked..we are a New creation In Christ Jesus, and have the Righteousness of Christ.

To pick a day out of our own mentality 04/26/08 is to assume God is at the beckon call of mere humans. Sorry !

Today is the day of Salvation...and don't put off tomorrow what you need to do today.

If YOU are evil and wicked...then REPENT. But your wickedness does not affect my standing and relationship with the Lord.

Love in Christ
Katy

 2008/1/18 13:54









 Re: ReignDownUSA


Hi Bonnie,

I've just looked at the website.

Quote:
I would be interested to hear what has been said about this date coming up.

The numbers in the date add up to forty.

I would be interested in an explanation of the black cloth draped round the cross on the home page. It makes the cross look like an occult symbol.


It's true that unless individuals repent, the nation cannot make claims for its standing with God. This is quite an interesting call for leaders.:

'Indeed God is doing something beyond what we could have possibly imagined. How wonderful it will be to help lead thousands of Christ's beloved children into a right relationship with Him through the Holy Spirit by recognizing that we can do nothing without Him. It all begins when we individually ask for personal repentance of our transgressions, believing that our loving Savior will forgive us and pour down an unprecedented blessing on our families, our communities, and our nation.'

Does 'Him' in 'without Him' refer to Christ, or the Holy Spirit?

What constitutes 'unprecedented blessing'?

Is the Holy Spirit being invited here as a means to an end?

Also, perhaps some of you willing exiles from the prosperity movement, could say if this is 'prosperity' language?


I have no idea whether the date is significant. I notice the Saturday before is the beginning of Passover - which means Passover and Resurrection have finally been separated in the world's calendar - but I'm not sure when Passover ends.

 2008/1/19 8:45
davyman
Member



Joined: 2007/12/21
Posts: 83


 Re:

Quote:

Katy-did wrote:

ReignDown 4 26 08 is based on this scripture:


14If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.


As far as I believe, this scripture belongs to Israel not to the Church.

To say of the Church..the Body of Christ, that we are wicked and evil and need to turn from our wicked ways is the greatest insult to believers in the NT.

The Church is not land that need to be healed, and this verse is about healing LAND, not people.

Please read the chapters before and after, and that God's blessings on Israel and the LAND He gave them and the blessings and curses upon the land based on their obedience. Read the end of Joshua.

Christians certainly should pray for their leaders and nation, but please find another scripture to use.

Again My People if applying to the Body of Christ is not evil or wicked..we are a New creation In Christ Jesus, and have the Righteousness of Christ.

To pick a day out of our own mentality 04/26/08 is to assume God is at the beckon call of mere humans. Sorry !

Today is the day of Salvation...and don't put off tomorrow what you need to do today.

If YOU are evil and wicked...then REPENT. But your wickedness does not affect my standing and relationship with the Lord.

Love in Christ
Katy




Katy,

We don't often agree, but I do agree with you on this point. This was a specific prophecy given to the nation Israel regarding the temple. This verse has been misused by US Christians for years. It is especially so with the blab-it-and-grab-it crowd.

What is wrong with calling people to pray because we are commanded to do so by the Bible? Why do we flock to some visionary with some special insight (borders on gnostic heresy)? I watched Shawn-Marie's video. Such a vision should be canonical! Of course, as with most of these visions, she had to throw in miraculous healings by the score along with untold prosperity. Father in Heaven, aren't we choking on the prosperity you've already provided; just as the Israelites choked on the quail? Let us pray, daily for our leaders, that they would be just and righteous, that their leadership would lead this country in a godly path.

Let us repent of our sins of gluttonous consumerism, of our self-centeredness, both individually and nationally. Let us ask forgiveness for our coveteous need for more.

The draped cross is used by some Christian Churches during Passion Week to signify the death and burial of Christ, it is removed on Easter to signify his resurrection. I don't know if RDUSA is using this as symbolism for the idea that, as far as the US is concerned, Christ is in the tomb.

SDG,

Dave

 2008/1/19 10:09Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

From the home page of there own web site:

Updated December 11, 2007

Provision, the Lord keeps providing daily manna.

TBN interview is scheduled on Thursday 12/13/07.

For those people that have truly caught the vision and are ringing the bell across the nation. Thank you for new seeds planted in SD, MN, WI, AZ, NY, MO, FL, CA, CO, LA, KS, MO.

Over the last week, the Lord opened the door of opportunity for Walt and Shawn Marie to sit face to face with Michael W. Smith. Shawn-Marie personally got to share God’s vision of ReignDown USA Repentance Movement in greater depth.

The Lord also made possible a phone conversation between Shawn-Marie and Lou Engle of The Call.

Please take note of that last name....LOU ENGLE

There is a false move of God coming your way America......................

Please warn the people about what is coming......

Carter Colon sees it as well listen to his sermon.

Beware of The angry watchmen
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=16014


_________________
Colin Murray

 2008/1/19 11:00Profile









 Re:

Quote:
What is wrong with calling people to pray because we are commanded to do so by the Bible? Why do we flock to some visionary with some special insight (borders on gnostic heresy)?



We absolutely are committed to pray for our leaders and nation**S**.



I've always been amazed and wondered if God is sitting with his Daily Planner and bottled water carried over His shoulder, to record all these dates humans have requested for God's visitation.

Maybe He has a secretary doing that for Him.

Repentance MOVEMENT??? Hummmmmm!

Are Promise keepers still around? or has that MOVEMENT been flushed?

TODAY is the day of salvation.

Repentance is Godly Sorrow, and without the Gospel pointing to SIN and Jesus Christ who redeems from sin, there is only blind leading the blind....again!

Love in Christ
Katy

 2008/1/19 11:16









 Re:


Just some FYI on Lou Engles and Co!

December 30, 2007
Prognosticators in the Land
Every year around this time we see news features that look back at the year to size up the events that took place. In the church world, 2007 seemed somewhat typical – no big revivals, true or false, to report on. The biggest thing to happen this year were the killings that took place in Colorado at YWAM and at Ted Haggard’s former church New Life Church. We also had the 7-7-7 let-down of Lou Engle’s "The Call" that was hyped up to be the expectant "shift" in the heavenlies – a big dud! Then two scandalous marriage break-ups of Juanita Bynum and Paula White. Nothing earth-shattering there! And 2007 was wrapped up in the announcement of the televangelist investigation of Senator Grassley that is ongoing.
But the year’s biggest dud is the prophecy record of the "Christian" prognosticators. These men and women in the apostolic/prophetic movement get together at the beginning of every year and publish their prognostications for the coming year. They already have their latest predictions for 2008 on DVD for sale so they can make a quick buck by selling you "hidden truth" all for $69.00. So-called prophets Chuck Pierce, Dutch Sheets, Stacey Campbell, Denny Cline, and Steve Shultz will tell us what God is doing in 2008, as if God is tied into our calendar!

But these modern-day soothsayers are not very specific – even the quatrains of Nostradamus were more to the point and you know how shadowy they were. You would get clearer information from astrologers and the National Inquirer’s psychics predictions than you will get from these spiritual hucksters.

Last year Elijah List published the collective prognostications of the ACPE (Apostolic Council of Prophetic Elders), starring Beth Alves, Sam Brassfield, Stacey Campbell, Kim Clement, Paul Keith Davis, Lou Engle, Will Ford, Joseph Garlington, Ernest Gentile, Mary Glazier, James Goll, Bill S. Hamon, Jane Hamon, Tom Hamon, Harry Jackson, Mike & Cindy Jacobs, Jim Laffoon, Sek Leang Ong, Chuck D. Pierce, Rick Ridings, John & Paula Sandford, Michael Schiffmann, Gwen Shaw, Dutch Sheets, Steve Shultz, Jean Steffenson, Sharon Stone, Tommy Tenney, C. Peter & Doris Wagner, and Dominic Yeo.

They prefaced their pontifications with this disclaimer; after all they don’t want to be labeled false prophets:

1. All prophecy not contained in Scripture is conditional.

2. The timing of when the prophecy comes to pass may not occur in a one year time frame. [Then why do they label them for a specific year?]

3. It is possible that the prophetic warnings given will cause either the person or nation to repent and thus turn away the judgment prophesied. Biblically, this happened when Jonah prophesied to Nineveh and the city repented, causing God to relent. [That’s their loop-hole that they’ve used over and over again after failed predictions and have never been able to connect to any repentance by the nations that they have falsely prophesied about.]

And then they go on to their corporate word for 2007:

1. Finishing of a building cycle. Time for new building strategies to be released. [By whom? Roe Messner?]

2. Finishing of the five-fold ministry restored. Apostolic and Prophetic moving together. [With themselves at the top, of course!]

3. Finishing anointing for shifting the courts in America. The nation is hanging in the balance. [I didn’t see any shifting in the courts this year.]

4. Political times of realignment. War against the Jezebel spirit of influence.

5. Finishing anointing for the release of miracles. [How does an anointing get finished?]

6. Finishing anointing for the release of transfer of wealth. Many deals that are in the balance will be completed. Satan has set up strongholds that are ancient and must be torn down to shift wealth to the Body of Christ. [Rather greedy of them, don’t you think?]

And the number one false prophet, Kim Clement, made his own prognostications all by himself. In November of 2006 while he was looking through the coming 2007 calendar with the eyes of a seer, he prophesied very vague things such as the "Spirit" giving the people a year of Jubilee and taking away debt. The most tangible prophecy was supposed to have come through this past Christmas:

"This Christmas, I will bring about changes so massive, that the Church shall no longer even look like the Church has looked before. I will invade the marketplace. I will take Texas, and I will honor you. I will buckle the Bible belt again, and bring honor back to you,’ says the Lord." [I haven’t seen any sudden change in the church, even though false teachers are making headway in stamping out that "old-time religion."]

Pat Robertson outdid all of the above "prophets" and really put his reputation on the line with his "prophecy" of nuclear holocaust in America at the hands of terrorists in the second-half of 2007. He said on his 700 Club broadcast of January 2, 2007:

"I felt that evil men; evil people, are going to try to do evil things to us and to others during the last part of this year. I don't know whether it'll be in the fall or September or later on, but it'll be the second half, somehow, of 2007. There will be some very serious terrorist attacks. The evil people will come after this country."

"And there's a possibility that--not a possibly--a definite certainty that chaos is going to rule, and the Lord said that the politicians will not have any solutions for it. There's just going to be chaos."

"It's going to happen. And I'm not saying necessarily nuclear. The Lord didn't say "nuclear," but I do believe it'll be something like that that'll be a mass killing, possibly millions of people, and major cities injured…."

"So I believe that it's going to be--these first few months, I'm looking forward to it. It's going to be an extraordinary time, and we should expect miracles beyond our wildest fantasies in the first six months. And after then--chaotic." [Egg on his face again!]

Harold Camping, the author of the failed book "1994" projects further than the coming year – he dogmatically says that the rapture is going to take place on May 21, 2011 and the coming of Christ on October 20, 2011. But his record is worse than the Watchtower Society. Even the secular soothsayers have a more impressive record. We already know this is false and we don’t have to wait until May 22, 2011 to proclaim it.

I wonder if Camping’s 1994 prediction of the return of Christ influenced other impressionable false teachers. Others were pointing to that same year as something significant and held it over the heads of donors to hurry up and finance the final harvest of souls. Paul Crouch wrote in the April 1994 issue of the TBN newsletter,:

"By the Holy Spirit, we see this day fast approaching [reference to 2 Pet. 3:10]. As I said earlier, men and women of God who move in prophetic utterance are warning that something "BIG" is going to occur even this year of 1994! Something which will shake America and even the World to its very foundation…many of God’s messengers and prophets are seeing things in the Spirit that boggle the mind! Hospitals – emptied by the healing power of Christ! Instead of us crying out the witness of Christ to the Lost, they will come running to us seeking salvation and refuge from the awesome events coming upon the earth!…But here is where it really gets exciting. Even as God begins to shake heaven and earth, even as the awesome events predicted begin to unfold – God still needs us – HIS WITNESSES – to bring in the final harvest of Souls!…If you haven’t already called or mailed your pledge, do it TODAY! Let’s send a message to Heaven and Hell that TBN is ON THE OFFENSIVE! Satan—BEWARE – TBN is ON THE MARCH AGAIN!" [Emphasis in original.]

I don’t recall 1994 having any real significance – had they predicted 2001 perhaps then we could think of 9/11. So many "prophets" have come and gone who have predicted they would be alive at the second coming of Christ who are now deceased – Kenneth Hagin, Lester Sumrall, and Dr. Richard Eby, to name a few.

These newer "prophets" on the scene have learned from the failures of their predecessors to be vague and shadowy. Camping, Robertson, and Clement are bolder than the others cited in that they put their reputations on the line by giving some specifics.

Too bad they don’t all learn a big lesson and stop calling themselves and one another "prophets" because if they are prophets, they are false ones. If they think God is telling them something, they should play it smart and share it as something the Lord "might" be showing them and not be so dogmatic about their hunches. Then if nothing happens no big deal – and if something does materialize they can hold their heads up as people with keen insights that others can take more seriously.

It is comforting to know that when the Lord returns and sets up His earthly Kingdom, He will first clean up the influences of these "prophets" and the counterfeit spirit:

Zechariah 13:2 - "It will come about in that day," declares the LORD of hosts, "that I will cut off the names of the idols from the land, and they will no longer be remembered; and I will also remove the prophets and the unclean spirit from the land."



 2008/1/19 12:04









 Re: RiegnDownUSA



I decided to have a look at the partners listed, and (I thought) arbitrarily decided to look in on the Joy Church in Glendale, Az, because I knew someone in Glendale once. Turns out that Shawn's dad appears at the very end of the video (which is not short) and is the Walt referred to earlier in the pastor's exhortation.

I was interested in the three triangles at the top right of the webpage, as they reminded me of the elements of the star of David - even coloured, one corner each, in that particular blue - which I suppose tied in with the visual aid during the sermon.

Going back to the video in which Shawn-Marie shares the vision:

davyman said

Quote:
she had to throw in miraculous healings by the score along with untold prosperity. Father in Heaven, aren't we choking on the prosperity you've already provided; just as the Israelites choked on the quail?

Three things strike me. First, I wasn't at all sure that this was a call from the prosperity movement, which shows how deceptive it is. Second, I can see it would be wonderful for all homeless and sick people to be healed, and find themselves miraculously able to provide for themselves - but this was not the message of the Glendale church, who do seem to feed the poor.

Third, about the quail... it is difficult for anyone outside the US to make this judgement, but when travelling, I have been shocked at what I've seen of the impact of poverty on the standard of living of those who are without (quail), and to hear Carter Conlon exposing some of the dogmata of the prosperity movement, which even justifies giving more to the rich, and giving nothing to the poor (in some cases). :-o

davyman... you're sure you're not just being (as) sceptical (as I was)?

 2008/1/19 12:11
Talkn2u
Member



Joined: 2006/12/31
Posts: 196


 Re: ReignDownUSA

It is all so grievious to me; all of this running around to bring in the Spirit of God using programs and "special dates"...

I have been in marvelous worship services in my life; one in particular that was so precious and true, that it was difficult to stand...nothing strange or questionable was taking place...it was just a precious quiet, reverent move of God's Spirit.

No one set the "time" no one built us up to anticipate it...instead it was our regular worship service going on and the Music Pastor spoke for a few minutes on "singing unto the Lord a new song" and he stepped back and quietly worshipped the Lord ...people began to worship Him individually standing at the pews.

The Holy Spirit permeated that congregation. The respect and reverence toward the Holy Spirit was mutual. We were in one mind and focused upon recognizing God as the Mighty and Holy One.

That was the last corporate worship service that I have known His Presence so clearly. And it happened because we waited on the Lord.

Waiting upon the Lord, as they did in the upper room, is what we need to be doing...individually and corporately.

I do believe we must pray, intercede, travail for our Nation; our Leaders, absolutely...And I pretty much understand the "mindset" behind these types of programs....but it just aches my heart to see that many times the point is missed.

We are to individually seek God's Face.
Individually we are to Seek First the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness.
Daily we must individually be in the Word and take on the mind of Christ.
All of this under the guidance and wisdom of the Holy Spirit.
and
since we are dead in Christ and He is alive in Us, HE will move and touch lives.

And when we assemble together, all in one mind and spirit, God would be there in our midsts. And HE ALONE will be Glorified!

Bonnie





 2008/1/19 22:51Profile
davyman
Member



Joined: 2007/12/21
Posts: 83


 Re:

Quote:

Talkn2u wrote:
It is all so grievious to me; all of this running around to bring in the Spirit of God using programs and "special dates"...

I have been in marvelous worship services in my life; one in particular that was so precious and true, that it was difficult to stand...nothing strange or questionable was taking place...it was just a precious quiet, reverent move of God's Spirit.

No one set the "time" no one built us up to anticipate it...instead it was our regular worship service going on and the Music Pastor spoke for a few minutes on "singing unto the Lord a new song" and he stepped back and quietly worshipped the Lord ...people began to worship Him individually standing at the pews.

The Holy Spirit permeated that congregation. The respect and reverence toward the Holy Spirit was mutual. We were in one mind and focused upon recognizing God as the Mighty and Holy One.

That was the last corporate worship service that I have known His Presence so clearly. And it happened because we waited on the Lord.

Waiting upon the Lord, as they did in the upper room, is what we need to be doing...individually and corporately.

I do believe we must pray, intercede, travail for our Nation; our Leaders, absolutely...And I pretty much understand the "mindset" behind these types of programs....but it just aches my heart to see that many times the point is missed.

We are to individually seek God's Face.
Individually we are to Seek First the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness.
Daily we must individually be in the Word and take on the mind of Christ.
All of this under the guidance and wisdom of the Holy Spirit.
and
since we are dead in Christ and He is alive in Us, HE will move and touch lives.

And when we assemble together, all in one mind and spirit, God would be there in our midsts. And HE ALONE will be Glorified!

Bonnie








Bonnie,

Nearly every Sunday, since I left my Charismatic Church for a solid, conservative, baptist church, I have "experienced" the presence of God in every service. I have changed, God hasn't.

I've learned that worship is giving God his due his "worth-ship." I no longer attend services with a desire to get something from Jesus, but rather to give myself to Him. I no longer raise my hands because I am moved by the lyrics of a song or the beat or the melody. I raise my hands in submission to my King.

Here's the cool thing; when I submit myself to Him, Jesus always ministers to me. He is the servant of the service! Oh, how I adore Him. He always refreshes, sometimes with my smile, sometimes with my tears. Every Sunday my church is visited by the Holy Spirit. And I bless Him for it.

SDG,

Dave

 2008/1/20 7:07Profile





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