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Joined: 2004/6/3
Posts: 2

 open view,perfectionism

hi my names martin from england im new to sermon index, but i would like to ask two questions.I am doing a course at the moment and itis very into the open view if anyone has any views on this i would appreicate it,i find it hard because i do belive god knows the future but some of the arguments does seem to make sense.the other question that bugs me is that perfectionism is also taught i really struggle with this 1 , any help on thses two would be very welcome thank you,god bless


 2004/6/6 18:04Profile

Joined: 2003/9/16
Posts: 64

 Re: open view,perfectionism

The mainstream orthodox Christian views on these topics that have been handed down through the centuries are directly in conflict with them. Open theism may sound somewhat reasonable when certain Old Testament passages are read that are very anthropic and describe God in terms we can grasp. The fact is that the view doesn't hold water against the two main views that the church has held for the past 1600 years. Those views being either Augustinianism/Calvinism or semi-Pelagianism/Arminianism.

Eph 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.
7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both[1] which are in heaven and which are on earth--in Him. 11In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who[2] is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Romans 9
Israel's Rejection and God's Purpose
(1) 6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, "In Isaac your seed shall be called."[2] 8That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 9For this is the word of promise: "At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son."[3]
10And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger."[4] 13As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."[5]

John 10
The Shepherd Knows His Sheep
22 Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter. 23And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon's porch. 24Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, "How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly."
25Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me. 26But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.[2] 27My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. 30I and My Father are one."

Christ knows his Sheep. If He didn't He could never have boldly declared that He would build His church. How ridiculous it is to think that Christ could claim that when for all He knew, everyone might drift into complete apostasy within 50 years.

1 Peter 1
Prophets Foretold Salvation in Christ
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

This was a lot of text, but it only touches on a few that make me wonder how open theism ever got started. I also recommend Luther's Bondage of the Will and Jonathan Edwards's Freedom of the Will. Both look deeply into the concept that people are not really as free as they think they are. Scripture teaches this plainly. It calls those in their sins slaves. We are first slaves to sin and then slaves to righteousness if we become saved. We never just arbitrarily do anything. We either follow our father God or we follow or father Satan.

John 8
34Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.

Romans 6
From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
20For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Hope this helps.

Perfectionism is another belief that I can't believe anyone truly holds. I guess if you want to claim to be above all the apostles and believers in Scripture you could claim it, but we all know such people commit sins of omission (or pride). If the apostle Paul couldn't do it then I don't think this Paul can either. I think we all recognize that we are to struggle against sin until we die. We will slip, but we will not stay down. We do though we hate it, but we never love it.

 2004/6/7 9:08Profile

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