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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Praying For The Government

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Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 1872


 Praying For The Government

Hi folks,

I don't get here very often but I consider making comments here a privilege and not a right. I've been contemplating this country and its future etc. and there is a word that has long been in the body of Christ about prayng for one's land and upholding its ruling and civil authorities. But the Lord requires His church to be in right order first before those prayers are effective. I also see some Christians on other forums arguing incessantly about what should be the necessary political ideology that should rule this country. I'm coming to see it's hot air in my opinion if they don't do first what the Lord has offered as a solution. I want to be less critical of our government during the coming year and start doing once again what the Lord requires as a beginning step to meaningful solutions. Here's what I posted elsewhere:

It's Iowa caucus day and maybe fitting to share a little about a growing concern of mine. I sense in my own life a marked tendency to criticize our elected officials and make ridicule of them. I'm certainly guilty of that. During the coming year I want to "fast from words" so to speak and not be so quick to jump on my anti-government bandwagon without doing my part first as God has ordained. And that is pray. Like never before. There's much at stake today and prayer is mightier than all other weapons or political movements. These are not my words but I'll share them anyway FWIW.

Praying for the Government

There are various ways the church can make her authority effective in the world. I would suggest four ways: prayer, witnessing, preaching, and doing good. These are the primary ways in which God expects the church to exercise her influence.

God desires the church to exert a controlling influence in the affairs of this world through prayer. This is clearly stated in the Scriptures. If the church fails to do it, the church has become salt that has lost its savor.

God's Promise to Heal Our Land

In II Chronicles 7:14 we read: "If my people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land ." This is a revelation given to Solomon after he had dedicated the temple. Some of you may have the attitude: That promise was spoken to Solomon a long time ago in the Old Testament and it does not have meaning for today. Let me deal with this objection briefly.

In II Corinthians 1:20 we read: "For all the promises of Gid in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us." Not some of the promises - but all the promises! Not were, not will be - but are! Not merely Yes, but Yes and Amen! in Him to the glory of God through us. "Us" refers to all Christians. How do we glorify God? By claiming His promises! All of God's promises are available to us in Christ today.

Referring back to the promise in II Chronicles 7:14. God speaks of "My people who are called by My name." This is the New King James Version. The literal Hebrew translation is: "My people upon whom My name is called." God's people are those upon whom His name is called.

God says that if His people will do four things, He will do three things. God's people have to do four things first before God will do the three things that He is committed to do. It is a conditional promise. God does not say He will do it unconditionally, but He says, "If My people will meet my conditions, then I will do these things."

Looking to the end of the verse first, the last thing that God will do for His people is heal their land. It is clear that this is the land in which they live. God says it is within the power of His people to do the things which will cause God to heal the land in which they live. Looking at our land today, does it need healing? There is only one answer. The fact that the land needs healing indicates the fact that God's people have failed to do what God told them they should do. The responsibility is with us - not with the drug addict, not with the prostitute, not with the man who never darkens the door of a church. The responsibility is with the people upon whom Christ's name is called!

"Salt of the Earth"

If our land is not healed, there is only one reason. We have not done the things that God requires. I believe that this is precisely the truth. It is simply another way of saying what Jesus said in Matthew 5;13. "You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out, and trampled underfoot by men." If our land is not healed by our presence, then our salt has lost its flavor.

What does salt do? First of all, it gives flavor. As long as we are present in the earth, we give flavor to the earth in the sight of God. In other words, God accepts the world because of the Christians. God deals with the world in grace and mercy, rather than wrath and judgment, because of our presence.

We are the people who are the defense of the country. We are the bulwark of any nation. Consider the example of Sodom. Abraham said to God, "If there are ten righteous men, will you spare the city?" And God said, "Yes." But He could not spare the city because He could not find ten righteous men. I do not know how many men there were in Sodom, but I know that the same proportion still applies. Ten righteous men can save a city the size of Sodom. One hundred men can save a city ten times the size of Sodom and so on. What could a thousand righteous praying saints do for a city? While we are here, the church is the salt of the earth.

Salt also preserves. It holds back corruption. In the days before refrigeration,, meat was preserved with salt. It kept back corruption. What are we here for? To keep back corruption. Corruption in all its forms - moral, social, political. As long as we are here, we do this. Jesus said, "If the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men." When the church ceases to fulfill its function as salt, it will be thrown out and trampled underfoot of men. These men may be Communists or Nazis or followers of some other "ism" that has not yet come forth on the horizon. But it will be men who will trample underfoot the church that is not fulfilling its role in the world as salt.

God's Four Conditions

What are the things God requires His people to do? First of all, "My people shall humble themselves." That is the hardest thing for religious people to do. I do not say this in jest. I mean it sincerely. You hear some people say, "God, make me humble." God never said that. God said, "Humble yourself." He did not say, "I will do it for you." God cannot humble you. God can humiliate you, and He may have to, but the only person who can humble you is you, yourself. Humility must come by an inward act of the will. It cannot come in any other way. If you do not choose to humble yourself, you can be humiliated in the dust but still be proud as peacock.

The first condition is to humble yourself and submit yourself to God. If we are submitted to God, we will also be submitted to God and to His authority. It is easy to say that you submit yourselves to God, But God's Word says: "Submit yourselves to one another - wives to hubands - children to parent - employee to employer. That is where it is not so easy.

If you are to humble yourself, you must be the doer. It is not a bad thing every now and then to get right on your face on the floor before God. Do you think that is fanaticism? Read through the Bible and see the number of men who were on their faces before God: Abraham, Moses, David, Daniel. There is practically not even one of the great, outstanding saints of Gods of whom it is not recorded thathe was flat on his face before God.

The second step is prayer. "If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves and pray." Do not start to pray until you have humbled yourself. Humility comes before prayer.

"Pray and seek My face." The third step is to seek God's face. What does that mean? I understand it means to get directly into the presence of Almighty God - where every barrier and every hindrance is removed, and you are face to face with Almighty God. You may have a prayer meeting, but that is not necessaruly seeking God's face.

The fourth step: "turn from their wicked ways." Who? The alcoholic, the young people that won't go to church? No, the Christian - God's people! The hindrance to revivial is inside the church, not outside. It never has been outside.

Do you know where judgment begins? At the house of God. "For the time has come," Peter says, "for judgment to begin at the house of God" (I Peter 4:17). To make it doubly clear, he adds, "It begins with us first." Then he asks, "What will be the end of those who obey not the gospel of God?" God has always operated this way. He begins with the people who know the most. "To whom much is given much is required" (Luke 12:4 . You say, "I don't have any wicked ways." You must have never gotten close enough to God to see. If you had gotten into God's presence, you would have seen your wicked ways. The very fact that you say you have no wicked ways shows you have not sought to come into His presence any time recently.

After these four steps, God says, "I will hear from heaven." God has not committed Himself to hear every prayer. Did you know that? I am convinced that in many churches the prayers go no higher than the ceiling. In fact, God says, "If we know that He hears us, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him" (I John 5:15). The difficulty is not getting God to answer, but in getting God to hear.

"Then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin." Whose sin? The sin of the prostitute or the dope addict? No, the sin of the church!

"And heal their land." To me the issue is clear. If a land is not healed, the fault is with the people of God. I have considered this, prayed over it, and meditated on it. The responsibility for the condition of modern America lies at the door of the professing church. I believe that is exactly the truth. If our land is not healed, the responsibility rests with us. I am not telling you something that is true about you but not about me.

(Written by Derek Prince - bless the memory of this good brother)


_________________
David Winter

 2008/1/13 11:54Profile









 Re: Praying For The Government

Hi Docs, good to see you again.

Brother, there are many many points of your post that I give a hearty Amen to.

The qualities mentioned and expounded upon - "The Four Conditions" should be an active part of our daily life - regardless of any "blessing" of whatever Nation we find ourselves in.


What we must consider is the context of where the verse 2 Chron 7:14 is found within.

Here are the verses in Context and to which Nation that promise was given....

2Ch 7:10 And on the three and twentieth day of the seventh month he sent the people away into their tents, glad and merry in heart for the goodness that the LORD had showed unto David, and to Solomon, and to Israel his people.
2Ch 7:11 Thus Solomon finished the house of the LORD, and the king's house: and all that came into Solomon's heart to make in the house of the LORD, and in his own house, he prosperously effected.
2Ch 7:12 And the LORD appeared to Solomon by night, and said unto him, I have heard thy prayer, and have chosen this place to myself for a house of sacrifice.
2Ch 7:13 If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people;
2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2Ch 7:15 Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayer that is made in this place.
2Ch 7:16 For now have I chosen and sanctified this house, that my name may be there forever: and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually.
2Ch 7:17 And as for thee, if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, and do according to all that I have commanded thee, and shalt observe my statutes and my judgments;
2Ch 7:18 Then will I establish the throne of thy kingdom, according as I have covenanted with David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man to be ruler in Israel.


The reason I post the context is so that God's people - universally and in many many nations are not discouraged by the "state of the nation" and are compelled to personal revival regardless of the state of affairs in their individual nations.

Secondly - a major factor in "claiming" that verse is to keep in the back of our minds - GOD's "Time-table".

If HE has set Himself on a timetable, known only to Himself, or eschatologically, we cannot expect Him to do as we say --- but we will love, honor and Obey Him, regardless of what is going on around us.

Even if we all Obey His Blessed Word and He still brings judgments upon our Nation(s)- that does not mean that we have failed Him.

Our motive to love and serve Him should be contingent on nothing self-seeking or upon our own welfare or benefit. Love alone should be our motive in all things toward our God.

Many Nations are represented on Forums and we must consider that.

Again, I agree with many points in your post - I just fear that discouragement can hit those who have prayed "toward a desired end" and it does not come to pass and that we be careful that we consider 'where' that one passage has been taken from.

I hope I have worded this in such a way as to not offend but to express a desire to see no harm to His Body and promote obedience out of Love alone and a desire to spread the Gospel, despite any rewards in this life.


By His Mercy Alone.

 2008/1/13 12:37
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 1872


 Re: You bring up very good points HE Reigns

Nah, you didn't say anything offensive. Not at all. I also didn't mean to imply that this verse and prayer objective was just an American verse. I can very well see how it has a universal application for all nations and believers within them.

Concerning God's timetable. There probably is an unalterable aspect to His timing as to what He plans to do with a nation or nations. But I think the church can enter into the spiritual realm through their prayers and effect things there. And of course if they don't enter into this realm and attempt to influence things there then nothing will happen so to speak. I think some of God's plans for judgment can be influenced by the prayers of His church. Many of His promises to bring judgment in the past were conditional. If you don't do what is right before Me I will eventually judge. If you will do what is right I won't. That type of thing. I still think that a fervently praying church may stave off judgment here in this nation if even for a while. And like you correctly state, if judgment does come at least it will be while a church is praying and therefore not shucking their task.

So let's pray. If we don't see our desired end then at least we will be more in tune with the Lord's heart and purposes and willing to let come what may.

Meanwhile, and not playing down the large number of people that have been saved or placing a lower value on them, I'm still waiting for that signs and wonders revival that I have been told for 30 years is just around the corner.

Thank you bro,

"Doc"




_________________
David Winter

 2008/1/16 14:47Profile









 Re:

Hi Docs. Welcome back. Thank you for your kind response.

My heart is grieving brother over this country. More than most will ever know.
I, as many, have grandchildren under 5 yr.s old. I have family who have given there careers to protect us defense wise.
I have a Dad who I love more than life itself, who's given his life to help people. All are as patriotic as a human could be AND they're not Saved Yet.

You KNOW I pray brother. I have over a 100 elderly folks I love and visit.
I no more want anything to happen in the 'bad' sense to this nation as I would want my family hurt.

It tears my guts out Docs. I've prayed this way for years.

But what does that verse and others say, "if you will humble yourselves and CHANGE" - another of my favorites is, "What does the Lord require of you - but to Love Justice, and to Love Mercy and to walk Humbly with your GOD."

That's what He's demanded of us. [b]PERSONAL[/b] REVIVAL.

If we all did that - we'd see changes in the area where we are personally. Anyone in contact with us would be affected and we'd have a burden to go out and reach the lost NOW.

IF we had sought personal revival years ago ------

We need to NOW - and not so God will keep our economy in tact or keep the war away --- but because we LOVE Him. He's grieved because of our lack of Love and caring.

We can't even stop fighting against and looking for each other's faults on here, nonetheless mind our own business of Loving Him first and then letting it trickle down to others in Actions towards the lost or helpless.

Biting - devouring and accusing is all I see. And not over big Heresies, but just judging - motes and beam style. Envy and strife. Looking for opportunity to get another to fall. Comparing ourselves among ourselves - ANYTHING BUT looking at ourselves and seeking PERSONAL revival within our OWN lives.

Why don't we start there?

But to live together as we have and then to ask GOD to "heal our land" ---

Do you know how many people need Bibles or tracts.
I was talking to http://www.wmpress.org on the phone and have gotten their Newsletters for years. They print booklets, bibles, coloring books in 319 languages. They send those out by huge crates and for free - yet their donations are no where near what they Could be getting. If they could just get more money - they could reach the entire WORLD - LITERALLY.
They print and mail by many volunteers. Old people mostly - sending out millions of these booklets out each year. :-o

That's how I know how Sick this nation's christians are - by all the GOOD ministries out there, that aren't getting 1/1000th the amount of help they should be getting.

Going to the VOM site and seeing how inactive the Forum is, knowing that fellow Christians are being tortured.

I woke up SICK over all of this today - so please excuse my venting.
The local Christian Homeless shelter can't even get enough funds and that's in CHARLOTTE.

Do you have any idea how many churches are in Charlotte?

Even a few dollars to a these minitries from all of us could turn the world on it's head.

We've been so prosperous, yet have stashed money in the bank or bought things that will be thrown away anyway, instead of using that money to buy these people booklets in their own languages, etc. and we expect to move God with our prayers?

Ministries that feed children & families around the globe. We brag if we support one child a month at less than $30..

I'm pleading with folks to go to that web address and give - while there's still time.
I've read the many many booklets they offer and they are Heaven sent.
PLEASE. Even if one is poor - just a few bucks. They're so frugal with their spending, you could never find a better way to spread His Word around the world, from the comfort of your own home.

Thank you Docs for letting me vent here.

I'll pray that GOD moves us to MOVE.
To shut those TVs off for a while and VISIT A NURSING HOME - and keep going, until you get a burden for the lost. That is the best way to get a burden, if one doesn't have a strong enough one now. Or to get compassion for humans. And it will trickle down to all peoples.
Work while it is yet day - right ?

What does James say about just praying and not physicalally helping or Matt 25?


God Bless.

 2008/1/16 17:36
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 1872


 Re: Your post speaks for itself He Reigns

Who needs to add anything to it or wants to try? Society and the way things are structured makes it hard to break out of the way we use our time and our resources. What you advocate is many times inconvenient and doesn't please our flesh. I'm going to try and find a more God honoring way to serve others this year so give me a prayer if you would. But as I said, your comments speak for themselves. Meanwhile, I've been praying for our nation and our leaders everyday. It's a New Year's resolution of mine if you believe in them.

Blessings,

"Doc"










_________________
David Winter

 2008/1/17 21:17Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4488


 Re:

Hi docs…

Thanks for this article. I still believe in praying for this nation. It isn’t that I am praying that this nation is exalted out of pride, but in the knowledge that “righteousness exalteth a nation” (Proverbs 14:24). I also believe that God works with us primarily as individuals. We are to “work out our own salvation with fear and trembling” (Philippians 2:12).

As students of revival, it is interesting to read the historical anecdotes of God’s accomplishments within an individual, a congregation, an area and even a nation. When we read of the “Great Awakening” and the “Second Great Awakening,” we do not read of the legislation of a nation. Yet we read of taverns closing down and entire cities joined in repentance. The messages of Whitefield and Finney impacted men who served the nation in office. Benjamin Franklin was one of the founding fathers of this nation who noted the impact that Whitefield had upon this nation. In his autobiography, Franklin described how entire towns were changed following a Whitefield revival. In fact, Whitefield’s message of holiness and repentance was heard by a majority of Americans living during the founding of this nation.

Since God works in us as individuals, how should we pray for our nation?
Should we pray for our nation?

It is important to realize that a nation consists of individuals. The mood of the government is often reflected by the mood of a majority or plurality of the people. This is extremely true in democratic republics, where our government consists of individual representatives that are directly elected by individuals within the population. This is still a nation of the people, for the people and by the people.

Contrary to how it is often suggested, there have been many individuals who went to Washington out of a desire to serve (rather than to be served). I still believe that it is possible for an individual to work in government while maintaining a strict and holy faith. Interestingly, Finney’s autobiography explains how his law school required students to read the Word of God, since the Word of God was the basis for much of American law. Yet, it is obvious that the laws of this nation (while many are based upon noble and Christian principle) are not to be compared with the purity of faith as found only in the Word of God.

When I pray for this nation, I am not praying for the dominion of America. I am not praying for the continued dominance of America in the various aspect of power. Rather, I pray for the individuals. I pray that each individual will come to meet and to know their Creator. It only takes a single man (or woman) who can touch the heart of God in order to pray for change. For too long, some aspects of society have questioned the role of Christians influence in government.

Abortion rights activists, homosexual activists, pornographers, atheists, etc… have complained about this influence. They openly campaign for not only a separation of Church and State – but a diminishing influence of Christianity upon the State (and the individuals who make up this government). So the power of this historical influence is unmistakable – even to sinners. Ironically, there are some believers who actually side with the atheists in this matter. There are some who claim that a believer has no right to influence the nation, while forgetting that it is our responsibility to preach the Gospel to every creature. A government made up of people cannot help but be influenced by the work of the Lord.

I’ve heard it questioned whether or not such prayer can make a difference. America is (like all other nations) certainly "racing toward judgment." Many claim that this nation will be willingly consumed by the Antichrist or his system. Some claim that it already is. And, of course, there are quite a few less-than-ideal characters working in government. There are so few in Washington who truly love and care about the Lord. Yet I am reminded about the impact that a single individual can have in this world. Most of the great revivals took place from the prayer of an individual (or even a small group of individuals). Brother Ravenhill speaks of single men, women and children who spent their life in anguished prayer. The impact of these cries could be felt in every aspect of a community.

History is filled with examples of godly men who impacted the world. William Wilberforce worked tirelessly for years in an effort to abolish slavery in England. He also worked to have Christianity introduced to India (even helping pass legislation that required missionaries aboard trade ships). In addition, Wilberforce implored the legislation to reject certain legal protections of sinful behavior and habits. In the exhaustive biography of Wilberforce that was written by his children shortly after his death, we learn of the difficulties that he faced amongst the established clergy (who felt that a man of God has no business in public office). At one point, some ministers accused him of “serving Gog and Magog.” Still, Wilberforce continued to make a difference in his nation. He campaigned against slavery (unsuccessfully) for most of his public life. He finally retired from his parliamentary seat due to health reasons. But he still campaigned as much as possible. He rejoiced when the House of Commons finally passed the Abolition of Slavery Bill. He died three days later.

William Wilberforce’s impact on his nation (and the world) is undeniable. But what about the impact of a single individual in the mind of God? What about an individual in government? We should remember that Israel and Judah was often a pagan nation. Why? Because it was ruled by pagans. These pagans influenced every aspect of the nation. Sometimes, when there appeared to be no hope, God would raise up a righteous man.

When we read of Israel during the reign of Saul, we read of a kingdom that started out on the right path. Saul was a huge, humble man. He sought the Lord with true humility, considering the ways of God before the ways of the nation. As we know, pride set in. Saul’s life became a tragedy. But the nation mirrored the life of Saul. Instead of wonderfully miraculous victories at every turn, there were troublesome stalemates. This culminated with a giant Philistine mocking the very Name of God in front of the entire army of Israel while King Saul (who stood a head and shoulders above every other man) cowered in his tent. Without the blessing of the Lord given by Samuel, there was a famine for the Word of Lord in the government of Saul.

Things changed with David. Here was an inexperienced young man who spent his life in service to his father. He had a responsibility to his sheep, and battled terrible odds to protect them (to the point of killing a lion and a bear). He was successful because his heart was focused properly. As we know, he brought the Word of the Lord back to Saul’s tent, killed the Philistine and became king in Saul’s stead. But David was far from perfect. We read of David’s terrible fall in 2 Samuel chapters 11 and 12. His sins (lust, adultery, murder, lies, malice, etc…) were far more repulsive looking than the penultimate sin of King Saul (disobedience). But Saul’s heart was filled with pride, while David’s heart broke over the thought of separation from God. We read of David’s cry in the 51st Psalm, where he cried out for the mercies of the Lord. This is far different from Saul’s concern for Samuel to “honor” him before the elders and of Israel. The difference lay with the heart.

Why am I saying this? I’m saying this because David was a single man (in the government) who made a difference for a nation. Not only did he make a difference while he lived, but we read of God’s regard for David later on. Over 400 years after David’s sin with Bathsheba, another king ruled in Israel. Hezekiah was a pretty good king, but things didn’t look so good. The Assyrians were headed toward Jerusalem, and Israel wasn’t prepared. Hezekiah cried out to God for the mercy and protection of this nation. The Lord sent Isaiah to give Hezekiah his answer. The Lord said that he was going to bring down the Assyrians. Why? “[i]I will defend this city and save it, for my sake and for the sake of David my servant[/i]" (II Kings 19:34). In other words, the Lord still thought so highly of David that he was willing to protect the nation 400 years after his death!

When I pray for this nation, I pray for the individuals – who collectively make up the entire nation. These individuals make up the business owners, the teachers, the laborers, the doctors, the attorneys, the judges, the military commanders, the local government, the state government and the national government. A move of God within each can result in a move of God that is collective. This could have a mighty impact – not only in this nation – but in ANY nation!

But what if it doesn’t? What if we are headed so rapidly toward judgment that America (and every other nation) is headed for a certain, unquestionable doom? What if America truly is the Babylon of Revelation, who is drunk with the blood of the saints and the martyrs of Jesus (Revelation 17:6)? Should we still pray for this nation?

Again, I would point that this nation is a nation of individuals. Each individual is important in the sight of God. While America may not be what she once was, she is not beyond hope – because no individual within the nation is beyond hope. Besides, even if we were to believe that America is going to be that detestable Babylonian whore of Revelation, we aren’t exactly sure of God’s timeline. Is it possible that a move of God can still happen in this nation? YES! How do I know? Because a move of God happened within me. A move of God happened within you. I was an agnostic who doubted the very existence of my Creator until the scales fell off of my eyes one night while standing in a field at a summer camp. If God can reveal Himself to me – He can reveal Himself to anyone! It is wonderful to realize that my soul is just as important to the Lord as the soul of President Bush (and vice versa). Even though some believers feel comfortable (and even obligated) to scoff at the President or even question his salvation, the fact remains that he is chosen by God to be the President at this time in history. I am glad that this president at least acknowledges the Name of the Lord (even if I don’t agree with everything he says or does). Besides, the President is just a single individual.

How important is an individual when praying for a revival in this nation?

I heard a story about a businessman who used to walk along the beach each morning. One day, he happened to notice that the tide washed ashore tens of thousands of starfish. The tide was rapidly receding, and the future didn’t look too good for these creatures. As he walked, the man noticed a young boy throwing starfish into the sea. He watched as the young man would pick up a starfish, look at it, and then throw it into the sea. After watching this boy do this about a dozen times, the businessman walked up to him. “[i]Do you truly think that you’re going to make a difference? You can’t possibly throw all of these starfish back into the water. So why are you wasting your time[/i]?” The young man bent down and picked up another starfish. He looked at it, and then threw it into the sea. “[i]It made a difference to [u]that[/u] one[/i],” he said.

I think of this story when I pray for this nation. America is a nation of individuals. Each of these individuals is important in the eyes of God. Each of these individuals can make a difference in the mood of this nation. While not all of them may be William Wilberforce’s or George Whitefield’s, each of them can do something great that can bring the truth of Jesus to their families and neighbors. If the harvest is large enough, then the entire disposition of this nation (including its laws) can be affected.

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2008/1/18 0:50Profile









 Re:

Quote:
docs wrote:
Meanwhile, I've been praying for our nation and our leaders everyday.



Hia Doc. I don't know about resolutions, but I know these verses back you up.
1Ti 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Ti 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


The point of my first post was that, is this thread just about America or are we considering our brethren around the world and the countries they're in also? Maybe we could widen our prayers.

Also, what is our 'deep inside' reason for our prayers.

I'm encouraged that you're encouraged to action. Praise GOD! Occupy until He comes - Amen!

 2008/1/18 2:35
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4488


 Re:

Hi docs...

Quote:
I'm going to try and find a more God honoring way to serve others this year so give me a prayer if you would. But as I said, your comments speak for themselves. Meanwhile, I've been praying for our nation and our leaders everyday. It's a New Year's resolution of mine if you believe in them.

I forgot to mention that I will be praying for you in this endeavor. I will also join you in praying for this nation (individually as well as collectively) and the leaders of this nation. Like Annie said, I will also continue praying for other nations. However, this is the "temporary" nation in which my family and I dwell, so it will probably consume more of my thoughts.

The Lord bless you exceedingly in your endeavor.

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2008/1/18 10:51Profile
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Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 1872


 Re: Praying For Our Nation Pt. II - Healing Through Prayer

Let me say here that this type of prayer can be for any nation anywhere in my opinion. You guys are right about that. Naturally I live here so this nation would be foremost in my mind. But here is another part of Brother Prince's writing on the subject. Thank you for your thoughts and comments. I'll be out of town for a few days so I'll perhaps check in again later. Serious issues are abounding. Blessings to you good folks.

Healing Through Prayer

How can we bring healing to our land? I am going to speak to you about prayer. I will base my teaching on the first four verses of II Timothy chapter 2.

2:1 - "I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;"

2:2 - "for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence."

2:3 - "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;"

2:4 - "who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

Let us consider these words.

Paul says, "First of all, pray!" If you bypass prayer, you can have all sorts of plans, systems and programs, but you do not have the power to operate them. It is like having a building wired for electricity, but not connected to the generator. Nothing is going to work. The wires may be in good order and the light fixtures may be wonderful, but you are not going to get results, because there is no power. The powerhouse of the Christian church is prayer, and Paul very logically says, "First of all, pray!"

Then, what does he tell us to pray for? First, "for kings and all who are in authority." Now my experience is that the majority of God's professing people scarcely pray for those in authority, let alone praying for them first. Many communions have prayers in their prayer books for those in authority and that is a good thing. But it is one thing to say a prayer, and another thing to pray. These two things are not the same. A lot of Christians say things out of a prayer book and if you ask them five minutes later what they said, they cannot remember. It is simply a formality. That is not what praying for those in authority was meant to be.

What is the first specific topic for prayer? "All who are in authority": the president, senators, represenatives, governors, mayors, police commissioners, all. Do you pray for them? When did you last pray for the president? Which did you last do - criticize or pray? If you pray for people in authority you will have less to criticize. God did not call you to criticize. He called you to pray. If you are not praying, you are disobedient. I am just a Britisher, but I pray for the president almost every day. My wife will bear me witness. We pray together, and there is rarely a day thatwe do not pray for the leader of this great nation. I am sure that he needs prayer, and my impression is that your present president knows that he needs prayer.

What are we to pray for in relation to those in authority? It is the most logical unfolding of prayer that can be found anywhere in the Bible. In the second part of verse 2 we are told to pray "that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence." In one simple phrase: good government. Would you not agree to that? If we are to lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence, we must have good government.

In verse 3 Paul continues, "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior." To what does "this" refer? To the preceding clause, "that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence" - more briefly, "that we may have good government."

Why does God want quietness and order and good government? For a very real and practical reason. Because He desires that all men to come into the knowledge of the truth. Under what circumstances is it easier to bring the truth to all men? Under a government that that is just and impartial and maintains law and order and civil liberties? Or under a government that cannot suppress violence and disorder and cannot control the situation and is unjust and dictatorial? Which kind of government makers it easier to bring the truth to all men? Any sensible person would have to answer: a good government. That is why God wants good government, because it forwards the propagation of the gospel, which is His aim in this dispensation . There is nothing difficult, there is nothing complicated, it is entirely sensible and practical.

Let me say it again! The Bible says: First of all in Christian activity - pray. The first topic for prayer is all those in authority. What are we to pray for? That we may lead a godly, quiet and peaceable life. Why are we to pray this way? Because that helps to propagate the gospel. Is that not logical? Are you convinced? To me this is plain, simple common sense. It is not a remote mystery. Thank God, the mysteries have been dispelled by the light of God's Word! It is plain, it is practical, it is simple, it is down-to-earth, it works. I believe that is the will of God that we have a good government. Let us not talk about other nations or countries. Let us concentrate on this one. Good government for the United States is the will of God.

What does the Bible say will happen if we pray for things according to God's will? First John 5:14-15 tells us: "Now this is hte confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him." In other words, if you know that you are praying according to the wil of God, then you know that God hears you; and if you know that God hears you, you know you have the petition that you presented. If it is the will of God for this nation to have good government, and if we pray for good government knowing it is the will of Godf, we know that God hears us; and if we know that God hears us, we know that we have the petition that we desired. If we do not have good government, what is the reason? God's people have not met His conditions and prayed.

Generally speaking, you can say that Christians get the kind of government they deserve. There is a time lag. It does not happen instantly. But by and large, Christians are responsible for the government they live under. If you would take less time to criticize and more time to pray, you would have less to criticize.

Me: Mea culpa from here.


_________________
David Winter

 2008/1/18 10:58Profile









 Re:

Although, I don't follow the Author because of his excesses in "demonology" and "generational curses" - I was tracking with him, until here -

Quote:
It is plain, it is practical, it is simple, it is down-to-earth, [u]it works[/u]. I believe that is the will of God that we have a good government. Let us not talk about other nations or countries. [u]Let us concentrate on this one. Good government for the United States is the will of God.[/u]

What does the Bible say will happen if we pray for things according to God's will? First John 5:14-15 tells us: "Now this is hte confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him." In other words, if you know that you are praying according to the wil of God, then you know that God hears you; and if you know that God hears you, you know you have the petition that you presented. If it is the will of God for this nation to have good government, and if we pray for good government knowing it is the will of Godf, we know that God hears us; and if we know that God hears us, we know that we have the petition that we desired. If we do not have good government, what is the reason? God's people have not met His conditions and prayed.

Generally speaking, you can say that Christians get the kind of government they deserve. There is a time lag. It does not happen instantly. But by and large, Christians are responsible for the government they live under. If you would take less time to criticize and more time to pray, you would have less to criticize.




I believe I replied to this portion in my first post.


I've wondered, what the date of this writing was?

I see no discussion about abortion, immorality, exporting pornography and heresies worldwide, torture, China's (plus) treatment of Christians, and things that should concern Christians, I only see just "don't criticize" and "don't look".

Speaking out on moral issues is not criticizing - but doing what we are called to do. Speak up for the innocent & righteousness, just for two.

If our purpose for praying for leaders is ONLY to have more time to spread the Gospel, that would be fine - but as I said in the second post - we are not doing 1/1000th of what we could do, [i]nor have we been[/i], especially with our (His, actually) MONEY to support missionaries, tract societies, nonetheless, with our own time.

We want, for the most part and according to Barna polls, to think we could suddenly - Now - pray our way out of all our responsibilities to the world.

GOD sees China, Africa, Russia and any other country where our brethren are and most especially, where they are hungry, naked and persecuted.
HE is not "divided". His Body is One. So I take issue with Derek's statement - "Let us not talk about other nations or countries."

Wow - that's cold Derek.

 2008/1/18 12:34





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