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BenWilliams
Member



Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas

 The Call

Hey guys/girls, I was wondering if any of you have ever been to "The Call" conference?

I just went to one, and it was one of the most life changing events that I have experienced, tens of thousands gathering together not to the sound of a festival, but to fast... and pray.

Check it out if you haven't ever heard of it, the website is www.thecall.com

I really would like to hear from ya'll on this, if you want, I have a blog that has a video on it, here's the url, let me know what you think.

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=12643244&blogID=343928754


_________________
Benjamin Williams

 2008/1/7 10:28Profile
ironwood
Member



Joined: 2007/12/26
Posts: 27


 Re: The Call

Hi Ben,
There were many sincere people who attended The Call Nashville last year. God will honor those who prayed and fasted with pure hearts.

I do have a concern about the leadership of "The Call"

NATIONAL BOARD MEMBERS:

Mike Bickle - Director, International House of Prayer
Wesley and Stacey Campbell - Founders, New Life Church, Canada & Be A Hero Ministries
Lou Engle - Founder, TheCall & the Justice House of Prayer
James Goll - Cofounder, Encounters Network
Jane Hansen - President/CEO, Aglow International
Bishop Harry Jackson - Founder and Chairman, the High Impact Leadership Coalition
Brian Kim - TheCall
Dutch Sheets - Senior Pastor, Springs Harvest Fellowship in Colorado Springs, CO
Karen Wheaton - Founder, The Ramp, Hamilton, AL & Chosen

Most, if not all, of these people are deep in to the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) and some of them are members of the International Coalition of Apostles (ICA).

NRA and ICA teach a strong dominionist gospel. They believe that a transfer of wealth will be laid at the apostles feet to be used to usher in the Kingdomof God in a visible way before Jesus returns. This is Christian Theocracy. All theocradies, including "christian" theocradies, end up with innocent bloodshed on their hands.

They are vieing for the same ground as the anti-christ system. Revelations shows us that the anti-christ will have his day before Jesus returns to set up His Kingdom in a visible way as He rules with an iron rod. The Church was never intented to weild the iron rod.

The NRA and ICA see this differently and it is dangerous. "The Call" also hosts "The Call Institute". They train mostly young people which they call "a New Breed" in the domiononist latter rain, sons of God, doctrines that were made very popular by Fuller Theological Seminary graduates.
It sounds so good but it is not the Gospel handed down to us by Jesus and the Apostles.

Jesus commanded us to make desciples of all nations. Not to make all nations desciples.

**********************

I praise God that young and old alike are fasting and praying for America and other nations. We must be careful who we pray in agreement with. These young people are not being prepared for what is to come. It breaks my heart.

Blessings

ironwood



 2008/1/8 20:48Profile









 Re:

quote: Jesus commanded us to make desciples of all nations. Not to make all nations desciples.

Good point, we can plainly see, not ever one will listen. God knows all and we don't, so that's why we evangilize. If we could have enough faith to believe for 10 would God give more?

Eph 3:20-4:1
20 Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, 21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.


John 3:16-17
17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.



 2008/1/9 11:32
BenWilliams
Member



Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas

 Re:

Hey Ironwood,

I just saw your comment, and it concerned me a little bit, I have personally sat under the ministries of many of the men that you named in that list, I have had the opportunity to speak with them, ask questions of them, and compare what they teach to what the scriptures state. They believe every man should test what they say by the scriptures, and I agreed with them, I have done much research on these men, and I do not understand what it is that you object to.

You made a few statements that I wanted to comment on, but before I do I want to ask a question,

Does a bad tree bring forth good fruit?

In other words, fasting, prayer, repentance for sin, and seeking God for revival, are these the fruit of a bad tree, or a good tree?

Quote:
Most, if not all, of these people are deep in to the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) and some of them are members of the International Coalition of Apostles (ICA).

NRA and ICA teach a strong dominionist gospel. They believe that a transfer of wealth will be laid at the apostles feet to be used to usher in the Kingdomof God in a visible way before Jesus returns. This is Christian Theocracy. All theocradies, including "christian" theocradies, end up with innocent bloodshed on their hands.



I looked up both of the things you mentioned, those two groups, and I could not find any compelling evidence that shows either of those two organizations as being against what the scriptures teach. If you have a resource that shows apologetically where they are wrong, I would be more than greatful to see it.

In my time sitting under these men, what they teach does not go near to the extent you have mentioned, everything that I have seen or heard falls completely within the bounds of the example of the early church, and consistent apologetics. Their top teachers and directors, many of them hold degrees from well respected seminaries.


Quote:
They are vieing for the same ground as the anti-christ system. Revelations shows us that the anti-christ will have his day before Jesus returns to set up His Kingdom in a visible way as He rules with an iron rod. The Church was never intented to weild the iron rod.

The NRA and ICA see this differently and it is dangerous. "The Call" also hosts "The Call Institute". They train mostly young people which they call "a New Breed" in the domiononist latter rain, sons of God, doctrines that were made very popular by Fuller Theological Seminary graduates.
It sounds so good but it is not the Gospel handed down to us by Jesus and the Apostles.



These last two statements are not completely true, the doctrines mentioned are wrong, but those people you mentioned do not teach any of those things, believe me, I questioned all of those topics thoroughly, and found the answers. The organizations that those men run have their statements of faith set up so that it actually denies most of those things you mentioned.

I'm not sure how much personal interaction you have had with these men, or how much of what they teach you have personally experienced, or questioned, but the things you are saying are not accurate.

If you care to discuss it, I would love to.


_________________
Benjamin Williams

 2008/1/11 16:47Profile
ironwood
Member



Joined: 2007/12/26
Posts: 27


 Re:

Hi Ben,
I am out of town for a week and I popped in on a friends lap-top. When I get home I will send some research from some of their own websites. I prefer to go to the source instead of second hand "heresy hunter" websites although some are objective in their material.

C Peter Wagner is the lead apostle for the ICA. Peter Wagner and Fuller Theological Seminary are good places to start an NAR inquiry into their teachings/doctrines.

Much of the Kingdom Now, Manifest Sons of God, Latter Rain etc has come from Fuller propfessors and graduates.

Pete teaches that very soon, an end time transference of wealth from the wicked will be transfered to the apostles in order to fianance the Kingdom of God in these last days.

Blessings

Your brother

ironwood

 2008/1/12 14:39Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Hi Ben

A copy of a email sent from some who attend a conference. Names and emails addresses removed for there protection.

Beware of the angry watchmen by Carter Colon
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=16014

Speaking about a False Move of God thats coming have a listen.

ASubject: about 'the call' and ihop
From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, July 5, 2007 3:44 am
To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxx,

First thank you for having the courage to speak out the truth. As Christians we should guard against teachings that are even a tiny bit off from the truth for my pastor told me that if a pilot sets his course even a milimeter off course in the beginning; at the end of your journey you could arrive in a completely different country than you planned to go.

That being said, I shall add my testimony to what God has placed on my heart about 'the call'. I too had checks in my spirit about Nashville's "the call". At first I was so excited about it because it sounded so awesome to fast and pray with my brothers and sisters for our country....repent for our nation...and be a part of a movement in history. Then I prayed about it and asked for discernment. Every time I asked God if this was His "call." I got a very strong "NO". I then read the brochure they put out for the event and noticed the people on the cover who all have guitars in their hands, appeared to be more angry than praising God. The largest word on the cover was "music" which I found odd.

Once reading about the statement I was deterred most strongly because Jesus was only mentioned a couple of times and the power of His crucifixion and resurrection was not even mentioned. He was more put on an equal level with the prophets Moses, and Elijah. I knew in 1 John 4:1-3 (NIV) it says

1 Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world. 2 This is how we know if they have the Spirit of God: If a person claiming to be a prophet[a] acknowledges that Jesus Christ came in a real body, that person has the Spirit of God. 3 But if someone claims to be a prophet and does not acknowledge the truth about Jesus, that person is not from God. Such a person has the spirit of the Antichrist, which you heard is coming into the world and indeed is already here.

I know this is a really strong statement and I am just applying the statement to what is written about "the call" in what many have just cut and copied onto their blogs and webpages. I also did not like the statement about God giving a "prescription" for pouring out His spirit. Fast for fourty days for fourty years and then God will pour out His spirit? That sounds like we can manipulate God.

My discernment was also preempted by my attending a conference called "Signs and Wonders" at Kansas City IHOP a few months back with Mike Bickle and Bill Johnson. I went with 3 other friends and we all were surprised at the lack of love in the place. For instance during one of the speakers at a packed house a pregnant woman looked for a seat and NO ONE offered her a seat...even the staff? The praise and worship team sounded great but never smiled like some rule governed them not to smile?

My friends and I were rebuked many times in the 24 hour prayer room in very cold ways. If we dozed off we would immediately be awoken. We could not even whisper to one another and the name "JESUS" was hardly used ever in any of their songs...instead they addressed 'the spirit' or 'the river' or something more general. Again, no one smiled and actually one team of worshipers that seemed to have a joyful spirit were replaced with another somber one...it was all very strange.

I got very COLD SHIVERS when Mike Bickle was filmed on stage talking about GOD TV and how companies had paid and were going to pay millions and millions of dollars to place IHOP 24/7 tv in homes all over the world. He had a very prideful spirit and God at that point asked me to leave the room. I was on the second row and could feel Mike's disdain and stares from the crowd as I quietly left the room. Many came at me with harsh words after asking how I could be 'SO JUDGMENTAL'. It was all very strange how defensive the whole movement had become.

I left the conference and came back to my hometown with an opressive spirit on me. I knew it was the same spirit I had seen on others at IHOP and I had to ask forgiveness and be broken from it. It wasn't easy. Looking back I see the spirit as being very devisive to the body of Christ and one of works and not grace.

My friends and I are holding a praise and worship in the park in Atlanta on 7.7.7. and having a feast with the homeless that night. We have been praying for our city and hope for many to show but are leaving that up to God.

So that is MY testimony to MY experience and I pray that EVERYONE involved in "the call" and IHOP would be blessed with disernment and love so that the body of Christ can be of ONE accord.

In Christ's love and the fear of the Lord I write this to you,

xxxxxx


_________________
Colin Murray

 2008/1/12 18:44Profile









 Re:

I would be concerned about this movement, they came to Nashville. I am concerned about the man who heads this, that always shakes and bobs we he talks and prays!

Anything with C. Peter Wagner would make me concerned. He came to a church I used to attend several years ago, when I was a flaky charismatic, he actually said that he can look through the whole day and say, I haven't sinned!! HUH??

Read a book called Counterfeit Revival, by Hank Hannegraff. It mentions C.Peter Wagner.

To me, these events are more to stir emotion, than lifestyle...a pursuit for holiness, righteous and regeneration.

Isaiah 1:7-15

[b]Your country is desolate,

Your cities are burned with fire;

Strangers devour your land in your presence;

And it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.

8 So the daughter of Zion is left as a booth in a vineyard,

As a hut in a garden of cucumbers,

As a besieged city.

9 Unless the Lord of hosts

Had left to us a very small remnant,

We would have become like Sodom,

We would have been made like Gomorrah.

10 Hear the word of the Lord,

You rulers of Sodom;

Give ear to the law of our God,

You people of Gomorrah:

11 "To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me?"

Says the Lord.

"I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams

And the fat of fed cattle.

I do not delight in the blood of bulls,

Or of lambs or goats.

12 "When you come to appear before Me,

Who has required this from your hand,

To trample My courts?

13 Bring no more futile sacrifices;

Incense is an abomination to Me.

The New Moons, the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies-

I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred meeting.

14 Your New Moons and your appointed feasts

My soul hates;

They are a trouble to Me,

I am weary of bearing them.

15 When you spread out your hands,

I will hide My eyes from you;

Even though you make many prayers,

I will not hear.

Your hands are full of blood.[/b]




 2008/1/13 9:41





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