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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : A super highway being built quietly from Mexico to Canada unto the union of nations.

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Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re:

Compliments, few more things. Are you called to be ignoramus of the world events or to watch and examine all things? What is the Spirit talking to you when you read the passages when the Lord is speaking to us about the preceding events before His coming? Do you thing He wanted for us to be ignoramus? Why then so much warnings, so much written? How you read those passages? Do you read them as they will surely not happen in your time? What you expect to happen before Antichrist to come? Do you think he will come with two horns and tail and say I will be the Antichrist that is written in the bible? Isn't the bible warns us the he is the father of the lie? Lie.

Compliments, do you have e-sword? Try to study the word delusion G1406.

 2008/1/5 11:21Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4501


 Re:

Hi HE_Reigns...

Yes, I've read all about Ron Paul's opposition to this highway. Through his rhetoric, he is making it into a matter of "national sovereignty." I suspect that he might be using his rhetoric to garner support against its construction because it does not help his district in Texas. His district is not included in the proposed location of the highway. Suddenly, allegations surface about "secret meetings" meant to turn North America into a "one-government union." Sadly, this is too often representative of the way that politics work. Viable projects are considered “pork barrel projects” or “threats to national security.” Abortion rights, mandatory media ratings and opposition to a national identification card are relegated as “threats to a right of privacy.”

Anyone with a basic knowledge of the Constitution realizes that these rumors could never take place. There aren't any "secret meetings" in which a president (or even Congress) can cause the United States to sacrifice sovereignty to another nation. A "treaty" can be created for the purpose of trade, but it is subject to the scrutiny of the Congress, the Court and voters.

The bottom line is that this "secret highway" is simply NOT a secret. The "Amero" is NOT a coin of currency. No "European Union" type of organization is planned with the exception of possible trade purposes (which could replace or augment the already existent trade organizations).

If you read the first post again, you will notice that there is quite a bit of interpretation built upon these rumors:

Quote:
From what I have heard it has been denied by many politician's as crazy and yet is now already being built in Texas.

Untrue. The highway is not a secret and has been discussed openly in Texas for years.
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The story is that Bush is making secret deals with the elite of Canada and Mexico to build this trade freeqay and that is why the government is not so worried about immigration because they want to unite anyways

The “story” is unsubstantiated. “Secret deals?” The government is “not so worried about [illegal]immigration?” And based upon these unfounded allegations, someone feels comfortable to suggest that Canada, Mexico and the United States is willing to give up national sovereignty?
Quote:
Even with one currency the "Amero".

Untrue. The “Amero” does not exist as currency. It is simply an artistic coin designed by Daniel Carr.
Quote:
They want to be like the European Union and unite as they did. And, for all the new world order buff's this would be another step toward one world government.

Who?!? Who wants to “be like the European Union” and “unite as they did?” What evidence is this based upon? NAFTA is simply a trade treaty that deals primarily with the removal of tariffs.
Quote:
Also in the plans is a national id card that will even have a radio wave frequency chip. This card will in turn take away our Constitutional privacies ect due to an overriding of the Constitution because of "terrorist threat".

Really? A “radio wave frequency?” Do you have any information to verify your claims? All the information that I have seen is a desire to create a national ID card that would look and act like a driver’s license and would simply replace our social security card. It is meant to stop illegal immigrants from easily stealing identification. This is actually a contradiction to the argument that the “government is not so worried about immigration.”

Do you see how interpretation of such rumor can create conspiracy theories? We should be careful about presenting these claims in such a manner. Why? Because someone else might take them and run. Then, we may find ourselves guilty of not just spreading gossip, but providing such gossip to others.

I realize that davidt was NOT creating allegations, but opening these rumors for discussion. He correctly identified these rumors as “hearsay.” Yet when these things are exposed as “conspiracy theories,” we are “warned” or asked to almost defend our rationale for exposing them. In other words, conspiracy theorists often force the burden of proof upon those who debunk them, rather than the other way around.

:-(


_________________
Christopher

 2008/1/5 12:15Profile
Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re:

ccchhhrrriiisss, I would like to ask you few questions regarding these subjects. I would be glad if you share clearly your beliefs on this.

Do you see right now the kings and nations moving forward into a New World Order (New wordily kingdom on which the Antichrist will reign and persecute the believers no matter what nationality) and in real conspiracy against the Holy One of Israel and His Anointed One? If yes, how do you see the role of USA in all picture? I am asking this because every time when the wicked ways of your nation is exposed you are raising to defend with official politically correct excuses. And you are telling that we should believe only the official sources ([i]don't forget who is the father of lies and who is 'the god of this world'[/i]), while ignoring the things happening silently toward uniting of the nations and 'building the tower of babel' in direct rebellion toward Jesus Christ.

But please don't answer this from pure politically perspective, but as a heavenly citizen, as a man who is 'looking for for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God'. Looking on the spiritual background of the events and things going on in the world today. Or you think that there is no spiritual background of the events taking place now in the world?

Thank you in advance for your time.

Kire

 2008/1/5 13:05Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4501


 Re:

Hi Kire…

I will do my best to answer your questions in a manner that is clear enough to not be misconstrued or misinterpreted.

Quote:
Do you see right now the kings and nations moving forward into a New World Order (New wordily kingdom on which the Antichrist will reign and persecute the believers no matter what nationality) and in real conspiracy against the Holy One of Israel and His Anointed One?


First of all, there aren’t many “kings” left on Earth. Most of the “kings” left on Earth are mere figurative puppets rather than ruling monarchs. Do I see the nations moving forward into a “New World Order” as you have defined? This is a double-sided question. Yes, I am aware that the nations of this world will eventually err on the side of the Antichrist. Currently? I don’t believe that there is an underlying conspiracy by the nations of this world to follow the Antichrist and persecute believers. Why? The nations of this world are already damned to Hell! Because the people of this world exist apart from a desire to know and embrace the Creator of all things, they are already a part of this system. That has never changed. Is there a physical conspiracy where individuals are hoping and wanting to prepare this world for the Antichrist? I don’t know. I feel that this work has been ongoing since Satan fell, and is primarily accomplished in heavenly realms.
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If yes, how do you see the role of USA in all picture?

I don’t believe that there is a secret American society of individuals trying to cause the world to fall into the hands of the Antichrist. Rather, there are individuals and groups that work for what they feel to be helpful to their own end which may or may not be utilized by the Antichrist after he is revealed. Then again, we aren’t certain that America will play any such role in future events. Why? America is not undeniably implicated in Biblical prophecy. America may or may not exist by the time the Antichrist takes power. None of us know the specific future of this country. Is America headed for a third “Great Awakening” – a revival by which all others will fall short – or are we destined to fall further into futility? America may or may not be the great Babylonian whore of Revelation. Some are already willing to crown America as such (and have even called everyone from Henry Kissinger to Ronald Reagan to President Bush as the Antichrist). Yet we don’t know whether or not we will have one last, great move of God in this nation.
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I am asking this because every time when the wicked ways of your nation is exposed you are raising to defend with official politically correct excuses.

This is disappointing, brother. I am not defending the “wicked ways” of my nation with “politically correct excuses.” This is simply untrue, and you certainly should refrain from making such ridiculous comments in the future. I do not defend the “wicked ways” of [u]anyone[/u]. I am merely attempting to clarify between fact and speculation. It may appear that I am defending this nation when I am actually trying to make a distinction between fact and fiction. When someone accuses President Bush of being a part of some great, evil conspiracy (as has happened several times in the past) that goes as far as slandering his motives or questioning his claims of salvation, then I feel an obligation to correctly differentiate between truth and opinion. Christians should be ABOVE such nonsense! Yes, we are not a part of this world or its systems. But why do we feel obliged to slander people, ideas and things in which we do not fully understand? Even Michael the Archangel was not guilty of this (Jude 1:8-10).
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And you are telling that we should believe only the official sources (don't forget who is the father of lies and who is 'the god of this world'), while ignoring the things happening silently toward uniting of the nations and 'building the tower of babel' in direct rebellion toward Jesus Christ.


This would be good advice [u]IF[/u] individuals wouldn’t be prone to attributing things to conspiracies that are based upon suspicious rumors. In this case, brother davidt brought into a discussion things that were simply rumor from supposedly “official sources” (with a little added commentary). Why are we prone to accept “official sources” only if they verify our own suspicions or beliefs about future events? In the case of this thread, these rumors were incorrect in three aspects. It is not wrong to correct those things. We should NEVER be afraid of truth.
Quote:
But please don't answer this from pure politically perspective, but as a heavenly citizen, as a man who is 'looking for for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God'. Looking on the spiritual background of the events and things going on in the world today. Or you think that there is no spiritual background of the events taking place now in the world?


As a heavenly citizen, I view ALL THINGS from the aspect of my relationship with Christ. I cannot separate myself from my faith, for in Him I live, move and have my being. I am UNITED with Christ, and my entire world revolves around my fellowship with Him and His Word. I certainly believe that this world is headed for a terrible end as indicated in the Scriptures. However, we need to be careful about attributing things falsely to underground conspiracies. If we aren’t careful, we will become suspicious of EVERYTHING. We can attribute every decision by the government (including the building of a 10-lane highway) as part of some conspiracy to prepare the nation for the Antichrist. Do you see the problem with this? We should be extremely careful of rumors. We shouldn’t utter things that can be construed as slander – especially if we are limited in our understanding of such things. We should be eager to find the truth in a matter before giving credibility to rumors, gossip or conspiracy theories.

:-(


_________________
Christopher

 2008/1/5 15:28Profile









 Re:

[b]

Quote:
Ccchhhrrriiisss wrote:
[i]So then, I would warn others too. Be careful…very careful…that our statements about government (including individuals working in the government) are based upon truth. Otherwise, our statements could find us bearing false witness against our neighbor.[/i]


Quote:
I suspect that he [Ron Paul] might be using his rhetoric to garner support against its construction because it does not help his district in Texas. His district is not included in the proposed location of the highway. Suddenly, allegations surface about "secret meetings" meant to turn North America into a "one-government union." [/b]



Chris, I can only answer the first two paragraphs of your post to me, because the rest of that post is addressing the other post by the other member.

Firstly - I don't question your Love for Jesus in the least. You need not defend your love for Him - I believe that and always have since we first met.

This one subject is just a blip on the radar, compared to the whole view of Global events, but to call everything "Conspiracy Theories", even the link you gave yourself, is sounding more strange then some of the actual 'rumors' I've heard. After a while - one wonders and worries about hearing "Conspiracy Theory [CT]" being said so often and someone like Ron Paul and the co-sponsors being accused of --- [i]'whatever'[/i] - despite what you said above in that first quote.


[b]Quote of - H.CON.RES.487
Title: Expressing the sense of Congress that the United States should not engage in the construction of a North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) Superhighway System or enter into a North American Union with Mexico and Canada. [/b] http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:h.con.res.00487:


I knew this highway wasn't a 'secret' from most Texans and others for over two years that I've heard about this on the radio from interviews with these Honorable people who drafted [url=http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.CON.RES.487:][b]H.Con.Res 487[/b],[/url] {Link}

And from the article you posted. [i]"The real issue is national sovereignty. Once again, decisions that affect millions of Americans are not being made by those Americans themselves, or even by their elected representatives in Congress. 'Instead, a handful of elites use their government connections to bypass national legislatures and ignore our Constitution-- which expressly grants Congress the sole authority to regulate international trade.'
The ultimate goal is not simply a superhighway, but an integrated North American Union--complete with a "currency", a "cross-national bureaucracy", and virtually borderless travel within the Union. "Like the European Union", a North American Union would represent another step toward the abolition of national sovereignty altogether.' [/i]
http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2006/tst103006.htm


Brother Chris, is Ron Paul and these others liars, nuts or conspiracy theorists ?

[b]CO-SPONSORS[/b]

Rep Cubin, Barbara [WY] - 12/7/2006
Rep Jones, Walter B., Jr. [NC-3] - 9/28/2006
Rep Kingston, Jack [GA-1] - 12/7/2006
Rep Paul, Ron [TX-14] - 9/28/2006
Rep Tancredo, Thomas G. [CO-6] - 9/28/2006
Rep Wamp, Zach [TN-3] - 12/7/2006

Whether you believe that a American Union was or is in mind, is not worth all of this, in my opinion - because it was the plan of the Trilateral Commission to have the globe split into three Unions from their inception - but things (Biblically) have accelerated to the point that, with just one Crisis - these three Unions won't be needed -- we'll just go straight to Global and the Chip - (BBC) ---- and what our fear is, is that you may not see that we are living in the last days - when things have been done and are being done by Globalists and not just for "trade" purposes --- that these folks within our system, are implementing changes to bring us into the NWO, which will be the Biblical one world government.
I don't believe Ron Paul and the others are liars, jealous, nuts or CTs - and I do know what the CFR and Trilateral Commission and UN were set up for, from their own writings also.

I wouldn't care at all about any of these things at all, if it weren't for the fact that it's all very Biblical and people should know the times we're living in and even be Bereans, if need be, at thomas.loc.gov. And I only cared to discuss this because you are a Brother and Family to me/us and I care that none of us go to 'extremes' in either direction.

His Love to you.

 2008/1/5 16:17
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4501


 Re:

Hi HE_Reigns…

Quote:
Whether you believe that a American Union was or is in mind, is not worth all of this, in my opinion - because it was the plan of the Trilateral Commission to have the globe split into three Unions from their inception - but things (Biblically) have accelerated to the point that, with just one Crisis - these three Unions won't be needed -- we'll just go straight to Global and the Chip - (BBC) ---- and what our fear is, is that you may not see that we are living in the last days - when things have been done and are being done by Globalists and not just for "trade" purposes --- that these folks within our system, are implementing changes to bring us into the NWO, which will be the Biblical one world government.
I don't believe Ron Paul and the others are liars, jealous, nuts or CTs - and I do know what the CFR and Trilateral Commission and UN were set up for, from their own writings also.


…and this is precisely the point. Like David said, “[i]All men are liars[/i].” I do not trust my government one way or the other. However, I am not going to jump on the conspiracy theory bandwagon either.

I’ve had the opportunity to sit and meet with several members of the government (including those who sit on that infamously dreaded and often maligned Trilateral Commission). You know what? They are not made up of the most intelligent or fearsome men in the world. It is simply a private group of “experts” and “important” individuals meant to discuss international relations in regard to the three democratic economic powers when it was created (Europe, Japan and the US). Do you know how much official power the Trilateral Commission has in US politics? NONE. They only have the power of [i]influence[/i]. Contrary to the allegations that come from sources like the John Birch Society, the Trilateral Commission does not embrace a one-world government. They have actually been forced to provide disclaimers because of the slander from persistent conspiracy theorists. In fact, I have never seen anything that would suggest that this is their goal. Yet it is repeated over and over again by individuals who fail to provide credible evidence to substantiate such conspiracy theories. It makes me wonder how many of these people have actually spoken to or corresponded with members of the TC?

However, I didn’t write my posts to talk about suspicions concerning the Trilateral Commission, the extent of a supposed “New World Order,” or other conspiracy theories. I simply responded to Brother David’s initial posts concerning hearsay. He presented some information, asked for comments, and I responded.

You need not worry about whether or not I “see” that we are living in the “last days.” If you have ever read any of my posts, you will realize that I know that the coming of the Lord is at hand. But the fact remains that I DON’T CARE when or how this takes place. To live is Christ and to die is gain. As I have stated constantly in the past, we should be ready to depart this world at any time. Our sole objective in this world is to know and fellowship with our Lord – and to introduce Him to others. We have been living in the last days since at least Acts chapter 2. We should already be living as if we are ready to meet the Lord and stand in judgment. In other words, we should already be prepared. If the governments of this world choose to gather believers and kill us tomorrow – what should I care? As long as I am walking closely with my Lord, I don’t care how the end will come. Yes, I am aware of the signs and various interpretations of how the end might come.

However, we still have a responsibility to be truthful when presenting such information in a public manner. This is just as severely pertinent as those who make prophetic claims. Such claims are either grounded in truth or myth. In this case, there was no “secret highway.” The “Amero” coin is just an already-debunked urban legend. And no proof exists about supposed “secret meetings” in regard to a one-government North American Union. Alas -- we should not at all get carried away by the various winds of conspiracy or rumor. We shouldn’t even be alarmed by those things that we hear. Yes, we should make an effort to not be ignorant of the days (that they might take us like a thief). But is that what we are concerned about? Is someone seriously compelled to warn me that my entire eternity might be in jeopardy for not jumping on the bandwagon of conspiracy theories (for that is what they are)?

I suppose that I answer these questions often. This is not because I am defending the “wicked ways” of this government (as Kire suggested). I simply feel that if we are going to share our beliefs concerning the government, officials, politicians, organizations, economists and even nations, we shouldn’t be upset if they are subjected to scrutiny. In fact, we should be delighted that others are willing to “test everything” and hold on to the good (I Thessalonians 5:21). In regards to this, I have an educational background related to such matters. I’ve literally broken bread and prayed with some important men in government. That is why it is so ridiculous to hear some of the wild conspiracy theories about some of these individuals.

I suppose that I fear that many believers are looking for evidence that will verify the manner in which they believe that the world will end. A few months ago, someone emailed me and told me that they knew (because GOD TOLD HIM over 30 years ago) that Henry Kissinger is the Antichrist. As a result, he looks at Bible prophecy through a lens that is clouded accordingly. He closely follows the movement of Henry Kissinger. He actually proclaims this information as truth to whoever will listen (he calls it a “warning”). What will happen when Kissinger dies (he is nearly 85 years old now)? His entire view of Bible prophecy over the past 30 years has been based upon a misconception. While he will probably feel relieved that he was wrong, I imagine that he will feel rather foolish as well. But will he be able to gather all of those individuals that he “warned” and admit to them that he really was spreading what amounts to slander about an individual that he has never met?

In the end, the end will come. How will it come? Well, we currently look through a glass darkly. We view Bible prophecy through a veil of our human limitations. As believers, we need not be afraid of the end. Even if we are privileged to give up our lives (even through torture) for our faith, death has still lost its sting. Our faith should not be moved because of someone loudly proclaiming something (right or wrong) about the end. Yet it is still our responsibility to distinguish between those things that are undeniable fact and those things that are merely speculation.

:-(


_________________
Christopher

 2008/1/5 18:03Profile









 Re:

Tears of Joys said:

Quote:
Hello Compliments, your mindset (I am not commenting the specific things) reminds me of what Peter wrote in his second letter:

When were the last days? I am scoffing at men today who are trying to force what has already happened. The last days were in the Apostles day. Now if you were to say that we are in the last days for the United States of America, then yes, I would agree with you. And before any great nation falls there is much decadence and ungodliness, history reveals this and the word of God confirms it.

 2008/1/5 20:12









 Re:

Well Brother Chris, ya didn't answer my post - but that's alright - this subject is one of those that will answer itself, so I don't want to break fellowship over it - that's for sure - it's depressing to read this many posts or these type replies - so I'll bounce back off to read the things that make my heart sing on other threads.

All His Best to you.

 2008/1/5 21:16
Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re:

Hello Chris, first of all thank you for your time and the response.

Although I didn't hear much new that I didn't know of your opinion on these matters, it was better to be read in good order. Thank you.

I will just comment few things, and if it is necessary we could continue on PM.

When I said that you are defending the wicked ways of your nation, I didn't mean that you are doing this intentionally and in awareness of that. I believe that you are very sincere man and sincere in what you are doing. But that doesn't mean that you cannot be wrong in your estimation and perception of the things around you. And some things may be of much greater importance than you think they are. Would you allow such possibility?

Quote:
America may or may not be the great Babylonian whore of Revelation.



That means you accept that there is a possibility of this. Will it make difference for example if it is? What will be the differences and responsibilities? And the whole perception of the things?

I personally don't claim is it is or not. I am examining. Only what I know is that it is not the 'chosen' nation and 'savior' of the world, as some movies are representing.

Quote:
Some are already willing to crown America as such (and have even called everyone from Henry Kissinger to Ronald Reagan to President Bush as the Antichrist).



Brother, what some others have said about american presidents it's not the subject of discussion here. If someone of us participating in this thread here have said that, you are in full right to use the quote and speak against it.

Quote:
First of all, there aren’t many “kings” left on Earth. Most of the “kings” left on Earth are mere figurative puppets rather than ruling monarchs.



I thought you would understand that when I said kings, I mean the heads of the nations, those who rule the nations. When it is written in the Bible kings for the future, surely it doesn't mean today's office of the kings. But the kings of the bible times have been today's so called presidents.

Quote:
Is there a physical conspiracy where individuals are hoping and wanting to prepare this world for the Antichrist? I don’t know.




Quote:
Yes, I am aware that the nations of this world will eventually err on the side of the Antichrist. Currently? [b]I don’t believe that there is an underlying conspiracy by the nations[/b] of this world to follow the Antichrist and persecute believers.



Quote:
Why? The nations of this world are already damned to Hell! Because the people of this world exist apart from a desire to know and embrace the Creator of all things, they are already a part of this system. That has never changed. [b]Is there a physical conspiracy[/b] where individuals are hoping and wanting to prepare this world for the Antichrist? [b]I don’t know.[/b]



Brother, this is honest answer.

Quote:
I feel that this work has been ongoing since Satan fell, and is primarily accomplished in heavenly realms.



There is no doubt that it is ongoing since the Satan's fell. But the fact is that this will not be eternally ongoing, there will be time of culmination of the plans and a final end.

1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Paul even said 'ye have no need unto you' and then he continues what these times will be. In order to recognize them. The Holy Spirit was very careful of compiling every word in the Scripture. And you how much is written about the 'last days' and 'end times' and the 'signs'. This is no by accident. And if God decided to be so, that means that this is very important thing for examining the times and seasons.

We are ordered to watch and we have responsibility to do that.

Quote:
In the end, the end will come. How will it come? Well, we currently look through a glass darkly. We view Bible prophecy through a veil of our human limitations.



Chris, that's not how the Scriptures teach us how to look into the end times. Some of the things I said in the above comments. The context of we 'look through a glass darkly' it's something else. Paul there makes comparison between what we cannot understand here on earth, and we will understand it fully on the heavens.

But the subject of the end times and prophecies is not even similar to this. The prophecies will be fulfilled here on earth. And therefore we must look for the times and season. Paul says also, which is very important:

1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Verses before that Paul is describing one of the sings of the coming of our Lord.

Jesus also said:

"ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?"

As the Israelites was must for them to discern the signs of His first coming, also we must discern the signs of His second coming. Regarding this He said:

Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

We have the book of Revelation to show us the things which shall pass here on earth.

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;

That means that there was a need that we as His servants know the things which will come. So we must not be ignorant. We commandment to learn the lesson and discern the times. Why?

Because:

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Note here, it says [i]no man[/i]. It means that there will be men that will deceive other man. And if he says 'take heed' that means that it is possible to be deceived.

This word deceive is mentioned four times in Mat. 24.

Quote:
I’ve had the opportunity to sit and meet with several members of the government (including those who sit on that infamously

dreaded and often maligned Trilateral Commission). You know what? They are not made up of the most intelligent or fearsome

men in the world. It is simply a private group of “experts” and “important” individuals meant to discuss international

relations in regard to the three democratic economic powers when it was created (Europe, Japan and the US).



Quote:
In regards to this, I have an educational background related to such matters. I’ve literally broken bread and prayed with some important men in government. That is why it is so ridiculous to hear some of the wild conspiracy theories about some of these individuals.



Chris, you have said this other time also. (I think it was that you have interviewed some man from the government). The fact you have sit with some of these men from the government and you have talked with them, doesn't mean anything in a sense that you know the truth. What if these men are deceived also? I would repeat the words of Jesus again, 'Take heed that no man deceive you.'

That's why I don't believe that we as christians, our place is not in the politics of this world.

I asked you in one thread, are you by profession politician or something similar. I didn't get answer, maybe you haven't seen the question.

Chris, I appreciate your zeal for truth. But I am afraid of the prejudice that you have, didn't allow you to see the other side of the coin. Let us never forget that the 'god of this world' is the father of lie. I am from other country you are from other. From kids they have taught us that everything what the official are making is the best. We are the best. Our government is the best. Movies, Media, Newspapers, Education from babies has taught us and controlled not HOW to think, but WHAT to think.

I have lived in a communist country. As a kids we have gave oaths that we will not go right or left from the path of the communist president. We had pictures from him in every home. And thousands other things that we have believed that are truth, but they were just one big LIE. We can see now. After the fall of the communism in the 1990. We saw that we have lived in BIG LIE. Now seeing the things from this perspective, it is unbelievable to believe how we believed in such LIES. We have been like a puppets. Do you know what was happening when someone will expose those lies, of course they have calling this 'rumors'. And it happened that these 'rumors' to be truth. Just be reminded of the christians under the communism. Be reminded of the stories of Wurmbrand in Romania. Jails, beatings and much more.

Now you will say, wait a min, it's not so here, we live in a land of freedom and liberty.
The question is, is this true?
I will not talk about the past, but I want to say few things about the near history and today.
I'm coming to believe that this 'freedom' is more dangerous than a communism. Why? Because of the mind shaping, but now with different methods that are making false security. These are more dangerous methods. Communist said, there is no God, here they say, there is a God and He is on our side and He is in favour with us. That's why we are the best, the mightiest, the most beautiful, and we cannot be wrong.

And from a babies these teaching are pressed in the kids minds, through family, media, newspapers, movies (how many movies I have seen in my former life, how our nation is the best, the mightiest heroes, every time we are the righteous, saving the world), public education (on of the most important tool for shaping minds), etc

And all this in the name of God and even using His name. And in this way one false reality is molding. That you think that you are the 'chosen' one and you serve the to the right God, but in reality you are not either 'chosen', you are not even serving the right God, but false one. But in this way is creating one false security and satisfying the conscience and making you blind for the reality. This kind of environment and system is making you blind to the real things around you and putting you into big sleep for the truth around you. That's how you are unabled to see some things that for others are very much obvious. And this kind of environment produces also fear, and when you oppose the lies it is very much possible
to be judged as spreading 'rumors'.

This kind of environment is producing also directly (under control) or inderectly a false christianity and a false Christ, which is an idol.

In the days of Elijah, there was a very clear:

And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, [b]How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him.[/b] And the people answered him not a word.

Why I said that I'm coming to believe that this kind of 'freedom' that is producing this kind of christianity can be more dangerous?

Because the wicked one is very wise in his plans, and now instead of persecute the christians like in the communist countries where he saw that the church become just stronger, the blood became seed, now on the scene came false christ, an idol, not the real one. That is producing false security, that you think you are saved and serve God, but in reality you are in a big sleep. Dream that every thing is ok. And when someone is saying the truth, you respond with 'I am tired of negative things'. 'Let me live my life' 'I have right to this, to that...'

And the whole mindset of the society, 'I have freedom' 'I have freedom to vote, to chose my leader' 'I have freedom of education' etc etc While on the same time you are slave, but you think that you have freedom. In the communism you know that you don't have 'freedom', and if you are in jail you are in jail. Here you have 'freedom' but actually you are slave to the system.

What we desperately need today is renewed mind. There are many born from the Spirit christians, but they are still without renewed minds.

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: [b]but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,[/b] that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

We must renew our mind through and with the word of God. Otherwise we are in great danger.


Just look how the system is made (not just in USA). Every need of God is eliminated. You don't need God because there is health system and they will take care for you. You have insurance. You have every month money, food, clothes. You have everything. And the need of God is eliminated. Without knowingly, the system is eliminating God from the scene, and the state is becoming god. And you think that all these things are benefits of the society, and not realizing that those very things has removed God slowly but surely from the throne from your heart, and they put the system and the state. And in the same time you are told that 'we are nation under God'. But the real question is, which God?

Literal picture from Revelation

I am rich,

and increased with goods,

and have need of nothing;

and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked

This kind of christianity is ready to declare that everyone who said once in his lifetime that is born again that he is truly such, without seeing the fruits. That's the way to be exposed to even greater delusion, if you believe him.

This kind of system and christianity is also producing so much false teachers and prophets, who are spreading this kind of gospel to every part of the world. So called missionaries spreading not the gospel of Christ, but some culture and system. I have seen many, they are on my town also. The harm that they have made to the gospel is indescribable.


But, there are still prophets and real teachers who warn the body of Christ. Who warn of the great falling away and the apostacy and the great sleeping. The most listened compilation on this site, the revival hymn is beginning with the words, "The church of Jesus Christ is large sleeping today, saying Please don't wake me up, I want to sleep ON" When you sleep, you are dreaming and this is not the reality. Reality is something else.

[url=http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=4caaed33c36b1b5fc2cb&page=1&viewtype=&category=mr]How can you sleep?[/url]

Brother Greg put this compilation some time ago. This man is saying:

"You can't say that you were not warned,
you cannot say that there was not some Noah that didn't preach to you 120 years, but you have ignored saying, WHO IS THAT MAN, oh that's just Noah, he is going to the church house, that's just Noah, he is always talking NEGATIVE, that's just Noah"

I believe that there are many, many Noah's today. Many are on this site. And God is using this site, I believe in this. To preach the serioussnes of the Gospel and warn the people and the church to wake up from the sleep.

I heard recently in one occasion Ravenhill saying:

"I don't believe the greatest enemy to USA is Russia, I believe the greatest enemy to USA is GOD"

How do we respond to this prophet's call? Is this hard word to us? If we think that this prophet had the mind of God, and what he says here is truth, then we are in big trouble.

I am afraid not to be truth for some of us this:

Eze 33:31 And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee as my people, [b]and they hear thy words, but they will not do them:[/b] for with their mouth they shew much love, but their heart goeth after their covetousness.
Eze 33:32 And, lo, thou art unto them [b]as a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant voice,[/b] and can play well on an instrument: for [u]they hear thy words, but they do them not. [/u]
Eze 33:33 And when this cometh to pass, (lo, it will come,) then shall they know that a prophet hath been among them.

I have heard that the talk of the end times is producing fear and negativism etc Why to produce fear? Why to be afraid of truth? Isn't our Lord coming soon to see Him? Or we want to enjoy one year more in our comforts and luxuries? In our sleep? In our pride? In our material goods? One year more of fleshly comfort? That's why we don't want to hear someone talking about the end days. What is more gloriously than to know that you will meet your Saviour?

I would like to finish the one post by brother Jim (jimdied2sin), who went pretty unnoticed:

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=20575&forum=35

I want to write something that will make me very unpopular. I believe that we (among the revival crowd) have a false sense that we are the repairers of the wall, when in fact many are on the verge of being handed over to the greater darkness and reprobation.

I wonder how many have come here, listened to these messages, listened to Ravenhill, Wilkerson, Washer, Tozer, etc and haven't even made an effort to scale down their lifestyles so they could feed the poor or support missions, I wonder how many continue in willful sin through unbelief although their ears have heard that Christ came to purchase for himself a free and spotless bride. Brother I wonder how many here on the forum spend more time praying then watching TV. I wonder how many, as one dear brother wrote recently, are moved from their beds by the Spirit at night into a closet or bathroom to weep before God.

How long can we waver between two opinions?

If entertainment is God then serve entertainment.

[i]If the comfort of your flesh is God then serve the comfort of your flesh.[/i]

If talking about revival is God then continue talking about the thing that you have [b]no intention on ever paying the price[/b] for anyway.

[b]If the American dream is God then continue to serve the American dream.[/b]

If meaningless church activities are God then continue on in them

[b]If self preservation is God then continue to save your life, when in fact you are losing it.[/b]

If unrighteous mammon is God then continue to serve and take comfort in unrighteous mammon

[b]But if the Lord, He is God, then turn to Him with all of your heart today. Whoever tries to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for the sake of Christ will find it![/b]


I would say Amen.

Chris this was as respond to you, but I continued to write generally. So, not all sentences are directly to you. I hope you will understand what is to you what not. Probably this was my longest post on SI, it took hours and forgive me if the thoughts are not so much in order.

Your brother from Macedonia,
Kire

 2008/1/6 1:23Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Dear brother Kire,


I think Chris is concerned that we do not repeat things that are not true, or that will slander the reputation of others. Or maybe, if I could put it this way, of drawing waters from a polluted stream.




_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/6 8:25Profile





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