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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Eze 39: a question

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 Re:

http://bsimmons.wordpress.com/2007/01/30/splitting-the-evangelicals-from-israel/

Linn, here is another great article. I hope this helps in understanding.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

 2008/1/1 18:50
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi Jeannette,


"Of course, there are certainties,..."


But those things are not being discussed here.


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/1 19:56Profile









 Re:

Quote:

ChrisJD wrote:
Hi Jeannette,


"Of course, there are certainties,..."


But those things are not being discussed here.

That's basically what I meant!

Love in Him

Jeannette

 2008/1/1 20:21
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Jeannette,




"We have been over this same ground again and again yet you still won't receive the truth of it!"


Like this?


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/1 20:32Profile
ChrisJD
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Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Or how about this from Katy-Did,




"The Church is not going to overthrow Satan, or put an end to death. The Church is not the smiting stone used as some dominion power over the earth to knuckle under....but when or if you do see such things...this IS anti-christ...sitting in the temple as though it were God."



No certainties. Like that?


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/1 20:44Profile
ChrisJD
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Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Dorcas, I looked into the phrase you were talking about earlier in the thread and I think this is similar isn't it?


"The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God."


- Isaiah chapter 52 verse 10(KJV)


In chapter 53 it asks to whom is the Arm of the Lord Revealed. According to Strong's the word translated revealed is


H1540
גּלה
gâlâh
gaw-law'
A primitive root; to denude (especially in a disgraceful sense); by implication to exile (captives being usually stripped); figuratively to reveal: - + advertise, appear, bewray, bring, (carry, lead, go) captive (into captivity), depart, disclose, discover, exile, be gone, open, X plainly, publish, remove, reveal, X shamelessly, shew, X surely, tell, uncover.



It looks similar to the word in chapter 52 and verse 10 also.



Chris


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/1 20:58Profile
ChrisJD
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Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
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 Re:

Also, 2 Corinthians 6:17 appears to be a qoutation of Isaiah 52:11.


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/1 21:24Profile









 Re: Eze 39: a question


Hi Chris,

Thanks for joining the discussion. Your input is appreciated.

Actually, it was David (psalm1) who raised this question:

He said

Quote:
I got a tape from a rabbi that said any time you see "and the Lord bare his right arm" that it is judgement against the gentiles.
I never did look into it.
Have you ever heard of this?

Because I hadn't ever noticed this and had never studied it, I didn't comment. But I have to say it's not how it reads in the context of the verse you quote (Isa 52:10) There are other mentions of God's 'arm' also, which are equally important.

Having come from an extremely Israel-sympathetic Christian background, it is only recently - mainly since The Passion was branded as 'anti-Semitic' - that I've begun to take note of the turmoil in the world around things to do with being Jewish today.

I've always been under the impression that evangelism was the Church's mission, and no-one would be saved in the end except Christians. To imagine an end before the return of Christ, or, before one's own natural (or unnatural) death, is definitely alien to my background theology...

... that is, the theology I'm trying to perfect ... ;-)

 2008/1/1 21:48









 Re: Eze 39: a question


Hi Katy,

Since your last post in which you are very specific about how you believe history will progress, I am clearer about why I don't always make sense of your posts.

Certainly, you are not basing [i]everything[/i] you state on your own Bible study and God's revealation to you personally, or perhaps you would be less (not more) ready to say what you think you know. That's what happens to me, anyway.

At the beginning of this thread, you drew my attention to the context of the verse for which I had asked clarification. When I went back and read Eze 38 and 39 through, I could see what you meant. Still, my verse come just after a change of focus, from the battle to a promise to Israel, which additionally, I can see within the context of their regularly drifting away from God, it was kind of Him to remind them that He was still [i][b]for[/b][/i] them. Therefore, in the context that I orginally came across the verse, it does make better sense than in the isolation I found it.

Having said all that, perhaps this is an obsolete comment. I would like to think so.

Quote:
You are leading *I believe* many people astray into a false sense of peace with scripture you have tried to manipulate to your liking. Not only here but "Who Killed Jesus" thread as well.

In the other thread, though, there is nothing wrong with the discussion I have raised, even though you may be unfamiliar with the reasoning I'm putting forward. My comments are scriptural, thoughtful and hopefully, thought-provoking.

Quote:
I would suggest a Good prophetic teacher who knows the book of Daniel, and how it correlates with Revelation, Israel, and the anti-christ.

I'd rather pray as I read scripture, thanks, and listen to Spirit-filled expositors.

Quote:
The anti-christ will make a covenant of Hell with Israel to allow the rebuilding of the temple, and after 3 1/2 years turn on Israel.

Is this what you have learned from a 'Good prophetic teacher', or can you explain it to me from scripture?

Quote:
What I'd really like to know is, Why are you bothered by these things?

I see it as a function of having been grafted into the olive root.

I see there will be a great victory for Israel against Israel's enemies - the massed Gentile powers of all origins. Is this Armageddon? Why not? What I don't understand about the way to talk of this time of victory (as far as I can make sense of it), is how the victorious Jews who don't know the Lord, are going to be saved, if all the Christians have already been taken out of the picture?

Quote:
Why do you insist on taking scripture about future promises to Israel and apply them to Gentiles wrapped in peaches and cream...misleading into false hope?

I have slowly come to understand why you think this, and also, I am beginning to understand the simplicity of the Jews who know God having their own physical country in fulfillment of God's promises to bring them back from the nations where they've been sequestered. But, leaving aside your belief in pre-trib rapture, I don't see Christ's return as a moment for conversions, but rather, for wrath against those who have rejected Him, both Jews and Gentiles alike.

About 'false hope'... what hope is there outside Christ?

Quote:
I also believe the Mystery of God, Colossians 2 and Revelation 10:7 will have been removed from the earth at this time.

Do you mean, this 'mystery'?

Ephesians 3:1 - 13 (Just one sentence!)
For this cause, I Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you the nations, if, indeed, ye did hear of the dispensation of the grace of God that was given to me in regard to you, that by revelation He made known to me the secret, according as I wrote before in few [i]words[/i] -- in regard to which ye are able, reading [i]it[/i], to understand my knowledge in the secret of the Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it was now revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit-- that the nations be fellow-heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of His promise in the Christ, through the good news, of which I became a ministrant, according to the gift of the grace of God that was given to me, according to the working of His power; to me--the less than the least of all the saints--was given this grace, among the nations to proclaim good news--the untraceable riches of the Christ, and to cause all to see what [i]is[/i] the fellowship of the secret that hath been hid from the ages in God, who the all things did create by Jesus Christ, that there might be made known now to the principalities and the authorities in the heavenly [i]places[/i], through the assembly, the manifold wisdom of God, according to a purpose of the ages, which He made in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have the freedom and the access in confidence through the faith of him, wherefore, I ask [i]you[/i] not to faint in my tribulations for you, which is your glory. (Young's Literal Translation)

This is interesting..... Because of the mention of the prophets in Rev 10:7, I looked up 'mystery' in Youngs and the KVJ expecting it to throw up something from the Old Testament I'd never heard before. But it didn't.

Search Results: KJV

Mark 4:11
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables:

Ephesians 1:9
having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Search results: Young

Mark 4:11
and he said to them, `To you it hath been given to know the secret of the reign of God, but to those who are without, in similes are all the things done;

Ephesians 1:9
having made known to us the secret of His will, according to His good pleasure, that He purposed in Himself,


In concluding this post let me repeat that I still don't know what 'Dominion Theology' is, so I ask you again to desist from this assumption.

Also, you have referred to 'Kingdom'... theology? (perhaps)... by which, are you able to give a definition of what you mean, please? I would find that helpful, thanks, (and of course, I would like scripture to support your understanding).

 2008/1/1 23:08









 Re: Eze 39: a question


Hi Jeannette,

I didn't reply sooner for a number of reasons, this being one of them... that you said

Quote:
That is my concern too, Linn. Yet you will not hear.

That was not helpful to my willingness to be open-minded - although I will continue to be open-minded - or to share what the Lord has been bringing to my understanding.

Katy-did wrote:
Quote:
Dorcas, This is a judgement against those who believe God is finished with Israel, and a warning to those who think the Church replaced those promises... This is judgement against Mystery Babylon..Gentile world power, exalting itself above God,..

...So be careful who's side your are playing on...

Now Jeannette, did you really [i]read[/i] [u]the rest[/u] of what Katy said here? (I didn't quote it all - p1 her third post.)

Do you mean you [i]agree[/i] that 'Mystery Babylon' is 'Gentile world power'?


I've been up half the night now, and I have to say I'm relieved finally to find this little clue to the reasoning I've struggled to comprehend.


Perhaps this discovery explains a great deal more also...

Bedtime beckons.... 8-)

 2008/1/1 23:34





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