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Tears_of_joy
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Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re: Preparations for the third temple

http://www.templeinstitute.org/

 2008/1/1 11:20Profile









 Re: Eze 39: a question



When you check out this link, please scroll down to the short discussion about the Greek word for the temple made without hands with scripture references, and think about whether Christ [u]is[/u] the eternal sacrifice or, there will actually be physical sacrifices in some future temple which will be then justified under His earthly reign.

If you decide the latter, how do your reconcile it with what you believe is the efficacy of your present theology? Does it raise any slight question of a works-based salvation - or not?

Acknowledgements to Rahman for finding this:

[url=http://www.sonstoglory.com/ThirdTempleEzekielsMillennialTemple.htm]http://www.sonstoglory.com/ThirdTempleEzekielsMillennialTemple.htm[/url]

 2008/1/1 13:00









 Re: Eze 39: a question


Hi Katy,

You may not be able to answer these questions, but first could you say where you got the long quote in your post on p2?

Quote:
Although there is some dispute as to whom the two witnesses are-Enoch? Elijah? Moses?-there is not a dispute that the third Jewish Temple will be built, the only question is when.

'the only question is when'? Do you believe this?

Quote:
"But leave out of your measuring the court outside the sanctuary of God; omit that, for it is given over to the Gentiles (the nations), and they will trample the holy city underfoot for 42 months (three and one-half years). And I will grant the power of prophecy to My two witnesses for 1,260 (42 months; three and one-half years), dressed in sackcloth."

Do you believe these two periods of 'three and one-half years' run at the same time? If so, on what basis?

Quote:
Rebuilding the Third Temple in accordance with the words of all the Hebrew prophets.

I found this interesting '[u]all[/u] the Hebrew prophets'?

Are you able to give any scripture references for this very specific prophecy of 'Rebuilding the Third Temple'?

Quote:
The Temple sacrifices of the past will once again be instituted.

Does this mean they are planning to build on David's pattern?

If so, will this temple have to be replaced with Ezekiel's and necessarily the sacrifices he described, at some future date?

Quote:
As Biblical prophecy continues to line-up, remember the words of Jesus Christ, "When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.

Noticing the word 'begin', do you believe the afore-mentioned third temple will have been completed before or after the battle at Jerusalem?

 2008/1/1 13:57









 Re:

Dorcas, there are so many articles so much information if you just look for it.

I have so many resources and information I will be glad to PM you if you like, but Tears of Joy's article confirms what my post said.

Tears of Joy...I get a News Letter from Rabbi Richman the Temple Institute. It is so informative as to what is going on in Israel today, many things you never hear on the News.

Unfortunately, we don't hear these things on the news, but through the Jerusalem Post, and other resources. Those who have no interest, or are blinded by yellow journalism against Israel will believe only a one sided argument.

I especially love how the press had sanitized Arafat, "the original PLO TERRORIST", who, if you have forgotten was behind the Airline hi-jacking in the 70's, the murdering of Jews during the Olympics( and so much more)...who NEVER really wanted PEACE to begin with....just the LAND. Why....to keep the Temple from being built.

The re making or re-telling of History is always a tactic of the enemy. The Idea that there are Palestinian Arabs is nonsense. If you look in strong’s, the Palestinians(not Jews) are the Philistines, who have always been the enemy of Israel from OT times. The genealogy of the Philistines goes all the way back to Genesis 10.

They came from the island of Crete...Greeks mind you.



However these modern day Palestinian Arabs are a displaced group of Arabs, not Palestinians...yet today's history would like you to think they are.


The rebuilding of the Third Temple has been something I have known about since I was a teen, and something that Good Prophecy teachers have taught as well.

Linn, what I also pick up on your comments is this.....you take these times that refer to the end and God's wrath, and turn them around as though it will be some wonderful time belonging to Gentiles as to their salvation.

Woe to those false prophets who say Peace Peace when there is no peace. You are leading *I believe* many people astray into a false sense of peace with scripture you have tried to manipulate to your liking. Not only here but "Who Killed Jesus" thread as well.

I would suggest a Good prophetic teacher who knows the book of Daniel, and how it correlates with Revelation, Israel, and the anti-christ.

The anti-christ will make a covenant of Hell with Israel to allow the rebuilding of the temple, and after 3 1/2 years turn on Israel.

I also believe the Mystery of God, Colossians 2 and Revelation 10:7 will have been removed from the earth at this time.

Before God CAN restore the Kingdom to Israel Acts 1:6&7, Gentile world power will be overthrown. They will be fed to the fouls of the air called "The great supper of God".....this is not going to be a pretty sight by any stretch of the imagination.

What I'd really like to know is, Why are you bothered by these things? Why do you insist on taking scripture about future promises to Israel and apply them to Gentiles wrapped in peaches and cream...misleading into false hope?

Today is the day of Salvation to both the Jew and the Greek forming the Church. These future promises to Israel are not to the Church, but to National Israel itself, at the end of the age, which also will be the final overthrow of Satan.

The Church is not going to overthrow Satan, or put an end to death. The Church is not the smiting stone used as some dominion power over the earth to knuckle under....but when or if you do see such things...this IS anti-christ...sitting in the temple as though it were God.



Love in Christ
Katy-Did

 2008/1/1 16:13









 Re:

Quote:

ChrisJD wrote:
Hi Jeannette,

"That's why its so difficult sometimes to know exactly what God means by things foretold in Scripture."

But people talk like they know for certain anyway.

True!

Of course, there [i]are[/i] certainties, otherwise we wouldn't have a sure hope at all, or know that Jesus is Lord and that He was crucified and rose from the dead and is coming back as conquering King, to reign over the whole world.

But the exact manner of His coming, or the exact order of events leading up to it, or precisely where we are now in that sequence of events is another matter. (For example, do the events represented by the seven seals, seven trumpets and seven vials of Revelation happen one after another or all at the same time?)

If the facts in [i]Epicenter[/i] are correct, we know, for example, that the "Gog and Magog war" is still to come; but also that, for the first time, it's easily possible in the forseeable future, maybe the near future. But how and when is another question.

What we can do is be spiritualy aware, ready, watch and pray and learn to read the signs of the times.

And [i]the[/i] key sign is the nation of Israel.

Whether they know Him or not, whether they like it or not, they are His witnesses, as Isaiah said!

Not of course to deny the reality of the spiritual Israel, Jew and Gentile together in Christ. As I and others have said many times.

in Him

Jeannette

 2008/1/1 16:57









 Re: Eze 39: a question


Hi Katy

Quote:
Linn, what I also pick up on your comments is this.....you take these times that refer to the end and God's wrath, and turn them around as though it will be some wonderful time belonging to Gentiles as to their salvation.

I have no idea how you read this into my posts.... honestly.

And, it is okay for me to ask you to back up your quotes from non-Christian sources.... about scripture ... with scripture references. I would be happy if you said you don't know where to find them, than to refer me to secular websites.

As you say, I can spend time cruising the internet for the sources you espouse, but you are claiming these as part of your [u]Christian[/u] belief... which is something I could never do.

One of my most longstanding quests as a believer has been to work rigorously at cross-referencing with[u]in[/u] scripture, what I then continue to hold as 'doctrine'. Don't you feel this is the only safe way forward?

Perhaps you would be encouraged to know that my understanding is changing, partly because of things which you say, [u]but[/u] at least some of the time, I come to a different conclusion from you as to what scripture means. I do this [u]without denying Israel[/u] her national destiny. Here's an example which militates against the separation of Israel and Church:

Colossians 1
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [i]things[/i] he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased [i]the Father[/i] that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, [u]by him to reconcile[/u] [b]all things[/b] unto himself; [b]by him[/b], [i]I say[/i], [b]whether[/b] [i]they be[/i] [b]things in earth, or things in heaven[/b].


I am doing my level best to understand your views and I ask questions only because they don't make sense to me in the light of scripture which I do believe I understand. (I mean, that scripture which I [i]do[/i] understand... I was not making a claim to understand it all [i]equally[/i])

Trusting that we both know the Lord personally, I don't particularly worry how much both of us may have to change our thinking to understand Him better, but I am bent on that alone.


And just because I'm not crying 'woe, woe' doesn't mean I don't understand how hard it may be to endure to the end. It's a regular topic of my prayers, that I may make it through.

Whether Jew or Gentile, Christians everywhere are going to be challenged.


This leads me to a question I've been wanting to ask you, in light of your many references to 'all Israel shall be saved' (which, (you should know) I do believe, but think it means something different from what you - so far - have explained to my understanding). [u]Note[/u] this is not a question about Sion, Zion Zech 12:10 or any end-time prophecy. What I wonder is: how are you defining 'all Israel'?

If you think you've answered this question previously, please indulge me again, particularly defining any Jews who will [u]not[/u] be saved.

Thanks. I look forward to greater mutual understanding.



 2008/1/1 17:11









 Re:

[*some slight editing of words, for clarity*]

Quote:

dorcas wrote:

When you check out this link, please scroll down to the short discussion about the Greek word for the temple made without hands with scripture references, and think about whether Christ [u]is[/u] the eternal sacrifice or, there will actually be physical sacrifices in some future temple which will be then justified under His earthly reign.

If you decide the latter, how do your reconcile it with what you believe is the efficacy of your present theology? Does it raise any slight question of a works-based salvation - or not?

Acknowledgements to Rahman for finding this:

[url=http://www.sonstoglory.com/ThirdTempleEzekielsMillennialTemple.htm]http://www.sonstoglory.com/ThirdTempleEzekielsMillennialTemple.htm[/url]

Hi Linn

We have been over this same ground again and again yet you still won't receive the truth of it!

Quote:
think about whether Christ [u]is[/u] the eternal sacrifice [b]or[/b], there will actually be physical sacrifices in some future temple which will be then justified under His earthly reign.

Christ IS the eternal Sacrifice, AND there will probably be physical sacrifices in a third temple. The word "or" doesn't come into the question at all!

The main purpose of a third, physical temple and animal sacrifices, is that the Antichrist will come and set himself up as "God" there.

There [i]is[/i] a possible alternative (or additional) interpretation which has a bearing on the present increase in deception in the Church, (see the Emerging Merger thread). That is that the Antichrist will appear in the Church, claiming to be the true Christ.

Or probably both?

But the plain reading of Scripture is that there will be a third physical temple built in Jerusalem, and that there will be sacrifices made. Why not? [b]Does that in any way negate the fact that Jesus is the Sacrifice and there is no need of another?[/b]

Quote:
Does it raise any slight question of a works-based salvation - or not?

Very definitely NOT! Why on earth (or in heaven for that matter!) should it?

As [i]Christians[/i] we know that Jesus is the Eternal Sacrifice for sin, and that there is no more need for any sacrifice, or "religion of works". The book of Hebrews explains this in depth.

But religious [i]Jews[/i] don't accept that, because they don't accept that Messiah has already come. [b]so why shouldn't they work towards rebuilding the temple and renewing sacrifices? And why shouldn't the Bible foretell that this will ALSO happen?[/b]

Why you keep talking as if there might be a problem reconciling the two I don't know.

in Him

Jeannette

 2008/1/1 17:30









 Re: Eze 39: a question


Hi Jeannette,

While I'm replying to your post, here is a link to the design of Solomon's temple, which was, apparently, patterned upon the Tabernacle.

Would this agree with your understanding of it?


[url=http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/king_solomons_temple/table_of_contents.htm]http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/king_solomons_temple/table_of_contents.htm[/url]

 2008/1/1 17:47









 Re:

Quote:
I have no idea how you read this into my posts.... honestly.



Linn, on both here and on the "who Killed Jesus thread" I'm not the only one who may have suggested you are playing on the wrong side.

You say..." I really don't know what Dominion Theology is", and again say..."No I don't believe in Dominion Theology"....YET you are an excellent teacher of Dominion Theology whether you know it or not.

We do see in the secular NEWS very important facts leading up to end times prophecy, whether those news medias are Christian or secular.

If a secular News media definitely states those who have the building materials to re-build the Temple are in the works, what does that matter. News reports News.

Are you too calling the Temple Institute a secular part of information? Or are you just stating these facts are not true?

Quote:
And just because I'm not crying 'woe, woe' doesn't mean I don't understand how hard it may be to endure to the end. It's a regular topic of my prayers, that I may make it through.



Are you living during the great tribulation NOW that you hope to make it through?

I believe we have a different understanding of the endurance of the Christians during the church Age, and some personal individual quest for those who will endure the Great tribulation.

What exactly are you *enduring* NOW? WE endure the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. Not the same as those during the Great Tribulation, one that will be nothing like this world has ever seen...Matthew 24 & 25, who will endure something quite different...not taking the mark of the beast..who will be the enemy of Israel in the Last Days. We are NOW are being prepared to return with Christ at that time, executing Judgement ( Jude) and reigning with Christ during the Kingdom Reign.

If you can't separate these two totally different times, you will be enduring for the wrong reasons, with a different outcome.

Read 2 Thessalonians, where the early Church going through suffering also thought it was the Great Tribulation, and Paul states very Clearly, that day called "The Day of the Lord" is not yet. Yes, they too were being led astray by false teachers stating they had to endure to the end. Have YOU rejected the Love of the Gospel that you may be saved? If not, then why act as though you have and are one God's wrath is coming upon. Jesus took our wrath upon the Cross.

Peter also states "that day will not overtake US as a thief in the night".


Quote:
If you think you've answered this question previously, please indulge me again, particularly defining any Jews who will not be saved.



Linn, Jews NOW, TODAY who have rejected the Gospel will not be saved under any circumstances, as well as Gentiles....as this is the Age of Grace. After the Church is translated out, Read Matthew 24....the Gospel of the *Kingdom* will be preached.... the Kingdom to be restored to Israel. We NOW live in the Gospel according to the Mystery.....the Church...Christ Body...bone of His Bone and flesh of His flesh.......this is not promised to future National Israel. Read 1 Corinthians 15 and read the order of events:

(1)Christ the First fruits
(2)THEN...Those who are His at His coming (the Church)
(3)AND THEN the Kingdom, where He must reign until He has put all things under His feet.

( If God states in Romans 11 *All* Israel will be saved...I'm not going to argue...are you? ;-)

(4) and then after all this is fulfilled everything will be THEN be The NEW Heaven and New Earth, delivered up to God...as we see in Revelation 21 & 22 where there is no need for the sun or the moon. See what it says then.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

 2008/1/1 17:58









 Re:

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/index.php?m=20061030

Linn, here is an excellent site re: Emergent Church, Dominion/Replacement Theology -anti-semitism ahd how it all links together.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

 2008/1/1 18:31





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