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 Eze 39: a question


Ezekiel 39
21 [b]And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.[/b]
22 So the house of Israel shall know that I [i]am[/i] the LORD [u]their[/u] God from that day and forward.
23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because...


I have a simple question, of anyone whose scholarship is up to it.

In v 22 I have underlined 'their' because in the context of v 21 it looks (to my spirit) as if 'their' is a reference to 'the heathen' and that Israel is seeing that Israel's God has become the heathen's God.

Look at it without the verse divisions:

And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them. So the house of Israel shall know that I [i]am[/i] the LORD their God from that day and forward. And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because...


Does anyone else see what I mean? (I hope so...)

(The reason I'm asking, is that v 22 has been given in a Bible study someone sent me, to support [u]Israel's[/u] return to the Lord.)

 2007/12/29 16:48
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re: Eze 39: a question

Just a thought: Who is God's Glory? Is it not Jesus Christ? Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Without this revelation now, how could they even understand the Glory of God. "which is Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

Ezekiel 39:21 And I will set (forth) my glory among the heathen (Gentiles), and all the heathen shall see


_________________
Phillip

 2007/12/29 23:37Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re: Eze 39: a question

dorcas,
dorcas wrote:

Ezekiel 39
all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

I got a tape from a rabbi that said any time you see "and the Lord bare his right arm" that it is judgement against the gentiles.
I never did look into it.
Have you ever heard of this?


David

 2007/12/30 12:22Profile









 Re: Eze 39: a question


Hi David,

Quote:
I got a tape from a rabbi that said any time you see "and the Lord bare his right arm" that it is judgement against the gentiles.
I never did look into it.
Have you ever heard of this?

No. And it doesn't read that way every time either. Sounds like a bit of undue re-interpretation of the word of God, as some rabbis have become used to doing.

All I am asking in my leading post, is for someone with Hebrew to agree or disagree with an explanation, that the 'their' which I underlined in v 22 refers to the Gentiles being able to claim[u] as their God also[/u], the God of Israel.

This is [i]not[/i] to say the God of Israel is no longer the God of Israel. It is to say the God of Israel has taken Gentiles under His lordship also - as well as Israel.

I can't see any other way to read it.

 2007/12/30 13:08









 Re:

Dorcas, for a Gentile to worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, in the OT, one need to become a Proselyte.

We see this happened to Ruth, who left the gods of her for-fathers behind to worship the God of Naomi....then becoming the Grandmother of David, and in the genelogy of the house of David.

There are specific warnings in the OT, prophecy still to be fulfilled concerning Jews as well as Gentile world power. Read Isaiah 14. A Very clear distinction.


Quote:


I got a tape from a rabbi that said any time you see "and the Lord bare his right arm" that it is judgement against the gentiles.
I never did look into it.
Have you ever heard of this?


No. And it doesn't read that way every time either. Sounds like a bit of undue re-interpretation of the word of God, as some rabbis have become used to doing.



Can you specifically quote scripture that does not read that way every time?

Even though many Jews are not saved, that doesn't mean they don't know their Bibles and we think we know more then they do?????

Their eyes may have been blinded concerning salvation until the fulness of the Gentiles come in, but that doesn't mean they are not well versed in the OT scriptures.

Where it says, "The Day of the Lord" always without exception mean the wrath and vengence of God.

When it says, "and the Lord bare his right arm" certainly does mean judgement against Gentiles.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

 2007/12/30 19:29









 Re:

Isaiah 52:9-11

9Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.

10The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.

11Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the LORD.



Yes, this will happen, read Isaiah 14. God will exalt Israel and His promises before all arrogant Gentile world power who thinks to rob Israel of those promises. Yes, all the world will see the salvation of Israel, Romans 11...where a Deliver will come out of SION and all Israel will be saved.

It's still in God's plan, and nothing has changed that from the time Paul wrote it. Paul wrote that in the Church age, the time we are in now.

Praise God!!

Love in Christ
Katy-Did ;-)

 2007/12/30 19:42









 Re: Eze 39: a question


Hi Katy,

Thanks for joining in.

I really was looking for someone with Hebrew, because I don't think there's any dispute that the Jews knew the God of Israel as their God.

So....

Ezekiel 39:21, 22
And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them. So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.


This is a prophecy about the day when 'the heathen' will also be known as servants of the 'God of Israel' 'from that day and forward'.

To me, the judgement being spoken of here, is that against sin, on the cross, in Jesus Christ.

 2007/12/30 19:46









 Re:

Dorcas, This is a judgement against those who believe God is finished with Israel, and a warning to those who think the Church replaced those promises. This is judgement against Mystery Babylon..Gentile world power, exalting itself above God, and sits with satan above the stars of God ( Israel) This is what Isaian 14 is about, and what the need for a DELIVER is in Romans 11. He comes to deliver Israel from this Gentile arrogant world power. Otherwise the scriptures would read redeemer.

Just as Israel was delivered out of the mouth of Pharoah, so too will they be delivered out of the mouth of antichrist....the head of this Gentile world power

Read Revelation...and they sang the song of Moses......this is certainly referring to DELIVER.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

PS: King Neb was a Gentile Babylonian King, who ended up eating grass like a dog on four legs.
Mild compared to what is going to happen in the last days.

PS: Added

Dorcas, you seem to believe everyone in the end will be saved??? This is not so. Yes, there will be some Gentiles saved, but this is the time now for Jews. Gentiles have their time NOW to be saved, and when that fulness is up, then it is Israel's time.

You see, when Jesus takes the throne of David, satan KNOWS his time is UP, being bound for 1000 years and then eternally in the lake of fire.


He wants to take as many with him as possible.

So be careful who's side your are playing on.

Katy

 2007/12/30 19:55









 Re:

Dorcas, it is dangerous to take a verse and build a theory leaving out those verses before and after.

I have posted here the whole chapter of Ezekiel 39 and especially bolded and underlined those verses AFTER yours to give a clear and concise understanding of these scriptures.

Again, this is about Israel...not gentiles.

Not everything is in the Bible is about you, nor is this about the Cross in the way you want it to read.

You will also see in Revelation referring to God and Magog...Gentile world power who comes against Israel. Many believe this to be before the 1000 year reign, so Gog and Magog no matter how you slice it is evil Gentile world power coming against Israel. Some too believe this is China and Russia.


Ezekiel 39
1Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

2And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

3And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.

4Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.

5Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

6And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

7So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

8Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.

9And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

10So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

11And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

12And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.

13Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.

14And they shall sever out men of continual employment, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search.

15And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man's bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamongog.

16And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.

17And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.

18Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.

19And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.

20Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.

21And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

22So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

[u][b] 23And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

24According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

25Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

26After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

27When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

28Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

29Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.[/b][/u]

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

 2007/12/30 20:45









 Re: Eze 39: a question

It doesn't take a profound knowledge of Hebrew to understand the passage. The only clue in form of the Hebrew words themselves would probably be, for example, if "heathen" was neuter and "house of Israel" was masculine. In that case the form of "their" or "them" would be masculine or feminine and probably confirm which group of people was meant.

I have checked and all the words - "heathen", "house of" and "Israel" - are all masculine forms. "Heathen" = "goyim" is derived from a feminine form, but is itself masculine. So the word form gives us no clue.

However, the immediate context does:

[color=990000]21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.[/color]
Here "them" has to refer to "heathen"

[color=990000]22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.[/color]
Here, "their" has to refer to "house of Israel". "They" (both Israel and the nations) shall know that God is Israel's God.

[color=990000]23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity:
because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.[/color]
Here, "their" "they" and "them" must mean Israel

[color=990000]25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies’ lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;[/color]
Again, "they" and "them" refers to Israel.

[color=990000]28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.[/color]
Again referring to Israel, except for a possibility that in v28 ..."Then shall they know ..." might mean the nations [i]as well as[/i] Israel shall know...

The whole context of the chapter is that a great coalition of Israel's enemies shall come against her, and shall be destroyed by God's power.

Taking the passage as a whole, [b]both Israel and the nations shall see the glory and power of God[/b]. And [b]both Israel and the nations[/b] shall see that Israel is His, in a way that other nations are not.

To HIS glory, not Israel's

In other words, world events shall make it obvious to both Israel and the nations that the God of Israel is the true God, because:

1. He punished Israel for her unfaithfulness to Him by driving the people into exile
2. He afterwards restored them to their land
3. When this huge heathen coalition attacks Israel, God will defend her, and destroy the nations that come against her.

I say "will" because historically those particular nations or people groups have never yet banded together against Israel, so that particular prophecy is not yet fulfilled.

This is simple and obvious. It only becomes obscure if the plain meaning of Scripture is twisted to mean something else.

in Him

Jeannette

 2007/12/31 8:16





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