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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Is Believing Jesus' Words a Work?

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ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi again Logic, and thank you for the response.


Logic, regarding Galatians 4:19 you said


"That would be a Christ like character, not christ Himself being born in us."



But where does it say that? Is Christ's character seperate from Christ Himself? What do you mean?


Prior to this in verse 6 it says


"And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father."

In John 14:18 the Lord says

[b][color=660033]I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. [/color][/b]




Also, regarding fruit you said


"The branch(us) bears the fruit, the vine(Jesus) enables the branch."


In Matthew 26:29, Mark 14:25, and Luke 22:18, the Lord Jesus, speaking about wine I think, reffers to it as [b]the fruit of the vine[/b].


Isn't it that the branches [b]hold[/b] the fruit that [u]the vine[/u] is bearing? Everything for life comes from the vine, not the branches, right? And again, the fruit in Galatians 5 is not called the fruit of the believer.


I thought also of this where it says


"But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us."


- 2 Corinthains chapter 4 verse 7(KJV)



Also, regarding John 6:29 you said


"The work that we do of GOD(not from GOD) is to believe on Him.
We do GOD"s work by believing."



But where does it say that? This is the same context in which He says all that are given to Him will come to Him(v37), that no one can come to Him except God draws them(v44), and also that everyone that is taught by God and that have heard and learned will come to Him(v45). Whose working here, isn't it God at work?



Regarding Hebrews 13:20 I'm not clear what you were saying, maybe you could rephrase it?


I noticed you emphasised [b]to do[/b]. In John 14:10 the Lord Jesus said it was His Father that did the works.


Thanks again and take care for now,


Chris



_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/1 15:03Profile









 Re: Is Believing Jesus' Words a Work?



Hi Logic,

I'm going to answer just one of your questions:

Quote:
Show me where Jesus is ever born again in us.

Romans 6
3 are ye ignorant that we, as many as were [u]baptized [b]to Christ Jesus, to his death[/b] were baptized?[/u]
4 we were buried together, then, with him through the baptism to the death, that even [u]as Christ was raised up out of the dead through the glory of the Father, so also we in newness of life[/u] might walk.

1 Corinthians 15
20 And now, Christ hath risen out of the dead--the first-fruits of those sleeping he became, 21 for since through man [i]is[/i] the death, also through man [i]is[/i] a rising again of the dead,
22 for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive,
23 and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,

Galatians 2
20 with Christ I have been crucified, [b]and live [u]no more[/u] do I[/b], and Christ doth live in me; and that which I now live in the flesh--in the faith I live of the Son of God,


That part of Romans 6:4 referring to Jesus' resurrection, is translated in my interlinear as 'from among the dead', but Tyndale has 'from death'. There is also the assumption that being raised to newness of life [u]automatically[/u] leads to [u]walking[/u] in the Spirit.

If we do not say that Jesus was somehow 'born again' through His resurrection, on what basis can we claim to be 'born again' through participating in His by faith? Seriously?

At the same time as asking this, I do realise there is a crossover between life in the flesh which He made, which we do not.

His death was complicated by His battle with [u]sin[/u] on our behalf, by which our life in Him (through new birth), can lead to the kind of overcoming life which He already had in the flesh because He didn't have [i]fallen[/i] flesh to deal with.

Nevertheless, His victory against sin in His personal life - in that He didn't once succumb to sin - is not insignificant for us either. This is the life to which we aspire, is it not, which can only begin [i]after[/i] new birth?

Thus, now, we live [i]through[/i] Him (because His death opened the way for us to have the life of God [u]in us[/u]).

1 John 4
9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.
10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son [i]to be[/i] the propitiation for our sins.
11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.
13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.

 2008/1/1 15:05
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

I was just thinking how these discussions seem more like talking about how Lazarus was able to put one foot in front of the other instead of being astounded that He was raised from the dead.


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/1 15:37Profile
PaulWest
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Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
I was just thinking how these discussions seem more like talking about how Lazarus was able to put one foot in front of the other instead of being astounded that He was raised from the dead.



Well said. One foot in front of the other! It puts a whole new spin on the word [i]ped[/i]antics.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/1/1 15:44Profile









 Re: Is Believing Jesus' Words a Work?


ChrisJD wrote:

Quote:
I was just thinking how these discussions seem more like talking about how Lazarus was able to put one foot in front of the other instead of being astounded that He was raised from the dead.

Okay, Chris,

How would you have us move on from a state of astoundedness?

 2008/1/1 16:00









 Re: Is Believing Jesus' Words a Work?



Paul said

Quote:
It puts a whole new spin on the word [i]ped[/i]antics.

that's funny

 2008/1/1 16:04
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3698
Ca.

 Re:

""""Show me where Jesus is ever born again in us?""""

Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

John 3:3-5 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Who is the Water of Life which this is speaking of? Who's Spirit must we have or we are none of Gods sons'.

Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

The Water of Life springing up to everlasting life is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".

Jhn 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

The Spirit of Christ is ours at the birth of Christ in us.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Where is the water? Where is the Spirit of Christ? Born Again of Water and Spirit.

The incorruptable Seed of God the Father is Christ Jesus, this is the Sperma of God. That is why Jesus told us to pray this way, "Our Father". The Seed in this scripture is "Parentage Seed". This Seed is born again in you. This Seed is the Word. The Word is Christ.

"The Word became flesh", and dwelt among us.

The "Logos" was Supreme Divinity"

Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Here is the Holy Spirit in you and By the Spirit of Christ that dwelleth in you these bodies have been quickened to contain The God Head, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. We not only have the new birth by the Spirit of Christ that dwell in us, but we have been given the Holy Spirit also and the Father's abode is also with us. If you don't have the Spirit of Christ birthed in you you are none of His.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2008/1/1 16:05Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi Dorcas.

I don't know.


But then again let's not wait around for Lazarus to die again so we can do an autopsy to find out what kept him alive.

It's miraculous.



_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/1 16:08Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Better yet, when people around us start asking us about the hope we have in us, and they see a man come back from the dead, maybe we'll be qualified to take it all apart with our words.


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/1 16:11Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Its high time our experience start matching the verbosity of our theology.


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/1 16:12Profile





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