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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Christians and politics?

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Joined: 2004/1/28
Posts: 360

 Christians and politics?

Should Christians be involved in politics? What about "salt & light" in the culture? Should or should not Christians be involved with "culture changing" and evangelizing 'social issues'?

Doug Renz

a Jesus freak

 2004/6/2 11:17Profile

Joined: 2004/5/17
Posts: 235

 Re: Christians and politics?

The short answer is, "Yes". However, the time you are involved has to be lead by Holy Spirit.

John the Baptist confronted Herod for his immorality. "It is not lawful for you to have your brother's wife." (Mark 6:18) In the book of Acts, Paul appeals to Caesar (Acts 25:11). Jesus said we would stand before kings for His name's sake (Luke 21:12-15).

At a minimum we should be praying for our leaders (I Timothy 2:1-3), obeying the laws of the land (Romans 13) and of course we render unto Caesar . . . (Matthew 22:21) From these verses, the Bible sets a precedent that our voices should be heard by governing bodies; perhaps not the president or king of a nation, but local senators, congress, parliament, etc.

The doctrine to evangelize and disciple dictates that cultures will change as men and women are born again. As culture changes, politics will change. Christians were instrumental in ending slavery. America's Founding Fathers were (mostly) committed Christians and they created the form of government we have today.

Should we look to governmental changes as the salvation of a nation? No. Only when the Crown Rights of King Jesus are recognized will nations change. How does that happen? The nation will change with the Church first changes? How does the Church change? When individual Christians get right with the Lord! When we believers spend time in the Word of God and prayer we will get the appropriate sense of whom God is and our lives will display the results of those beliefs. That will change a nation. The world was turned upside down in the first century by a handful of believers who were wholly committed to Jesus Christ. Where are they today? Are you (anyone reading this) one of them? If not, why not? What could be more important that the glory of God?

This of course begs the question; "Should Christians enter the political fray?" Yes, as God leads. Political decisions have the capacity to change lives for the better or worse. Christians are also in the life-changing business; thus we want to affect the decisions that effect others lives. True, the battle is not against flesh and blood, but spiritual battles have physical manifestations. If someone disobeys one of God's Commandments (spiritual) there are physical repercussions. We are all well aware of the physical consequences of sexual immorality, theft, murder, etc. These are spiritual battles with physical ramifications. On the positive side, giving a cup of cold water in Jesus' name (physical) is a ministry to Christ Himself (spiritual).

Thus, spiritual beings (Christians) should engage in the physical: politics, education, etc. We must realize of course that these activities are not the end, in and of themselves, but a means to the end, that is, the glory of God!


 2004/6/2 14:04Profile

Joined: 2004/5/23
Posts: 21


I agree with you except with more passion. Christians are part of another culture, the Kingdom of God culture. We are to occupy. Look at Iraq, that is what occupy means. Make the bad guys conform to your law! Let's get in politics and all over politics and be the ones making the laws. Every Christian should vote and be vocal in their district. We should know the judges, their record, and their agenda. Don't complain that God is not good when the crooked or liberal judge you got sends you down the river and you didn't vote or take the time to know their record. Truly, that will not change a person's salvation status. Salvation can not be voted in. The Christian community can run things. That is how God intended it to be. We are the head and not the tail!

 2004/6/2 14:27Profile

Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


smichael wrote:

"We should know the judges, their record, and their agenda. Don't complain that God is not good when the crooked or liberal judge you got sends you down the river and you didn't vote or take the time to know their record."

Don't forget about the other crooked branches of our government. I saw a list of crimes committed by those in our legislature recently. Our government represents the world.

In terms of the courts, most of the precepts that control corporations and our economy are created in the court system. Of the three branches, this is the easiest means by which a few people can effect change without much scrutiny by the general public.

In Christ

Jeff Marshalek

 2004/6/2 17:31Profile

Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


I found a list concerning the British government. I do believe the US government would meet the same criteria:

"Below is a list drawn from the 3 main British political parties,I've deleted their names because I'm not witch-hunting (and I'm an ex-convict myself) but I just want to show how rife crime is among our political rulers nowadays and in recent years and I wonder if there are any End-Time prophecies about it?:)

Tory Party General election candidate,***** – Convicted and jailed for 3 years for downloading hardcore child porn.
Tory Party Councillor (Wickbar/Bristol) ***** – Convicted and jailed for 6 years for multiple sex attacks on children.
Tory Party Vice-Chairman of Welsh Conservatives, ***** – Received a banning order for stalking women.
Tory Party MP (Chelmsford?) ***** - convicted of sex offences of a sado-masochistic nature against teenage boys, and forced to resign.
Tory Party Councillor (Stratford-upon- Avon) ***** – Convicted of downloading hardcore child porn on his PC. Placed on sex offenders register and forced to resign.
Tory Party councillor (Coventry), ***** – Charged with indecent assault of a 15-year old boy.
Tory Party Mayor (North Tyneside), ***** – Forced to resign after being arrested twice in 2 weeks, for indecent assault on a 15-year old girl, and for suspicion of downloading child porn.
Tory Party MEP, ***** - Caught smuggling drugs and porn through customs.
Tory Party councillor and former Mayor (Wrexham), ***** – Convicted and put on probation for 2 years, for the indecent assault of another man, which was captured on CCTV.
Tory Party Liaison Manager on the London Assembly,*****, whose job includes running the Tory GLA website - Arrested this year for allegedly downloading child porn. He is currently suspended while the Police investigation continues.
Labour Councillor (Newton Aycliffe) ***** – Convicted and jailed for 15 years for sexually abusing 3 14-year-old boys. (2001)
Labour Councillor (North Lincolnshire) ***** – Convicted and jailed for 1 year for masturbating in front of 2 young boys.
Labour Mayor (Westhoughton) ***** – Convicted and jailed for 10 years for 3 rapes and 13 counts of indecent assault.
Labour Mayor (Todmordon) ***** – Convicted and jailed for rape and threats to kill.
Prominent Labour Party activist ***** (who has met Tony & Cherie Blair at Party functions) recently got a 15-year sentence for raping a 4-year old girl on 2 separate occasions.
Labour’s current Parliamentary Candidate (Reading East) ***** – Has 2 Convictions for Acts of Gross Indecency` in public toilets.
Labour Mayor (Burnley) ***** – Convicted of sex offences in public toilet.
Entire Labour Party conspired to conceal the activities of Labour Party activist and serial child-molester *****, who died from AIDS before he could be convicted.
Labour MP (Rhonda Valley) *****t poses in his pants on the Internet to advertise himself for casual gay sex encounters. Describes himself as “Horny as buggery” and says, “I'd love a good long f---”.
Labour MP ***** was mugged by a Rasta on Clapham Common while cruising for gay sex. He was photographed again by the media recently, engaged in some `man-on-man` action in a field off a motorway. “I was only looking for badgers,” he said.
Labour MP (Sheffield), ***** – Suspended from Parliament for 7 days after being caught forging immigration papers to extend the stay of his Brazilian rent-boy gay lover.
Lib-Dem Council candidate (Tower Hamlets), ***** – Convicted and jailed for 2 years for sexual abuse of young boys.
Lib-Dem Councillor and Mayoral Candidate (Sheffield), *****– Prosecuted for indecent assault of a young boy.
Lib-Dem Councillor (Stockport) ***** – Sexually assaulted a 16-year old boy in a public toilet. He was caught with a plastic bag containing lubricant, plastic surgical gloves, a condom, and underpants.
Lib-Dem Councillor (Preston), ***** – Charged with: Making an indecent photograph of a child, Incitement to rape, Incitement to murder, Incitement to kidnap, and Incitement to torture. *****’s gay lover - *****, is also a Lib-Dem councillor.
Tory Party councillor (Dudley), *****, who was also chairman of the Dudley Police Committee and a Tory Party spokesman on crime – Convicted and jailed for 6 months for passport fraud and assisting illegal immigration from his native country – Pakistan.
Former Tory Party Cabinet Minister, ***** – Convicted and jailed for Perjury and Conspiracy to Pervert the Course of Justice.
Former Tory Party Chairman and London Mayoral Candidate, ***** – Convicted and jailed for Perjury and Conspiracy to Pervert the Course of Justice.
Labour Councillor (Sandwell) *****convicted of illegally obtaining £20,000 in Housing Grants.
Labour councillors in Doncaster – 23 Convicted and 2 jailed for massive fraud, corruption and theft of public funds. Investigation also uncovered massive Labour Party corruption in neighbouring Rotherham.
Labour Party Councillor (Blackburn), ***** – arrested together with 6 Labour activists on suspicion of Election rigging.
Labour Party Euro MP, ***** is currently being investigated for an alleged expenses fraud involving hundreds of thousands of pounds
Tony Blair recently appointed his close friend/crony and colleague of his wife - ***** as the new Director of Public Prosecutions, despite the fact he has a drugs conviction.
Lib-Dem Councillor (Peterborough), ***** – Prosecuted for 21 counts of Theft and False Accounting.
3 Lib-Dem Councillors convicted and jailed for Election Fraud in Hackney in 2001
12 Lib-Dem officials convicted of Election Fraud in Oldham in 2001.
Lib-Dem councillor (Portsmouth), ***** – Convicted and jailed for 4 months for election rigging, along with Lib-Dem colleague *****. ***** was arrested again in July 2003 for threatening a witness who helped to convict him.
***** – Convicted of 9 counts of benefit fraud last year (2003). 2 weeks after the court case, she was elected as a Lib-Dem councillor in Leicester!
Lib-Dem councillor (Lambeth), ***** – Forced to resign after being investigated for benefit fraud.
Former Liberal leader ***** – Stood trial for conspiring to have his blackmailing gay lover murdered.
Labour Councillor (Wales) ***** – Convicted and jailed for unlawful wounding after attacking a neighbour with a sledgehammer.
Labour Councillor (Wales) ***** – Bit off a mans ear in a dispute over a seat on a train!
Lib-Dem councillor (North Norfolk), ***** – Also a nurse until she was struck off the nursing register after being found guilty of mistreating patients and abusive behaviour.
Lib-Dem Parliamentary candidate (Burnley), ***** – Charged with drunken assault on his `lodger`. ***** sobbed like a baby during the court case, and the case is to be re-listed and heard again after the jury failed to reach a verdict.
Lib-Dem Councillor (Sheffield) ***** – Convicted and jailed for 9 months for unlawful wounding/dangerous driving. After attacking an elderly woman’s Golden retriever dog by throwing pepper in its face, he then seriously injured the dog’s owner – 57-year old Barbara Johnson, with his car as she tried to stop him escaping."

In Christ

Jeff Marshalek

 2004/6/2 18:20Profile

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