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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Rebuilding the Walls

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MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3222
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

glorytoglory wrote:

You don't have to be a pastor to confront someone. Jesus did not say this to just pastors but all Christians. This is the way things should be handled in the church. You can't ignore the body that is why the body is suffering and especially here in America. ultimately if all else fails God intervenes and I have witnessed this many times.




See this is not what I meant at all, if I don't have the personal understanding as I have said in a prior post this is were confusion enters and we all know who is the master of confusion. All I can do if it will help your cause is concede to you that your right, although I am clueless about what you mean and your clueless as to what I mean, and as I have said before.

I am not called to discipline or confront or talk about Pastors "it's not my calling", yes if someone steals from me even if they don't work for me, I would confront them personally and they would probably lie if they steal, so basically I would have to let it go, forgive them and move on.

I am sorry I don't understand your point, I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me, we must remember were all different in the way God chooses to use us and our knowledge, and until I hear him scream to me Bill that Pastor is wrong go let him know, I am staying clear, so I can devote 100% to what I know he has he called me to do.

Sorry I don't understand,or agree with you but I can't just go along to get along especially if I don't feel called or understand, that would be just as bad as for me as ignoring the body it is to you.
Mr. Bill


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Mr. Bill

 2007/12/24 17:15Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
You don't have to be a pastor to confront someone. Jesus did not say this to just pastors but all christians. This is the way things should be handled in the church. You can't ignore the body that is why the body is suffering and especially here in America. Untimately if all else fails God intervenes and I have witnessed this many times.


Most times I find when we come to others to speak some correction we usually have a "beam" in our own eyes. I have found the most effective way to be salt and light for the world and more importantly the church is to walk according to the rule of Christ. If we walk in holiness it will speak volumes to others. I have found persecution when I walked in a way that was without reproach but spoke not one word. This unsettled many more then if I spoke many words.

I recommend this series for young people, for I feel young people are the quickest to speak and feel they can rebuke everyone else, PLEASE LISTEN TO PART 4!!:

[b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 1[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=7c70561bf5e03b95aa99

[b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 2[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=2e2a57ace4d9a76fd9ac

[b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 3[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=92d2124a67ea0f4cb5f8

MUST LISTEN TO THIS PART: [b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 4[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=56fc8a4d2a519803d51b

[b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 5[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=eee1462c82c6964087ff

[b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 6[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=650923ea331c15af3b16

[b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 7[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=f5039a8cadc6acbb4b2c


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2007/12/24 17:27Profile









 Re:

Quote:

sermonindex wrote:
Quote:
You don't have to be a pastor to confront someone. Jesus did not say this to just pastors but all christians. This is the way things should be handled in the church. You can't ignore the body that is why the body is suffering and especially here in America. Untimately if all else fails God intervenes and I have witnessed this many times.


Most times I find when we come to others to speak some correction we usually have a "beam" in our own eyes. I have found the most effective way to be salt and light for the world and more importantly the church is to walk according to the rule of Christ. If we walk in holiness it will speak volumes to others. I have found persecution when I walked in a way that was without reproach but spoke not one word. This unsettled many more then if I spoke many words.

I recommend this series for young people, for I feel young people are the quickest to speak and feel they can rebuke everyone else, PLEASE LISTEN TO PART 4!!:

[b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 1[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=7c70561bf5e03b95aa99

[b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 2[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=2e2a57ace4d9a76fd9ac

[b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 3[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=92d2124a67ea0f4cb5f8

MUST LISTEN TO THIS PART: [b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 4[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=56fc8a4d2a519803d51b

[b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 5[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=eee1462c82c6964087ff

[b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 6[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=650923ea331c15af3b16

[b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 7[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=f5039a8cadc6acbb4b2c




There is a time and a place for everything and a season ect... It's not all one sided I agree either way or else why would there be Matthew 18:16-17?

Some people too who you approach that have either hurt you or the church in general sometimes you will find they do not care. It's sad but true and you have to know that is a chance you are going to take.

How you handle it afterwards is a different matter all depending on the circumstances.

Let God be true and every man a liar...



 2007/12/24 17:42
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3222
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

sermonindex wrote:
Most times I find when we come to others to speak some correction we usually have a "beam" in our own eyes.



And your exactly right, trust me I always
have a beam in mine and maybe thats why I
don't feel comfortable about me correcting
others, but one day when I feel beamless I
might do so. :-P


_________________
Mr. Bill

 2007/12/24 19:28Profile









 Re:

Quote:

MrBillPro wrote:
Quote:

sermonindex wrote:
Most times I find when we come to others to speak some correction we usually have a "beam" in our own eyes.



And your exactly right, trust me I always
have a beam in mine and maybe thats why I
don't feel comfortable about me correcting
others, but one day when I feel beamless I
might do so. :-P




Atleast your honest! :-) The beam I believe is speaking of your conscience. If you have a clear conscience you can speak to others. We can't judge ourselves and even say we are blameless only God knows if we are blameless.

My conscience bothers me if I am offended and say nothing. You just have to make sure your motives are pure.




 2007/12/24 19:53









 Re: Church Discipline


I'm doing my best to follow this thread. Still not quite sure what it's about, and whether there is a valid point about the whole body of Christ, which most actual elders and pastors would rather not have to deal with. It is so much easier if they can contain any matters of discipline within their own four walls (so to speak), neither being answerable to their own flock (if they so desire), or to concerns expressed by those outside the immediate catchment from which their congregation is drawn.

I am interested for a couple of reasons, both as one who was in a 'church' being led by a false shepherd, and as one who was not followed-up by elders who believed I was out of order for leaving. Both scenarios give cause for concern, the first more than the second, because a whole bunch of people were being misled.

On the matter of being 'beamless', glorytoglory said

Quote:
We can't judge ourselves

I don't agree. First, what Paul says in 1 Cor 11 came straight to mind:

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [i]that[/i] cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many [i]are[/i] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 [u]For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged[/u].
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Young puts v 32 this way: 'and being judged by the Lord, we are chastened, that with the world we may not be condemned;'


I believe also, that having pure motives is not merely subjective, but our lives should show we do not have a self-seeking agenda.

This verse comes to mind also, as part of the proof of our 'authority':

Ephesians 5
18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
21 [u]Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God[/u].


This last verse plays straight into the whole matter of church discipline, in that one would assume a brother or sister would want to be offered correction, for the sake of their own soul, rather than be left to take responsibility for leading a whole group astray.

In fact, this raises the matters touched upon in the letters to the churches in Revelation 2

to Pergamos...
14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, [u]who taught[/u] Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

to Thyatira...
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, [u]to teach[/u] and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.



How does a person get into leadership, who does not submit to God, who is not interested in His word, or who doesn't care for the flock [i]willingly?[/i]

 2007/12/24 21:16









 Re:

The reason I started this thread is I'm trying to understand how we as Christians are to respond in this country to a backslidden, prosperity preaching, Laodecian church that we face everyday. I'm all for resting in Lord of course but their are times when we face things head on in our church like you have dorcas and we are faced with having to respond.My question is how do we go about this?

I believe we each have a responsability to the church we attend. I also believe even though we may think we are not going to be taken well by confronting others when needed we still have an obligation to do so.

You may be surrounded by unbelievers in your church but you are still a member of the body of Christ.

Revival begins with each individual member. God doesn't usually move unless we move first. If we see a need we should respond to it as God calls us to. Since the church is not where it should be we are confronted with many unresolved problems and issues. There is no getting around these things. We aren't called to find acceptance from others but to be faithful to God and the calling on our lives.

This is where I believe we are at as a church in America:

Nehemiah 2:17-18

17Then said I unto them, Ye see the distress that we are in, how Jerusalem lieth waste, and the gates thereof are burned with fire: come, and let us build up the wall of Jerusalem, that we be no more a reproach.

18Then I told them of the hand of my God which was good upon me; as also the king's words that he had spoken unto me. And they said, Let us rise up and build. So they strengthened their hands for this good work.





 2007/12/24 21:47
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3222
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

glorytoglory wrote:
I also believe even though we may think we are not going to be taken well by confronting others when needed we still have an obligation to do so.



Maybe we "or some" do have the obligation to do so, but if your not up on the scriptures and you better be really up on them when your confronting others, because like my Dad use to tell me you don't take a pocket knife to a sword fight.


_________________
Mr. Bill

 2007/12/24 22:06Profile





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