SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : General Topics : Frank Viola - Shaking Up Church

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 )
PosterThread
sojourner7
Member



Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE

 Re:

Something Francis Schaeffer said comes to mind:

The call of the gospel is still compelling.
His grace is irresistable, His love is
unfailing, His promises are timeless and
true. If the Church has lost her relevance
for today; it is because she has forgotten
her place--she serves as the body of Christ!!


_________________
Martin G. Smith

 2007/12/17 20:43Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
there is a danger in straying from the Person of Christ and focusing so much on "practice"


I suspect that there is much focus on the “practice” because the “practice” is viewed as the culprit. On the contrary, if the problems were viewed as theological/ spiritual, than theological/spiritual solutions would be sought.

I am convinced that as long as the fallen nature of humanity is not recognized for what it is, then God's solution will have little value, and people will keep stumbling over the scriptures that explain the redemptive work of Christ, and its implications in the Church.


[url=http://www.ptmin.org/articles/ ]Articles by Frank Viola[/url]

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2007/12/17 21:45Profile
MisterCheez
Member



Joined: 2006/2/22
Posts: 96
Colorado

 Re:

Thank you for all of the input.

Emergent church stuff aside, the root of his message seems correct:

The form of many current church organizations hinders true fellowship, community and giving.

By reminding us that Christ is the head and we are the body, Frank does us a favor. I find Art Katz ideas on community and Frank's concerns about institutional church striking a chord with me.

"Church" is a body and as such, should be more fluid, organic and Christ-led. Churches should be meeting not only to discuss scriptural truths but, "what is the head telling us this day/week?"

For me, knowing I can still be a valid believer and not buy into the Sunday/midweek/this institution is your covering/ religion is fresh air to a suffocating man.

Not only do I think the church should be more fluid, under persecution it has to be.

Brian


_________________
Brian Erickson

 2007/12/18 12:07Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

Quote:
The form of many current church organizations hinders true fellowship, community and giving.

i agree with you in this. but one thing we have to keep in mind is not every church is like the church we go attend. i find that remembering this will keep me from asuming every church is like this or that.
Quote:
By reminding us that Christ is the head and we are the body, Frank does us a favor. I find Art Katz ideas on community and Frank's concerns about institutional church striking a chord with me.

this does with me as well. when i started to read and study this stuff about 1 1/2 - 2 years ago, it was very refreshing and interesting.

i was raised in the same church and the same denomination from when i was 2, so it was nice to hear about the early church and the practice of them.
Quote:
For me, knowing I can still be a valid believer and not buy into the Sunday/midweek/this institution is your covering/ religion is fresh air to a suffocating man.

believe me brother, you sound so much like myself last year. i would just caution you to continue to keep this in prayer and give it to the Lord. many times we may be too quick to react a certain way because we have seen the other extreme and we go completely to the other extreme. what i have found is that while i still agree with much of early church practice of things, i have allowed the Lord to give me patience and love for many of my friends who think that one has to go to an institutional church for church.

i guess i'm just trying to say continue to give this time (pray about it, study about it), but never allow yourself to become bitter or angry with people who do not agree with you on this issue. that will come with giving this issue to the Lord and continuing to focus on Him.

there is more to say, but i think i've probably said enough. i hope that this post may be a blessing to you. if you would like to talk about it more, please feel free to pm me or whatever.

phil




 2007/12/18 12:45Profile









 Re:

Quote:

MisterCheez wrote:
Thank you for all of the input.

Emergent church stuff aside, the root of his message seems correct:

The form of many current church organizations hinders true fellowship, community and giving.

By reminding us that Christ is the head and we are the body, Frank does us a favor. I find Art Katz ideas on community and Frank's concerns about institutional church striking a chord with me.

"Church" is a body and as such, should be more fluid, organic and Christ-led. Churches should be meeting not only to discuss scriptural truths but, "what is the head telling us this day/week?"

For me, knowing I can still be a valid believer and not buy into the Sunday/midweek/this institution is your covering/ religion is fresh air to a suffocating man.

Not only do I think the church should be more fluid, under persecution it has to be.

Brian

That is so true, Brian

However, I would ask everyone to take a look at the Emerging Church thread that He_Reigns has just started. The information there brings a balance.

As I posted in response:

Quote:
The trouble is that there is nothing wrong with the desire to be more flexible and re-evaluate how one "does church" (I hate that expression but can't think of a better one offhand). So many of us are no doubt tired of dead, traditional ways of "worship", where the tradition has gradually taken over the life and fossilised the church. (Like a lobster, it has to change its shell now and again or it will cease to grow and will eventually die.)

The real problem seems to be that the re-evaluation doesn't stop at outward, non-essential church customs, such as form of service, music, when or if a collection is taken, or the kind of bread and wine used at communion.

It's when the re-evaluation turns to throwing out or redefining our essential [i]beliefs[/i] we have a problem.

And it's a very very big problem.

In HIm

Jeannette

 2007/12/18 18:45









 Re:

Quote:

Mattie wrote:
While much of Viola's discussions on early church practice and history is very informative, I think there is a danger in straying from the Person of Christ and focusing so much on "practice". While the Scriptures do show us a glimpse of what some of the early church gatherings were like, it gives us no law on how we are to hold services. However God chooses to lead is entirely up to Him. As long as He manifests Himself and truth is exalted then I think that is what matters. Frank Viola and Gene Edwards must beware of calling all "institutional" (atleast institutional in their eyes) churches being something outside of God's plan. God is jealous for His church and we must be careful how we talk about her.

Amen, good point

 2007/12/18 18:47
areed
Member



Joined: 2004/1/16
Posts: 2


 Re:

Brian,

Have not met Frank personally but have been in the house church arena since 96 and have talked with him on the phone. I must say I am surprised at his linking up with the emergent stream. But then I was surprised to see him link up with Gene Edwards. That aside his writings are very good. His emphasis is not on practise. Although he has written books that indicate some practises keep us from experiencing the body life exhibited in the n.t.

I would say his emphasis is more on the purpose of God having been influenced by Stephen Kaung and Austin T. Sparks and the like.

regards,

Ken M.

 2008/2/9 21:28Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy