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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Jesus was not "good"?

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smichael
Member



Joined: 2004/5/23
Posts: 21


 Re:

Let me know the next time you adopt a dog or cat to be your child! We think that is weird yet we will ascribe that to God. We are birthed as the God kind. That is the victory and joy. When we were in Adam we all sinned and died spiritually then physically finally followed. But, Adam was dead when he sinned. A dead man walking. We are born dead. In a spiritual sense we are the night of the living dead. (Sorry, my 1980's origin is showing) Jesus came and brought His light, which is the life of men. We are literally born again by the Holy Spirit. We are adopted into the line and provision of Abraham. That convenant is what we are adopted or grafted into. He says that we are grafted into a vine and I don't see anyone saying we must be vegatation?
Study out Philippians 2:6 It is our identification with who Jesus is and how He accomplished His mission that empowers us to the same kind of success. We shouldn't consider it robbery to be equal with God. The question is are we manifesting God or our we taking this spiritual blessing and doing what we have always known. The gospel message is good news you do not have to live as a mere mortal man. You have been born of deity and can live everlastingly as God lives, now and continuing after we leave the corrupt flesh and put on a new body.

 2004/6/3 23:31Profile
jeremyhulsey
Member



Joined: 2003/4/18
Posts: 777


 Re: ????

Quote:
Study out Philippians 2:6 It is our identification with who Jesus is and how He accomplished His mission that empowers us to the same kind of success. We shouldn't consider it robbery to be equal with God.



Well, I followed your advice, and I came to a completely different conclusion. Philippians Chapter 2 is the antithesis of your proposition.

Philipians 2:6 Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God (KJV)

The archaic language of the KJV here is deceptive, but still can be properly interpreted if only you would have read the surrounding passages.

Verses 3-5 "Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem each other better than themselves. (4)Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. (5) Let this mind be in you, which also in Christ Jesus:"

Verses 7-8a "(7)But made himself of no reputations and took upon himself the form of a servant(slave), and was made in the likeness of men: (8a)And being found in fashion as a man"

The King James here is deceptive in todays language. It appears to say that Jesus had no problem being equal with God and actively sought to be such on the earth, but then verse 7 appears to contradict the previous passage saying that he made himself of no reputation.

Here is what the literal says in my interlinear text says of verses 6 and 7:

"(6)Who in the form of God existing not a thing to be grasped did regard to be equal with God. (7)But He poured out Himself the form of a slave taking in the likeness of men having been born and having been found in appearance as a man."

The NASB says it more properly than the KJV in this way:

"(6)who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, (7)but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being in the likeness of men"

Now that a proper renduring of this passage has been quoted, verse 5 says, "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Chirst Jesus."

You say we should walk as God, Philippians says we should walk in humility as mere men humbly oweing our existance and subsistance to the providence of our Father. This is the secret to the powerful Christian life. It's not a "mighty prophet" working great signs and wonders, but a lowly submission to a greater power that works mightily within us. The miracles that were worked through the apostles were not the works of the apostles, but God bringing miracles at the hands of His servants, and that's how He still does it today. Not like the "God on vacation" as Kenneth Copeland teaches.

Quote:
Let me know the next time you adopt a dog or cat to be your child! We think that is weird yet we will ascribe that to God. We are birthed as the God kind.



That God takes us as His own, does not make us Godlike. Jesus also said He could raise up children of Abraham from rocks. You make a fundamental mistake here. Yes we are called His children, and Acts calls us his offspring, but so is all of creation. God can only give what He has, therefore all of creation will reflect in some way the nature of God. If your logic is followed to its conclusion it can lead only to some quasi form of pantheism.

My question to you would be, "Just how do we become the 'God kind'?". And what attributes should we expect to have manifest in our lives after entering such a state?


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Jeremy Hulsey

 2004/6/4 0:37Profile
smichael
Member



Joined: 2004/5/23
Posts: 21


 Re:

The verse from Phillipians explains how Jesus accomplished his work. That is how we accomplish our work. We are part of the Godhead as children of God. Just as my children are part of my family. They are of the same species as I am. I am a child of God so I am of His species. How do we become the God "kind": We must die to self. We must continually let God kill everything in us that is of the old man.
What attributes should we have: I Corinthians 13 love would be oozing I should think. Humility, wisdom, fruit of the spirit, righteousness, and peace.
The church is burdened with great sin and unproductiveness. There hasn't been a sweeping move of God in years. Why? Why does the church or the individual christian lack the power to clean and heal themselves? The world looks at us and they see no overcoming power. The church is dry. We deny our own birthright. I am not just a man.

I Corinthians 3:3
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

When we walk as men who are just humble and weak and human we cannot be in unity or act like the overcoming, victorious people that God has called us to. We are part of the Godhead. It is time we get that concept into our heart and humble ourselves to receive all the responsibility and power and love that comes with the new birth.

 2004/6/4 1:29Profile
Agent001
Member



Joined: 2003/9/30
Posts: 386
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re:

smichael,

Quote:
The verse from Phillipians explains how Jesus accomplished his work. That is how we accomplish our work. We are part of the Godhead as children of God. Just as my children are part of my family. They are of the same species as I am. I am a child of God so I am of His species. How do we become the God "kind": We must die to self. We must continually let God kill everything in us that is of the old man.

The language of [i]"He is God, so are we in this world,"[/i] (your own words) and the logic you have outlined here bears a lot of resemblance to Witness Lee's controversial teachings, justified by his followers using Athanasius' words, [i]"God became a man so that man can become God."[/i] I don't know if you are aware of that.

I think quite a number of the participants of these forums would be quite uncomfortable with this notion.


_________________
Sam

 2004/6/4 10:48Profile
Jimm
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 498
Harare, ZIMBABWE

 Re:

Hello again


This discussion has taken an interesting twist! Just to clarify, when we speak of God, do we speak of the trinity or do we speak of the Father? If it is indeed the trinity, then we are not the trinity by any means. Again, if it is the Father, I still do not see how we can be the Father…as the scripture says, “My Father, who has given them to Me, is GREATER THAN ALL; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.” (John 10:29) Another time, “Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is GREATER THAN I.” (John 14:28)

The Old Testament tells us that, “Joel 2:29 And also upon the SERVANTS and upon the HANDMAIDS in those days will I pour out my spirit.” Later however Jesus said in John 15:15, “ Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.” Either way as a friend or a servant we are not God. As Paul said in Romans 12, “3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.” He goes on to speak of us being members of a the body and Christ being the head of the body. Every part of the body is subject to the head and the must follow the head to maintain harmony. If for example, your legs were equal to you head, they may decide that today is actually not a good day for walking, in fact they may very well boycott walking altogether, you would be completely immobilized and powerless to do anything about it. For harmony there must be, in my opinion, one head, one sovereign and one God.

Paul says in Romans1:20, “1:20From the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.” This eternal power and divine nature is something we simply do not possess as human beings. Again Paul says in Romans 12:3, “For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.”

James


_________________
James Gabriel Gondai Dziya

 2004/6/4 11:50Profile
Matthew2323
Member



Joined: 2004/5/17
Posts: 235
Colorado

 Re:

James,

Thanks for the post. I was wondering that too. Wouldn't calling Christians God, infringe on the doctrine of the trinity?

Yes, dogs beget dogs and people beget people, but does God beget gods?

I think this was answered in John 3:16.


_________________
Matthew

 2004/6/4 12:25Profile
Agent001
Member



Joined: 2003/9/30
Posts: 386
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re:

Going back to the original question, I would like to add these comments:

The ruler's question was, "[i]Good[/i] teacher, what must I [b]do[/b] to inherit eternal life?" (In Matthew's version, "what [b]good thing[/b] must I [b]do[/b]...?")

In answer to that Jesus said, "Why do you call me [i]good[/i]? No one is [i]good[/i]--except God alone."

So the ruler was expecting a list of [i]good[/i] things to [b]do[/b] so that you could get eternal life.

Instead, Jesus pointed him to the [b]source of goodness[/b]--that is, God himself.


_________________
Sam

 2004/6/7 13:33Profile





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