Poster | Thread | LoveHim Member
Joined: 2007/6/14 Posts: 562 Indiana, US
| Re: | | Quote:
6. Remove them from the church if they ignore two warnings. Titus 3:10-11 says, "Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned." No pastor wants to do this, but at last resort you may need to remove the contentious person from the church. Youve got to protect the unity of your church. If that means getting rid of troublemakers, do it.
i think one thing that needs to be mentioned is that the word divisive in the NIV actually is the word heretic. it is not talking about just a man who disagrees with an issue or something like that, but someone who actually is teaching clear heresy. look at it for yourselves..
just a thought. phil
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| 2007/12/7 11:39 | Profile |
| Re: Hmmmmm ... Rick or Paul? ... | | Ginny... I would hope if I ever get a chance to sit down across a lunch with Rick Warren that the conversation would be warm and pleasant. Riddled with disagreement, of course, but pleasant none-the-less.
Kinda like Al Sharpton. Personally I think Al Sharpton is an idiot when it comes to some of his policies and such. However, I've seen him interviewed, etc... and found him to be a very personable man with a great sense of humor. I think I would actually enjoy spending an hour over lunch with him. I would completely disagree with most everything he stands for... but I think if we all look hard enough we can find something we like about anyone.
A person with a sense of humor can get a long ways with me... no matter how far apart we may be on everything else.
Krispy |
| 2007/12/7 11:40 | |
| Re: | | Quote:
i think one thing that needs to be mentioned is that the word divisive in the NIV actually is the word heretic. it is not talking about just a man who disagrees with an issue or something like that, but someone who actually is teaching clear heresy. look at it for yourselves..
I dont support the NIV in the slightest, but in this case it is correct. If you read these passages in context in the KJV, that is what it says as well... just different wording.
Krispy |
| 2007/12/7 11:42 | | LoveHim Member
Joined: 2007/6/14 Posts: 562 Indiana, US
| Re: | | Quote:
I dont support the NIV in the slightest, but in this case it is correct. If you read these passages in context in the KJV, that is what it says as well... just different wording.
Krispy
but here's the problem. this divisive/heretic of the bible was not someone who asks hard biblical questions concerning doctrine or the present teachings held by the church. but that is what some pastors have done. they have replaced the person asking hard questions and called them a divisive person and quoted this verse. but that is not the meaning of divisive (heretic) in the passage.
that is all i was trying to say. sorry if it didn't come out right..
phil |
| 2007/12/7 12:12 | Profile | lastblast Member
Joined: 2004/10/16 Posts: 528 Michigan
| Re: | | Quote:
2. Teach troublemakers to repent. 2 Timothy 2:25-26 (NIV) says, "Those who oppose him [the pastor] he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will." Most pastors dont like confrontations. But we cant run from them. As the pastor, you must gently instruct those creating dissention and opposing the teaching in the church.
Boy, isn't it interesting what Mr. Warren has done with II Tim. 2:25-26. He has made it about opposing the Pastor, yet that is not at all what scripture says:
"2 Timothy 2:25-26 (Amplified Bible) 25He must correct his opponents with courtesy and gentleness, in the hope that God may grant that they will repent and come to know the Truth [that they will perceive and recognize and become accurately acquainted with and acknowledge it], 26And that they may come to their senses [and] escape out of the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him, [henceforth] to do His [God's] will."
It is clear that a "church's" teachings is not at issue here. Paul is speaking about those who oppose TRUTH---God's truth, not an individual church's teachings/practices, which may very well be opposed to the Truth.
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As pastors, as shepherds of Gods people, its our job to protect our congregations from Satans greatest weapon disunity.
Disunity is not only Satan's weapon, it is also something the Lord uses to purge the unclean from the clean, to reveal Truth in the midst of deception. God did it throughout the OT through His prophets and He is still doing it today through His servants(pastors, laypeople, and even the unsaved who can even see some of the inconsistancies in the Christian Church). The truth is that there can be no true unity in the Body of Christ if we are walking in opposition to Jesus Christ. _________________ Cindy
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| 2007/12/7 12:17 | Profile |
| Re: | | This PDL or CGM is an epidemic in church across America and pastors are bending their knee to this "heresy". Pastors subscribe to this method to stroke there own ego's, when I hear this type of non sense coming from these pastors, I often would like to send the the sermon Ten Shekels and a shirt. The end to their means is themselves not the Lord.
I meet with my pastor after my family decided to leave and his own words, "We need to culturally relevant to our community" here is an example on how the church is relevant:
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"If you prefer a worship band over the choir and a smaller worship environment, our Venue service offers a live praise band, coffee, and a live Hi-Definition broadcast of Pastor Tom's message on a 16' screen - all in a laid back atmosphere.[/qoute] another quote Quote:
"People don't come to church to watch TV, they come for a live experience."
1 Cor. 9:22 " ...to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some."
This is verse is the catalyst they use, to give them all the reason to do what they feel is relevant. This was the same verse my pastor used with me to describe why they do the things they do. If that is the case, then everything else should be exceptable.
mike
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| 2007/12/8 9:18 | | ginnyrose Member
Joined: 2004/7/7 Posts: 7534 Mississippi
| Re: | | I was about to write that one can spend so much time lamenting this trend in modern Christianity that we lose focus of our own mission. Then I was reminded of one reason why godly people get so upset - including me. We are so hurt, so appalled when we see our own loved ones snuckered into this whorl of deception...and they are loving it!!! I have prayed already that God would give them a vision of hell sometime, but I have not heard that happening, either. I would guess even that would not convince them.
Takes a lot of faith sometimes when we see TRUTH assailed as not being consistant.
ginnyrose _________________ Sandra Miller
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| 2007/12/8 18:49 | Profile |
| Re: Rick Warren and his Friends. | | I think the biggest shock was finding out, Rick Warren was a member of the CFR and Oxford Analytica.
Oy, ma ma mia, that's Major!
I don't know why that was a bigger shock to me than his P.E.A.C.E. plan being tied to the U.N. and him having Hillary to his Church -- but it was.
I must be a "trouble-maker". :-? |
| 2007/12/10 0:26 | | wildhorse86 Member
Joined: 2005/5/20 Posts: 87
| Re: | | Interesting that you mention the peace plan. It is a good theory, on paper - one church connecting with another to help people. I know there is more to it than that, but the above seems pretty reasonable even for Warren.
However, I felt uneasy about the whole PEACE plan deal, I don't know why -- and it is interesting because our Young Adult congregation, that I am a part of, were looking into it and praying for God to guide us in it. I haven't heard mention of it for 5 months or so. No one seems to jump on board with it.
A lot of people(excluding myself and others) got all hyped about it, and then the hype fizzled down and nothing has happened.
Michael |
| 2007/12/10 0:53 | Profile |
| Re: | | I have been through the 40 days of purpose class twice and it has some good stuff in it. God does have a purpose for each one of us. It is reported that Rick Warren has given 90% of his income off his book sales back to the church, which is much much money. But when he begins to compromise with the world and is letting the world speak to what is suppose to be the regenerated church, instead of reaching the lost, with the gospel of a regeneration in the heart, he lost me. I definitely[u] could not[/u] knowingly attend any church service where the Pastor knew about such, let alone allowed and invited such a worldly speaker that promoted UNGODLY stuff and was still allowed to speak about any subject, good or bad, unless the speech was about repentance of their sins. If it happened at the local body where I attend next Sunday and I don't think it will, I would walk out of the service and search for one that held fast to the WORD and truth. So I guess I'm a troublemaker too. Of course yall already knew that didn't you. |
| 2007/12/11 17:06 | |
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