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allhavsinned
Member



Joined: 2005/8/1
Posts: 201
North West England

 Hearing God? not Todd friel

I've been listening to Way of the master Radio (WOTM) for over a year now and I have noticed that Todd Friel keeps mentioning things which I frankly disagree with.

I do think he's a good Christian who has the heart of an Evangelist, but there are a few points he mentions from time to time which I think are unscriptural. Sure he'll give you a reference to back up what he says but I'm not convinced.

There are a few but let's just discuss one of them here. Does God Speak to us today?
He will say 'yes' through the bible and by asking Godly friends and Pastors, we can learn God's will. But if you suggest that God actually SPEAKS using His voice, well then you're hit with ridicule. Both he and Ray Comfort (and I've heard them say this) will laugh; 'What? you're hearing voices and you think it's God?'

Now I guess to be fair I will give you more input on what I have heard, Todd does believe that God can do anything and so he'll say that God CAN speak to you if He wants to. The argument that he uses is that there are no more revelations and that God has spoken through the Bible and He doesn't need to say any more. Following that point (which I agree with) Todd goes on to say that because God has no more to say he doesn't 'talk' to us and if we thought He had told us something that is a new revelation and therefore not God doing the speaking.

However if you listen to say Carter Conlon, Paris Reidhead and other men of God they will mention when God has spoken to them, Carter told of a time when he was driving past a plot of land and God told him that he (Carter) would soon be living on that land. (and it did happen). Paris Reidhead in 10 Shekels says 'and I heard a voice echoing down from the ages "do I not deserve those fo whom I died"'

I do realise we shouldn't listen to everything that pops into our head, but becoming more Christ like is learning to hear His voice (My sheep know my voice Jn 10:27) and obeying it.

Personally I have found God does speak to me- yes it's a voice in my head and it sounds just like my own thoughts - This voice gives me guicence (this is the way, walk ye in it. Isa 30:21), rebuke, things like 'that's enough chocolate' and 'go and apologise to your wife' encouragement - this is not so much as words as an image of him holding my hand, smiling etc (these are vague impressions don't be asking me 'what does He look like').

I remember once asking Him why I couldn't be like all those 'Christians' who do nothing, why do I have to go out and preach. His words were very clear; 'because people would die and go to hell if you didn't warn them'. Another time I had to go and confess a sin to a friend, I really didn't want to it was so bad, again (in a loving way, not harshly) I asked what would happen if I didn't and the answer I got was, not like a vision, again just a vague impression, nothing specific, but this is what I 'heard' if I didn't confess, I would believe myself to have 'got away with it' and the next time I am temped to sin in that way I would fall, that act of sin would be discovered and would be distroy my family (I got the idea that I would end up in prison).

To put my beliefs on the table; I believe that God does speak to us, He speaks in a still small voice, easy to ignore and drown out, He often gives us verses of scripture (that pop into our mind), and He also gives us guidance verbally, with pictures or these hard to define vague impressions. I also believe that just because people have voices in their heads doesn't mean that it's God. I hear the voice of the enemy too, he often says things like 'go on, you know you can just repent of it later'. And I have my own voice of course, it's like a party in my head!;-) No seriously, do any of you understand this, could you perhaps put it in simpler terms.

I'm not calling Todd but I find it anoying that he has his cessational beliefs and he uses the radio show to coax us on to his side, I am nearly to the point of stopping listening but there is so much good stuff on his show. Why not write to him? Because I've heard his reply's when people write in, he gives his opinion, chucks in a scripture or mentions a name like John McArthur, and moves on to another subject, if someone phones in and disagrees, he does something similar and then cuts them off. And then has the audacity to say 'It's good you are calling in with your criticisms, I'm not perfect and I like to be shown where you think I'm wrong.

This is a bit long and I still haven't said everything but I'll open it up to you lot.

Steve


_________________
Ste

 2007/11/28 18:00Profile
MSeaman
Member



Joined: 2005/4/19
Posts: 772
Michigan

 Re: Hearing God? not Todd friel

I am also a listener of WOTM, and am in perfect agreement with all you have said.


_________________
Melissa

 2007/11/28 19:46Profile
intrcssr83
Member



Joined: 2005/10/28
Posts: 246
Logan City, Queensland, Australia

 Re: Hearing God? not Todd friel

Hi Steve,

From the sound of it, Todd does seem to be in the cessationist camp with regards to this issue.

However, if you've heard any of Ray Comfort's older sermons (specifically "Why the lack of Power in the Church"), it's obvious that he is charismatic in viewpoint. Also, his is an ordained pastor under Calvary Chapel plus he has made appearances on Joyce Meyer's TV show.

As for Kirk Cameron, the last two weeks of John MacArthur's "Grace to You" video podcasts featured Kirk giving his testimony. Kirk has also said on WOTMR that when he leads people to Christ, he directs them to the alumni department the of Master's Seminary.

I honestly think this is interesting. Todd seems to be of the more Reformed side (cessationist, more calvinistic) whereas Ray is more akin to the "Holiness" preachers among the old-school pentacostals such as Ravenhill, Tozer, Reidhead. In the audio version of "Hell's Best Kept Secret", Ray recounts that early in his US ministry, David Wilkerson had him fly from California to New York to preach at Times Square Church.

The fact that these men can come together in unity to form a ministry under a common vision is an example to be learned from.


_________________
Benjamin Valentine

 2007/11/28 22:00Profile
hulsey
Moderator



Joined: 2006/7/5
Posts: 640
Missouri

 Re:

If Todd Friel is attending the church John MacArthur pastors as Ray Comfort does, then he is, most likely, a cessasionist. On this point I would disagree with this brother as I do with Ray Comfort, and John MacArthur.

This is something that as Paul said in Philippians that the Lord will make clear to us in due time on those debatable points.


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SI Moderator - Jeremy Hulsey

 2007/11/28 22:10Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: Hearing God? not Todd friel

Hi everyone.



allhavsinned, how are you?


I hope it will be alright to leave a short comment here. Maybe it expresses something of your concerns too.





It is hard to imagine we could be united to God and be left [b]uninspired[/b].




Wish you all well in God,



Chris



_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/11/28 22:56Profile
Lawevangelis
Member



Joined: 2004/10/9
Posts: 97
Justin, TX

 Re: Hearing God? not Todd friel

allhavsinned,

Whatever Paris Reidhead or Carter Conlon says is irrelevant, just as whatever Todd and Ray says is irrelevant. What matters is what the Word of God says. What you have described regarding "leading" or "God's voice" is not based on anything in the Word of God (except some verses that you have taken out of context), but is something that you have taken to be God speaking with you when it could in fact be you speaking to you in your thoughts.

That's why it's so important to let the Word of God be the source of our guidance and not our own thoughts. Those are relative. His Word is absolute and there is no doubt where that came from.

Blessings,

Jon


_________________
Jon Speed

 2007/11/29 0:28Profile
allhavsinned
Member



Joined: 2005/8/1
Posts: 201
North West England

 Re:

Hi Chris, yes I'm fine thanks, just been a bit too busy to come here for a while.

Jon, you're post is interesting, it's so vague that it's difficult to disagree with. we all here recognise that it's not what people say but what the bible says, that't why I'm asking about Todd and how others think of the matter, you see there are a lot of things that the bible are silent on, so it's left to us to debate.

I like the way you say I take a bible verse out of context but don't show how or what the 'real' context is, that bad apologetics (or is it bad herminutics?) anyway, Jon nail your flag to the mast what do you believe, does God speak to us audibly today (as in the OT to the prophets) or not. And don't forget to back up what you say with scripture (in context ;-))

I hope you take this post in the attitude it's written, I'm not having a go at anyone, just want to ask about others and their experiences.

Steve


_________________
Ste

 2007/11/29 1:01Profile









 Re:

I haven't chance to listen him first time am hearing this.

 2007/11/29 1:34
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

God does speak to us, sometimes we just don't have the ears to listen. Sometimes we hear the voices of man, and what man tells us to hear, over what God wants us to hear.

He speaks to us in dreams and visions. People seem to forget about the dream arena.

He speaks audible to us. I have no scripture that says "I have spoken to Miccah", but He has.

He speaks to us through other people and examples. HOw many times have you been reading, listening to something that you feel that teh Lord leads you to, next thing you know on Sunday, that exact verse is spoken about, or someone tells you about this same verse that you have been stuck on.

The Lord speaks to us, do we have the fortitude to truly listen?


_________________
Christiaan

 2007/11/29 1:55Profile
MikeH
Member



Joined: 2006/9/21
Posts: 116


 Re:

This is one of those topics, where I wonder why there is even any debate. How can anyone think that for 4,000 years or so God was speaking, and then when the bible was finished, He said, "That's it, here's the book get on with it, don't expect to hear from Me again until you get to heaven." Of course, He still speaks today. The reason we have the bible is to avoid a lot of repetition and so that we are not led astray by deceiving spirits into error. (This is not an definitive list of reasons.)

If you have any doubts, try a couple of experiments. If your a father, find your child's diary and hug it and tell it you love the child, who wrote the diary. Now try it with the child. Did you notice any difference? If your married, go and find your wife's diary, give it a hug and whisper sweet nothings to it. Now try the same with your wife. Again, any difference? God is our Father, Christ is the bridegroom of the Church, why would they not want to speak to us?

Now it isn't always clear whether we have heard right, for Paul writes: [color=009900]1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.[/color] so the bible and godly advice is a useful backstop to keep us from making bad mistakes or plunging into error, but God not speaking today, I don't think so! This is getting a bit too close to those theologians that said God is dead! Very dangerous ground.

MikeH

 2007/11/29 4:43Profile





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