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Netpreacher
Member



Joined: 2004/5/22
Posts: 9
Portland, OR

 Unelected Children

Before I even attempt to ask this question, which I will assume is not the first time this has been asked, I would like you all to know that my objective is not to argue, debate, or destroy anyone's faith in Christ Jesus; I only want to initiate a lively discussion concerning the scriptural definition of the doctrines of grace.

If a child dies at the age of six months, and is not one of the elect, where will that child spend eternity?


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Danny Howe

 2004/5/27 21:26Profile
KeithLaMothe
Member



Joined: 2004/3/28
Posts: 354


 Re: Unelected Children

I've no answer to offer (at this time) to that question, it would require more study than I've done.

However, I'm curious about an aspect of the question: "the age of six months." Why 6 months? Why not a year? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? 40 years?

I'm trying to figure out if there's an implicit assumption of an "age of accountability" before which we are either not judged according to our works or are not "guilty enough" (for lack of a better term) to deserve hell?

Thanks for raising the question, by the way. It's not something important to me personally (I know God will do right, whatever right is) but it's an extremely common question (in somewhat different form) from nonbelievers and new believers.

 2004/5/27 22:15Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2736
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Unelected Children

There has been some previous discussions on this board concerning the 'age of accountability' and 'original sin', here is a link;

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1004&forum=36#5475]Age of Accountability[/url]

The thread above contains a link to the 'original sin' thread.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2004/5/27 23:06Profile
jeremyhulsey
Member



Joined: 2003/4/18
Posts: 777


 Re: Unelected Children

Quote:
If a child dies at the age of six months, and is not one of the elect, where will that child spend eternity?



Well, from a Calvinistic point of view, if a person is not one of the elect then it doesn't matter if he's 6 months or 600 years old, he will go to hell.

Now from an Arminiast position, all are potentially apart of the elect and there is much speculation on when one becomes accoutable for their actions. So in that respect, since the Bible is silent, as far as I know, I would have to say, "I don't know."

In Christ,
Jeremy Hulsey


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Jeremy Hulsey

 2004/5/27 23:44Profile
rocklife
Member



Joined: 2004/4/1
Posts: 323
usa

 Re:

God is merciful, just, righteous, and loving. Whatever He does is right.

I don't know the answer to this question, but God is always right in His judgment.


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Jina

 2004/5/28 0:20Profile
Nasher
Member



Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Re: Unelected Children

Hi Netpreacher, please tell me what sin(s) a 6 month old child can commit?


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Mark Nash

 2004/5/28 4:44Profile
dougkristen
Member



Joined: 2004/1/28
Posts: 360


 Re: Unelected Children

We had to ask this questions many times before 5 years ago when my wife was pregnant and in her 38th week, our son Isaiah died before he was born (stilborn). Is he with the Lord or going to hell? I have heard sincere Christian friends tell me to my wife and I both.

Grace,
Doug

His Ways are much higher than mine...


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a Jesus freak

 2004/5/28 6:58Profile
5nva
Member



Joined: 2003/8/15
Posts: 179


 Re:

Netpreacher:

I do not know of any scripture that really answers this question. I would have to say I am in the same boat as Hulsey said. I for one do not believe in the calvanistic doctrine of election so my opinion a baby goes to be with the Lord. It is up to God though. However, Jesus said "let the little children come unto me".

My wife and I have had four children die after being born. They were not still births, they were breathing living babies that had complications and only lived a short time. We held them, loved them and prayed that God would intervene and let them live. For what ever reason God chose in His sovereignty not to let them live. My wife and I trust that our children Grace, Ashton and twins Rachel and Benjamin are with our Lord and Savior.

In Christ,

Mike


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Mike

 2004/5/28 9:31Profile
Matthew2323
Member



Joined: 2004/5/17
Posts: 235
Colorado

 Re:

Consider the words of King David.

He said, "While the child was {still} alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, 'Who knows, the LORD may be gracious to me, that the child may live.' "But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? [b]I will [u]go to him[/u], but he will not return to me.[/b]"
2 Samuel 12:22-23

For those parents please note all throughout Scripture how God is faithful to [b]families[/b].

For the LORD is good; His lovingkindness is everlasting And His faithfulness to all generations.
Psalm 100:5

. . .but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Exodus 20:6

God bless,
Matthew


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Matthew

 2004/5/28 9:59Profile
Netpreacher
Member



Joined: 2004/5/22
Posts: 9
Portland, OR

 Re: Very Surprised, and Humbled

It seems this board likes to tread lightly on issues they do not believe Scripture plainly reveals. This is a strong point, and I congratulate all those who responed with dignity, respect, honor, and meekness; truly these qualities alone reveal your characters loudly.

The Scriptures reveal to us concerning the fate of children when they die. Jesus tells us many places in the Gospels to allow little children to come to Him, for the Kingdom of God is made for them. In order to even enter the Kingdom, you must become like a child. This tells me that all children, regardless of religious background, will be in heaven.

Now, concerning the question of "age of accountability," there are no clear references or passages in Scripture that even declare the doctrine of this "age," nor can I truly find anything to refute it either. However, from what I have been taught (not from God, but from man, whatever this may be worth) and believe that once a child receives an order they purposely disobey, or receives a law from either conscience or parent or authority figure that they consciously disobey, disregarding consequences for the sake of personal satisfaction or other individual's sake, they have committed sin and are found guilty before God, by which they will then need at least the atoning sacrifice of Christ for the remission of sins acted. All children require the second Adam's sacrifice for the atonement of the Adamic curse of death, however, Jesus Christ's death on the cross is only effectual for sins only when they are committed. Now, I understand this may sound Pelagian, but I do believe that children still need the sacrifice of Christ in order to deal with the curse of Adam; I do believe also that the sacrifice of Christ for the remission of sins can only take place once sins have been actually committed. Sin is the trangression of the law, and where there is no law, then there is no sin; therefore, if a child does not comprehend law, then that child cannot consciously act against that law. However, the law of God is written upon our hearts; whether this is done at birth or not, I do not know: if so, then my whole belief system must be escorted out the door of my heart and be replaced by the truth of the word of God as revealed by His Spirit (for of no private interpretation can any Scripture be read). If there is no law, then there is no sin; a child by nature will tend towards disobedience if left to itself, so law naturally will bring them to Christ, and if they disobey that law willfully, then the law has done its job, bringing guilt and condemnation upon the child once the understanding of guilt and sin has been revealed, which now requires the use of a Savior. Can a child live without sin its entire life? Of course not; nothing on earth can do that, except for a virgin birth, which already has been accomplished.

Hopefully, I have answered any contentions that might arise from such a response, and if I may have left anything out, I am absolutely sure I will be notified as soon as this is posted. Praise the LORD Jesus Christ, the risen Son of God!

Love, In Christ Jesus,
Danny

PS Pelagius is a heretic with a crooked view of redemption; all have sinned and fallen short, and the response is to the question of the period of when the actual age of accountability begins, which my answer would be, "The age of accountabiliy begins at the time whenever the child willfully disobeys a clear command given by God, parent, or other authority figure regardless of consequence."


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Danny Howe

 2004/6/4 2:25Profile





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