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Discussion Forum : General Topics : In God We Trust

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Peacemaker
Member



Joined: 2006/9/3
Posts: 48
Bakersfield, California

 In God We Trust

Should Christians advocate and argue political agendas such as striving to post the "In God we Trust" motto in public schools, in local municipalities, and/or do such things as post the ten commandments in court rooms?


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Robert P. Fairman, Jr.

 2007/11/17 15:05Profile
Peacemaker
Member



Joined: 2006/9/3
Posts: 48
Bakersfield, California

 Re: In God We Trust

I guess I'll expand - I believe that despite the Bible's apparent lack of political endorsement - it seems that in a democracy we as Christian's have a duty to participate in the public debate. In our town - Bakersfield California, we recently saw this occur in our school board. What is disturbing is that even though the board voted to place the national motto into the school within a nice collage of our former motto E Pluribus Unum, the constitution, the bill of rights, and the declaration of independence, many Christians were non supportive. The primary reason for this was because the school board member who brought the proposal was a pastor. Some of his comments about the oppostion was at time a little over the top, however by and large he was respectful, humble, but persistent in his position. Question - should we be so concerned as Christians as being percieved to be unrighteous, intolerant, unmerciful, etc. such that we avoid the public debate about the role of "God" in society? The alternative seems to be the fundamentalist position of the doctrine of seperation - ie that light should have no fellowship with darkness, whatsover in spirtitual matters, and should therefore remain separate. It has been said about Christians - they are the only army in the world that shoots its own wounded.


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Robert P. Fairman, Jr.

 2007/11/17 15:24Profile
HomeFree89
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 Re:

The early Christians didn't waste their time lobbying for this type of thing. They were worshiping God, fellowshiping with each other, or out reaching the lost.

I know we don't like the thought of it being taken off of our money, etc, but I don't think it's going to help us one way or the other. Yes it's nice to have this around us, but it doesn't show what most Americans really believe. Their actions show it and trying to do away with this motto only shows what's in their hearts.

The best way to get God into society is to live how we're supposed to live and witness the way Christ commanded us to.

Jordan


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Jordan

 2007/11/17 17:13Profile









 Re: In God We Trust

Quote:

Peacemaker wrote:
Should Christians advocate and argue political agendas such as striving to post the "In God we Trust" motto in public schools, in local municipalities, and/or do such things as post the ten commandments in court rooms?

Hi Peacemaker.

Not all of us here are American, so maybe your question could be rephrased to allow the rest of us to join in? ;-) For example, "Should Christians be involved in Politics?"

The erosion of, and direct attack on our Christian heritage is happening in other Western nations too.

For a long time I would, like Jordan, have answered "no" to the question of political involvement, or being active in things such as you mention. Partly because of having a negative interest in politics, partly because of being brought up in "old school" evangelicalism, where it was considered that we should concentrate on more "spiritual" matters.

However, wouldn't our nations be in an even worse state than they are if there were no Christian politicians? They may be ignored, ridiculed or passed over for promotion, but they are salt and light nevertheless.

And, whether or not we feel led to have any direct political involvement, we are at least [i][u]commanded[/u] to pray[/i] for our leaders.

2Timothy 2:1-4 [color=990000] 1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 [u]For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour[/u];
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.[/color]

in Him

Jeannette

 2007/11/18 13:38
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re: In God We Trust

Ephes. 6:12-20
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. [13] Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. [14] Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; [15] And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; [16] Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. [17] And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: [18] Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; [19] And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel, [20] For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.


 2007/11/18 13:52Profile









 Re:

Perhaps the question to be considered is more the "what" and "how" than the "if" of our involvement?

Any action in our nation's affairs has to spring from much prayer, and seeking God for what we should do. Otherwise no amount of political activity or agitation for right standards, the 10 Commandments in court rooms etc will do any good.

(By the way, having the 10 Commandments in courtrooms is, as far as I'm aware, unknown in the UK - we are probably even further down the line of rebellion against our Christian heritage than you!)

How did the saints of Biblical times get involved? There is little recorded in the New Testament, but this doesn't mean that Christians didn't get involved, only that the New Testament was more concerned with other issues.

But the early Church was founded on Judaism and familiar with on the OT scriptures, (most of the New testament wasn't written yet!) which do give examples of political involvement - in government and the political scene in general.

There were statesmen and leaders, such as Joseph, Nehemiah and Daniel, in the midst of pagan nations, who stood for the Lord.

And the prophets, who often had no status in the eyes of rulers, boldly confronted those same rulers with the Truth about social injustices and other sins. Some lost their lives as a result.


Blessings


Jeannette

 2007/11/18 13:54
HomeFree89
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 Re:

Hi Jeannette,

You're right, there are "politicians" in the OT, but I think there's a big difference between those and today's modern politicians.

People like Joseph and Daniel were placed there by God for a purpose. They weren't there because they thought believers should be involved in politics.

Also, the way government is run and handled today makes it almost impossible to be involved and not compromise. Joseph fled when temptation to sin and compromise was presented to him and Daniel went right against the king's law. I don't know how it's run over in the UK, but many bills that are passed here have riders that would make someone who's voting on the main biil compromise. It may be a good bill, but then a rider is attached which may give license to some sin, etc.

I don't think it's wrong to make an appeal and present the truth to our leaders, but we, as Christians, shouldn't get so consumed with "being light" that we neglect the other things Christ commanded us to do. It probably shouldn't be our main concern, is what I'm trying to say. :-)

Jordan


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Jordan

 2007/11/18 16:13Profile









 Re:

Quote:

HomeFree89 wrote:
Hi Jeannette,

You're right, there are "politicians" in the OT, but I think there's a big difference between those and today's modern politicians.

People like Joseph and Daniel were placed there by God for a purpose. They weren't there because they thought believers should be involved in politics.

Hi there :-)

Don't you think that God could also send some into politics [i][u]for a purpose[/u][/i] in these days too?

Quote:
Also, the way government is run and handled today makes it almost impossible to be involved and not compromise. Joseph fled when temptation to sin and compromise was presented to him and Daniel went right against the king's law.

Re Daniel I think he found it almost impossible too, but he still wouldn't yield, even in the face of probably losing his life!

Quote:
I don't know how it's run over in the UK, but many bills that are passed here have riders that would make someone who's voting on the main biil compromise. It may be a good bill, but then a rider is attached which may give license to some sin, etc.

I'm not sure about how that works in the situation here. As I said, I'm not "into" politics either, but think that God [i]does[/i] call some to be involved, and to stand firm for Him, whatever the cost.

If the Party in power in the UK has a bill they want to force through, they will put a "Three-line Whip" on it. The "whips" are the Party enforcers. If it's a three line whip, apparently the MP's (members of Parliament) are sent a message that they MUST attend, and vote on the issue, and the message is underlined [i]three[/i] times, (there's also a two-line whip, not quite as mandatary), meaning they HAVE TO vote according to their party's policy, whether they want to or not. If the vote is especially important and likely to be close, the Whips will personally visit MP's who might vote against in order to persuade them.

There have even been tales of whips threatenting MP's who try to refuse. Not physically (at least I should hope not!) but by threatening to expose some shady goings-on in their past. In other words, blackmail.


Anyone who disobeys the three-line whip is punished by being excluded from taking part in government for a while (like a football player being suspended for misbehaviour). If they persist in rebelling they may be excluded from the party and lose their seat in government altogether.

Quote:
I don't think it's wrong to make an appeal and present the truth to our leaders, but we, as Christians, shouldn't get so consumed with "being light" that we neglect the other things Christ commanded us to do. It probably shouldn't be our main concern, is what I'm trying to say. :-)

Jordan

I agree 100%! The point I was making was only that the Lord might call Christians to be involved in politics. Maybe for a season only, maybe as a career.

I was just listening to an interview with Joshua C Rosenberg, who was a White House aide at one time, and has written several Christian novels based on his experience and insight into Biblical prophecy and world events. Many of you would have heard of him. One was written just [i]before[/i] 9/11, and is about a plane attack almost the same as actually happened!

(http://www.crossroads.ca/broadcas/rosenberg.php)

Blessings

Jeannette

 2007/11/18 17:53









 Re:

Coin has two sides,both are valid.

 2007/11/18 20:42
rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re: In God We Trust


How can you know who is speaking the truth in a secular society? Western civilization has lasted in spite of the abandonment of its founding principles, not because of its adoptive secular principles but by the will of Almighty God. Don’t look back, “keep your eyes on Jesus and the things of this world will grow strangely dim”..

You name the three worst presidents in the U. S. A. in my life time, I voted for two of them.


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Eddie

 2007/11/19 8:58Profile





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