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InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2736
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
Acts 1:8
"but you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."

Again, first of all, Church universal or contemporary individual application?



I believe the correct answer to this question is, both. The call to fellowship with God is both to individuals and to the Church as a whole. So also is the call to our vocation, our real service to God. Our vocational calling springs from and is only possible through fellowship. This vocation of ours relates to the nations;

[i]Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.[/i]
(Jeremiah 1:5)

We are called, just as Jeremiah was, to this heavenly purpose and prophetic ministry, both as individuals and as a Body and God provides the endowment to meet that responsibility.

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2004/6/2 21:14Profile
matthew
Member



Joined: 2004/4/22
Posts: 57


 Re:

I would like to ask two questions for clarification to two different posters.

First jnp,

Quote:
But I am to show them such compassion and respect that they will ask me why I have so much hope.



Is there a bible verse that says we are to wait until we are asked to open our mouth?

Secondly Ron,

Quote:
We are called, just as Jeremiah was, to this heavenly purpose and prophetic ministry



do you mean that we are all, like Jeremiah called to the ofice of a prophet?

also, is there other scripture that shows a VOCATIONAL calling. that is a teaching I have not heard (or maybe have purposly ignored). Either way, I am unfamilliar and would like biblical clarification.

thanks

matthew


_________________
matthew bauer

 2004/6/3 13:26Profile
Agent001
Member



Joined: 2003/9/30
Posts: 386
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re:

Todd:

I see you have caused quite a stir again by your understanding of Matthew 28:18-20. (How did the discussion on "prosperity" in the scriptures go?)

After reviewing all of your posts in this thread, I think I can see the underlying reasons for your re-interpretation of the Great Commission. I will state my conclusions first: [i]I believe your underlying concerns are valid, but your interpretation of Matt 28:18b-20 needs clarification.[/i]

[b]First,[/b] your underlying concerns. You seem to be very concerned about how some Christians try to convince others to consistently participate in evangelism (narrowly understood as verbal communication of gospel truth) simply because it is a Christian's duty and the Lord's command. You are concerned that these Christians might be "burdened under religious yokes," such that verbal evangelism becomes a "requirement" to be fulfilled, or worse, a "rule" that is to be strictly followed. Hence, you have an issue with "doing it out of some religious motive with the kind of mindset that you have to do it to be loved and accepted by God." I totally agree that evangelising [i]merely[/i] out of duty is ill-advised, and can easily fall into legalism.

Because of these concerns, you cited R. A. Torrey's five prerequisites for evangelism, emphasising that evangelism must be done with "sincerity and right motives" (2nd prereq.) and that evangelism must be done in the power of the Holy Spirit (5th prereq.). I heartily agree with you on this.

[b]Second,[/b] interpretation of Matt. 18b-20. I believe your unique interpretation of these verses grew out of the underlying concerns just mentioned.

The thrust of your argument is simple. You argued that these verses were only directed to the disciples of Jesus and applied specifically to them. Making a distinction between the universal church and modern individuals, you further argued that even if the application of this verse were to be extended, it would apply only to the "Church Universal," not the individual.

On this basis, an interesting understanding emerges: the Church as a corporate Body is to carry on this Commission, whereas [i]some[/i] individuals within this Body may not engage in evangelism (again, narrowly understood as verbal witnessing to unbelievers). To you, part of the underlying appeal to this understanding is that "we have breathing room to be dealt with individually by God and not be burdened under religious yokes."

My understanding is as follow:

[b][i]First,[/i][/b] I think the Great Commission is intended to be applied to [b]all[/b] disciples of Jesus, from the first century to present. For instance, a strong hint is given at the conclusion of the Great Commission (and of the Gospel of Matthew) (v. 20)--[i]"to the very end of the age"[/i]--a phrase that most commentators agree refers to the time of the [i]eschaton,[/i] the second coming of the Son of Man as King and Judge. Hence, it is a Commission that is to be carried on until the end times.

[b][i]Second,[/i][/b] the Great Commission should not be narrowly understood as verbal witnessing to unbelievers. It stated the [b]goals[/b] (to [i]"make disciples"[/i] and to [i]"teach them"[/i]) but did not mention the method. It should include all means, verbal and non-verbal, by which the power of the gospel is demonstrated.

[i][b]Third,[/b][/i] the distinction between the Church and the individuals should not be pushed too far. We [i]are[/i] the Church, the Body of Christ. The Lord's command to the Church naturally applies to individual members of the Body. Thus, the Great Commission is for every Christian. We should all engage in evangelism, both individually and corporately. "Evangelism" here though, does not exclusively mean verbal preaching or witnessing, however it will nevertheless be an important part to it.

Experience shows that even at times when we feel unprepared for, opportunities to speak for Christ and to make a testimony for him in our [i]daily conversations[/i] often arise by the providence of God. Indeed, evangelism is a [b]lifestyle,[/b] one that every Christian should live. We may not feel called to go on the streets to preach, but by the way we live and by the way we speak, we witness Christ to others. And insofar as we do engage in daily conversations with friends and colleagues, if Christ is really the controlling paradigm of our lives, it is virtually impossible for the topic of faith to not come up once in a while.

[i][b]Finally,[/b][/i] I agree with your concern that some Christians might fall into [i]legalism[/i]. However, I would say the Great Commission applies to all of us; it is a call for us to engage in evangelism as a lifestyle. Nevertheless, it should never be used as a [i]legalistic rule;[/i] After all, Jesus was the one who opposed legalism most vehemently.

P.S. Rebecca Manley Pipert's book, "Out of the Saltshaker and into the World" is an excellent book on evangelism as a lifestyle.


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Sam

 2004/6/3 16:30Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2736
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
Secondly Ron,

Quote:
We are called, just as Jeremiah was, to this heavenly purpose and prophetic ministry

do you mean that we are all, like Jeremiah called to the ofice of a prophet?

also, is there other scripture that shows a VOCATIONAL calling. that is a teaching I have not heard (or maybe have purposly ignored). Either way, I am unfamilliar and would like biblical clarification.



[i]And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.[/i]
(Revelation 19:10)

Our vocation (and apparently angels too), is to testify of the Lord Jesus, by the same Spirit which inspired the prophets of old. The way of bearing this witness, the substance and essence of this testimony is the Spirit of prophecy.

You may want to listen to a T.A. Sparks series of sermons called Vocational Fellowship, this is excellent ministry and highly recommended;

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=1407]Vocational Fellowship Part 1[/url]

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=1408]Vocational Fellowship Part 2[/url]

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=1409]Vocational Fellowship Part 3[/url]

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=1410]Vocational Fellowship Part 4[/url]

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=1411]Vocational Fellowship Part 5[/url]

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=1412]Vocational Fellowship Part 6[/url]

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2004/6/3 20:41Profile
smichael
Member



Joined: 2004/5/23
Posts: 21


 Re:

Matthew I reply with the Word of God regarding the supposed lack of official occupation for evangelists in the body.
Ephesians 4:11-13
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets;p and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ

The word "gave" is didomi meaning (supply, furnish, give something to someone, something to be administered, to furnish, endue, to appoint to an office, and there is more strongs's 1325)

Quite a few people deliver and birth children, but not everyone is a doctor. But in a situation that calls for me to deliver I am more than capable.
"I can do all things through Christ..." but that does not mean I am called to the office of evangelism.

 2004/6/3 22:39Profile
smichael
Member



Joined: 2004/5/23
Posts: 21


 Re:

Re Ron and the
Jeremiah comment

I understand what you mean by prophetic ministry, I think. You are saying there are two streams in the church right now the evangelical and propetic. The prophetic is a term that implies a God-centered view and a maturing in spiritual matters that the evangelical does not address. There is a difference between the prophet and the prophetic. The prophet is a person who is called to be a mouthpiece for God. The prophetic is an adjective that describes the noun more fully. We are not all called to be Jeremiah. By the way there were plenty of prophets besides Jeremiah. Some of us our called to be of the other 5 ministries and some are called into business, and other secular missions that we are to be victorious in. God wants His people everywhere. He wants His presense felt all over. Its time to make the devil sweat.
By the way the verses supporting the difference between the prophetic and evangelistic view?
Hebrews 5 and 6
Let's not lay again the first things but move into perfection.

 2004/6/4 1:41Profile
Netpreacher
Member



Joined: 2004/5/22
Posts: 9
Portland, OR

 Re: Public Proclamation of the Gospel Required By Believers

Most of the Scriptures pertaining to proclaming the Gospel of Jesus Christ has already been mentioned, but I would like to share the Scriptures pertaining to certain aspects of public ministry, and what I believe the Bible tells us concerning its requirement.

OPEN-AIR PREACHING

Old Testament Preachers

And thou hast also appointed prophets to preach of thee at Jerusalem, saying, There is a king in Judah: and now shall it be reported to the king according to these words. Come now therefore, and let us take counsel together. (Nehemiah 6:7) I David have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest. (Psalm 40:9) The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. (Luke 16:16) And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; (2 Peter 2:5)

John The Baptist

In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. (Matthew 3:1-2) John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. (Mark 1:4) And many other things in his exhortation preached he unto the people. (Luke 3:18)

Jesus The Preacher

From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. (Matthew 4:17) And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities. (Matthew 11:1) Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. (Mark 1:14-15) And he said unto them, Let us go into the next towns, that I may preach there also: for therefore came I forth. (Mark 1:38)

New Testament Preachers

And they went out, and preached that men should repent. (Mark 6:12) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14) And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen. (Mark 16:20) Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word. (Acts 8:4) And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. (Revelation 14:6-7)

The Command To Preach

And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. (Matthew 10:7) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20) And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach, (Mark 3:14) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (Mark 16:15) And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. (Luke 9:2) And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where. (Luke 9:6) Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God. (Luke 9:60) And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things. (Luke 24:46-48) I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. (2 Timothy 4:1-5)

The Command To Preach Loudly

What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. (Matthew 10:27)Isa 58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins. (Isaiah 58:1) Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; (Joel 2:1)

Preaching Different From Teaching

Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead. (Acts 4:2) And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ. (Acts 5:42)

The Purpose Of Preaching

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! (Romans 10:14-15) To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: (Colossians 1:27-28) But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour; (Titus 1:3) So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. (Isaiah 55:11) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Romans 10:17)

The Reaction To Preaching

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18) And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate, And the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land. But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof. (Isaiah 6:9-13) And he said unto me, Son of man, go, get thee unto the house of Israel, and speak with my words unto them. For thou art not sent to a people of a strange speech and of an hard language, but to the house of Israel; Not to many people of a strange speech and of an hard language, whose words thou canst not understand. Surely, had I sent thee to them, they would have hearkened unto thee. But the house of Israel will not hearken unto thee; for they will not hearken unto me: for all the house of Israel are impudent and hardhearted. Behold, I have made thy face strong against their faces, and thy forehead strong against their foreheads. As an adamant harder than flint have I made thy forehead: fear them not, neither be dismayed at their looks, though they be a rebellious house. (Ezekiel 3:4-9) Therefore thou shalt speak all these words unto them; but they will not hearken to thee: thou shalt also call unto them; but they will not answer thee. (Jeremiah 7:27)

God Likes Open-Air Preaching

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. (1 Corinthians 1:21) Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. (1 Corinthians 1:25) But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; (1 Corinthians 1:27)

I Must Preach The Gospel!

For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel! (1 Corinthians 9:16) For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. (2 Corinthians 4:5) Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely? (2 Corinthians 11:7)

You Should Delight In The Preaching The Gospel

Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. (Philippians 1:15-18)

"But The Bible Says 'Do Not Preach While Standing On The Street Corners'"

Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly. And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. (Matthew 6:1-8)

"But The Bible Says 'Thou Shalt Not Judge'

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. (Matthew 7:1-5) Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. (John 7:24) Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. (Matthew 7:16-20) Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4) But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. (1 Corinthains 2:15) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God. (1 Corinthians 4:3-5) Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? (1 Corinthians 6:2-5) I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say. (1 Corinthians 10:15) For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. (1 Corinthians 11:31-32)

You Are The Watchman Now

Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman: If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people; Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head. He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul. But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand. So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me. When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. Therefore, O thou son of man, speak unto the house of Israel; Thus ye speak, saying, If our transgressions and our sins be upon us, and we pine away in them, how should we then live? Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth. When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it. Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right; If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die. None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live. Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal. When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby. But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby. Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways. (Ezekiel 33:2-20)


I believe the Scriptures outline a very solid case against the form of evangelism we see today in the American culture, and we need to return to the Biblical approach to evangelism, which is the public proclamation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, regardless of creed or religion of the surrounding culture.

Attempting to make every man perfect in Christ,
Danny


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Danny Howe

 2004/6/4 1:51Profile
imjnp
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Joined: 2004/5/5
Posts: 3


 Re:

Re to Matthew:
"But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give and answer to everyone who ask you to give the reason for your hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect. I Peter 3:15. NIV

I would not use this verse as an end to all to my responsibility of sahring with those who do not know Christ personally.
But it is a good verse for us to be encouraged with on some of the important elements of sharing with others that do apply in all situations.
First, Christ should be the Lord of you life. Second, no matter how knowledgedable you might be with scripture as a whole,we all have been given a "living hope" when we are saved. All believers should be able to share that hope to some degree or another. third, we need to be gentle and respectful of others. So often we try to cram the Bible down unbelievers. The result can often be a "throwing-up" of the words we tried to impose on them.
How quickly we forget how gentle God has been and is with us.

One last thought. We need to remember that evangelism is a gift. In Ephesians 4:11 we are told that "He gave some to be prophets, some to be evangelist, and some to be pastors and teachers. Not only is an envagelist to proclaim the gospel clearly to each people group or culture that he might be in. But also teach others how to share the gospel.
We are not all called to be evangelist. But God is encouraging all believers to share with others our hope, and what He has done for us. In other words "proclaim" God's greatness to a dying world.
Have a great day serving the king of Kings
JNP

 2004/6/4 7:35Profile
matthew
Member



Joined: 2004/4/22
Posts: 57


 Re:

JNP (and all SI members and guests),

if I have been offensive in my previous posts, Please forgive me. none was intended...

Quote:
we need to be gentle and respectful of others. So often we try to cram the Bible down unbelievers. The result can often be a "throwing-up" of the words we tried to impose on them.



I agree totally. Method for evangelism is very important...

Quote:
One last thought. We need to remember that evangelism is a gift. In Ephesians 4:11 we are told that "He gave some to be prophets, some to be evangelist, and some to be pastors and teachers. Not only is an envagelist to proclaim the gospel clearly to each people group or culture that he might be in. But also teach others how to share the gospel.


Quote:
We are not all called to be evangelist. But God is encouraging all believers to share with others our hope, and what He has done for us. In other words "proclaim" God's greatness to a dying world.



again we are in agreement, I would though say that, like those not called to be a "teacher" can teach, those not called to be an "evangelist" DO evangelize when they (as you said)'"proclaim" God's greatness to a dying world.'

matthew


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matthew bauer

 2004/6/7 14:03Profile
todd
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Joined: 2003/5/12
Posts: 573
California

 Re:

Although it's been awhile since my last post on this topic, I'd like to continue discussing it with anyone who is still interested. I'm not going to attempt to respond to everything in one post but I'm going to start with this key issue... to whom does the Great Commission apply and, specifically, how?

What makes me think it applies to the "Church Universal" (or maybe "corporate Body")? I think the best argument for why we can even apply Matthew 28:18-20 beyond the persons it was immediately spoken to, comes from the last verse in the book. Speaking to this group comprised of 11 individuals, Jesus says, "I am with [b]you[/b] always, even to the end of the age."

Who is "you"? Peter? James? Or the group as a unit (or maybe "team")? Perhaps someone who has a better understanding of Greek grammer can help here.

Imagine for a moment that you are the captain of a "Rescue Squad" giving a commencement speech to the group of people about to graduate after years of equipping and preparation. At the end of your speech you passionately exclaim "Go, then, and rescue those who need your help! This is what you've been trained for! GO!!!."

A little later in the bathroom you overhear the conversation of a couple of the new graduates. "Now I'm just not sure Jim. Was the captain talking to [i]me[/i]? Doesn't he know that my job is only to fly the helicopter? I don't actually rescue people. I don't actually grab the person and rescue them. Maybe I'm just not as important."
"I know what you mean Matt, I only coordinate the rescues back at the base using the computers and stuff. Maybe he was only talking to those other guys like Pete and Phil who physcially get to grab the people and rescue them. Maybe we should quit."

What would you do? I'm pretty sure I know what I'd do. I'd go find those 2 guys as quick as possible and explain, "No, no, no. You guys misunderstood me. You're just as important as the guys who get all the glory, sometimes even more important. When I said "you" I was speaking to the graduating class as a whole. YOU, as a group, as a whole, as the Rescue Squad, are to go and do this. It's a team effort, and each of you need to do your part. You DO rescue people! Though not in as direct a way as others. Without you it wouldn't happen!"

In case you haven't already caught on to my little comparison, the captain in this story represents Jesus, the "Rescue Squad" is the Church, and the commencement speech is "The Great Commission." You can't go too far with the comparison but you probably get the idea I am trying to convey.

Jesus commissioned this specific group of people as one whole, as one unit, one team... and He commissioned the Church (historical and universal and consequently "us") with the final line "even unto the end of the age."

Since "the end of the age" is not yet come, and the 11 disciples Jesus was speaking to have long since passed on, it seems clear that the "you" in this statement was not meant strictly for them. So who was He speaking to? The Church. That is, the mystical Church (historical and universal).

I like using the word "corporate" now because I am leaning towards the idea that each city has one "church". And the corporate "church" in that city is to carry out their role in "The Great Commission" (thought clearly this is also done in an organic way throughout the world).

But even if you don't agree with the "local church" idea, I still think this interpretation makes the most sense.



 2004/6/18 21:56Profile





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