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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Provoking Israel to jealousy

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Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Provoking Israel to jealousy

As Gentiles, how do we provoke Israel to jealousy? I have had many converstations about this, with many different outcomes. What are thoughts of what we must do?

One idea that has always stuck with me is that we, as gentiles, will be having to harbor those who would have us dead. Namely the Jews in the last days. When the Tribulation occurs, Jews may be in hiding as well as Chrstians. Where will our allegance be when it comes to harboring those same Jews that would just as soon turn us in for our "unbelief"?

Will we as gentiles give our lives to provoke Israel?



Is there any teachings on provoking Israel to Jealousy that are recommended?


In Christ,

Christiaan


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Christiaan

 2007/11/16 11:44Profile
BenWilliams
Member



Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas

 Re: Provoking Israel to jealousy

I can't recall a specific teaching right now, but I do know a number of people who have built special hidden basements exactly for the purpose that when the time comes they can hide Jews, or Christians.


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Benjamin Williams

 2007/11/16 12:18Profile









 Re: Provoking Israel to jealousy


Miccah asked

Quote:
As Gentiles, how do we provoke Israel to jealousy?

If I may ramble briefly.

I don't hear Paul's words in Romans 11 as being about 'gentiles' [i]doing[/i] anything, except abiding in the Vine, bearing fruit of the Spirit and loving as Christ commanded.

The way I 'hear' Paul's words, he is saying that God knows how the Jewish mind works... how that traditionally a Jew thinks of himself above the rest of the world, and that in every generation, there will be Jews who are deeply pained in their hearts at the thought of gentiles being in a closer, more blessed relationship with God, than they. This itself will draw a controversy from them, such that they examine the claims of Christians, scripture and history, until they [i]see[/i] what is the hope of their own salvation - Christ in us - and lay hold on Him for themselves.

For any Jew who has been misled by their own false teachings and frank denial of scripture, this may be a humbling process, and certainly one of spiritual awakening. Chrsitians do not need to set themselves up in any way to be accused of smugness or priority through gentile descent, as this is as (ob)noxious to relationships as some of the current disputes, and contrary to scripture.

Rather, I believe we should concentrate on being like Jesus. People, whether Jews or not, will be judged on their response to Him, and we will be judged on our misrepresentations of Him.


To be honest, things like building secret rooms, unless God has commanded it, seem to me to be the stuff of Christian cultural myth, unsupported by scripture, and possibly a waste of thinking time, serving time, and God's money.


Perhaps a lot more looking upwards as the day of redemption draws nigh, and fearing [i]not[/i], is in order?

 2007/11/16 12:47
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: Provoking Israel to jealousy

Miccah,

Try sermons by Art Katz. He has teachings on the subject... rather extensive at that... unlike any I have ever heard. Sermons he's done such as on Ezekiel's vision of dry bones, Romans 11, etc., are all worth noting.


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Jimmy H

 2007/11/16 12:51Profile









 Re: Provoking Israel to jealousy


Ezekiel 8:3
He stretched out the form of a hand, and took me by a lock of my hair; and the Spirit lifted me up between earth and heaven, and brought me in visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the north gate of the inner [i]court,[/i] where the seat of the image of jealousy [i]was,[/i] which provokes to jealousy.


I just noticed this verse, and think it likely Paul has this in mind, when he picks his words...

But... how to relate this to the idea of the gentiles provoking Israel to jealousy, I can understand only in the terms I already posted - that we - of whatever ethnic origin - must be like Jesus. EDIT: This is the image by which they will be able to discern their idolatry. This is the treasure in earthen vessels which they should desire, and can easily obtain by the circumcision of their hearts.

 2007/11/16 14:02
BenWilliams
Member



Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas

 Re:

I must agree with Kingjimmy on this, I have listened to many of Art Katz messages, and he being jewish, knows quite a bit about this. He is probably the best I have heard on the subject.

I can't tell you names of messages, because it has been too long for me to remember which name goes with which message.


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Benjamin Williams

 2007/11/16 17:43Profile





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