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 Judgementalism will eventually KILL this forum

[b]THIS IS LENGTHY, BUT IT'S FROM MY HEART... SO I HOPE Y'ALL READ IT AND UNDERSTAND WHERE I AM COMING FROM[/b]

There is a serious problem that is happening on this forum, and I'm going to deal with it very frankly.

Over the past few months I have noticed a disturbing trend on this forum. I have been informed numerous times that I am not a Christian because I do not believe a certain way about a certain doctrine. The following is a list of topics over which I have been told I am not saved...

1) I dont believe 100% in Calvinism... therefore I am not saved.

2) I do not agree that tithing is a New Testament teaching... therefore I am not saved.

3) I do not agree that Christian rock music is of the devil (tho everyone here should know by now that I do not in any way promote the Christian music industry!)... therefore I am not saved.

4) I have found myself in need of forgiveness for sins committed since being saved (i.e. I'm not perfectly sinless)... therefore I am not saved.

5) I do not agree that drinking a glass of wine is a sin worthy of hellfire... therefore I am not saved.

6) I do not believe that tongues are the initial evidence of being filled with the Spirit... therefore I am not saved.

....etc etc etc. This is not an exhaustive list, but you get my point.

On each of these topics I have been told either publicly on the forum, or in a PM that I must not be a Christian.

While I have talked about at length on this forum that certain forms of judgement are commanded of the believer, we are not in the position to judge the heart of anyone. But I see that happening on this forum at an alarming rate lately.

Some have PM'd me and asked why I havent been as active on here. This is why. I find it frustrating, I find it isolating, and at times I've even been hurt by it... and it takes a lot for me to admit that someone has hurt me.

A long time ago, when my wife and I came out of the deception that is called Word of Faith, we both prayed together one night that God would lead us thru the Holy Spirit into all truth, just as He promised He would do.

I told God I didnt want any fluff... I didnt want what Christian pop culture has to offer... I didnt want to live up to what other peoples ideas of what a Christian is... I only want the truth. Nothing but the truth.

What this usually means for me is that I find myself going against the grain... especially among Christians. The Church has done a really good job of adopting a lot of traditions and rules that have no foundation in the Word of God. Several times on here I've promoted a book called "Pagan Christianity", and I still recommend everyone get their hands on it.

Over the past week or so I've been involved in a thread about drinking wine. JulianSims called me out yesterday and claims to have left this forum because I did not tow the party line about wine. Instead of going along with the tradition view that drinking a glass of wine is a gross sin... I've been pointing out that the Bible NEVER says that.

So my brother's response was:

Quote:
Yet over hundreds of posts i've read from you, Julian wants to convey that smoking and saying it's ok is not ok. Julian wants to also convey that drinking is not ok. Julian again wants to convey that so call christian rock music is not ok. Julian once again wants to convey that to much sports is not ok either. All these things i've mentioned are of the world and not of God. And i've read many of your post's. Hard to tell the difference if your in the world or in God or have one foot in the world and one foot in God, then using scripture to argue ( i mean debate ) one's point or to say there's nothing in scripture to back such and such. There are different levels of spiritual maturity but when one adheres to the things of the world and the things of God both, then we are no better than the world itself. We are to come out and be seperate from the world.



This was uncalled for.

Now, I dont want to turn this into a "bash Julian" thread... he's my brother, and I love him. But this is a perfect example of what happens when someone speaks the truth even when it goes against what most Christians have been taught to believe.

First off... I am very open about the fact that I am not perfect. I do sin. I do need to go to God on a regular basis and repent and be made clean again. Anyone who says they arent in the same boat is a liar, according to 1 John.

I dont hide the fact that I am not against the moderate consumption of alcohol. Why am I not against it? Because scripture is not against it. I am against "strong drink" and drunkness. Why? Because scripture is against it.

I will align myself with scripture, not a pastor (if that pastor doesnt agree with scripture).

Now, on this topic, some have come against me claiming that by my not condemning a glass of wine then I am promoting drinking to those who may stumble spiritually. Not at all. Paul defended the eating of meat that had been sacrificed to alters... but you wouldnt say that he was doing so at the expense of spiritual stumblers. You would say he was teaching truth.

Julian took me to task because I have been open about the fact that in the course of a 12 month period I may smoke 2 or 3 cigars... usually when camping or deer hunting. While I believe strongly that a smoking "habit" is a sin because the smoker is allowing the cigarette to rule and reign (a god), I do not believe that smoking 2 or 3 cigars in the course of a year is a sin. I'm not promoting smoking, I'm just being open and honest about what I believe.

Julian took me to task because I refuse to come out and say that rock music simply as a style of music is of the devil. Therefore, I'm of the world (which I believe is code for: not saved). Nevermind that I have had much to say about the pathetic shape that Christian music as a whole is in...

Let me switch gears... I say all that to say this... I am very open about myself here for several reasons.

I am who God made me to be. I will not put on a false pretense for everyone. I will not put on a Sunday morning smile and tell everyone how wonderful my life is. While God has blessed me with a pretty good life, the fact is... I'm Krispy, y'all. What you see is what you get, and I aint pretending for anyone.

You know what I find? I find that unbelievers, and people that I minister to in real life away from this forum appreciate that about me. I dont come off as some "head in the clouds" dream weaver of a believer.

I've know many Christians who put on a facade of having it all together and being this spiritual giant... only to see them fall. A friend of mine is a Baptist preacher at a small church out in the country. He's lost his entire congregation because while he was coming off as some super Christian... he was stealing from the building fund.

A guy I knew growing up was always coming around and preaching to my dad... he was Super Christian... but now he's in jail because the whole time he was putting on this act for everyone... he was raping his two daughters.

Last year I stopped by a local tent meeting after football practice... had on kaki shorts, sweaty t-shirt and a ball cap... and a preacher there mentioned to me after to the service that he would love to lead me to the Lord. I gladly told him I was already saved, and he responded that if that was the case then he expected me to be in a shirt and tie for the meeting the next night. I didnt. But guess where this man, who judged me by how I was dressed, is today... jail. Seems he was molesting a couple of 13 yr old girls in an orphanage he helped run.

Soooo... I may be a little too open and honest for some of you folks on this forum... but one thing I am not... and thats a fake.

I'm not comparing myself to those men, I am merely pointing out that what you get from me is honesty. If I dont agree with something, I'm going to say so even if it goes against popular belief. Truth is truth, period.

One thing I have never done on here is talk about the ministries that the Lord has allowed me to be a part of. Main reason for this is because I dont want to come off as boasting. But I think that I need to discuss this a little because I believe it is utter foolishness to judge me or anyone based on my beliefs concerning a couple of minor subjects. Especially on a forum like this where no one really knows anyone beyond what they write here.

Julian has come against my involvement in sports. What my brother does not realize is that this is a ministry God has called me to. I've lost count of how many young men God has allowed me to lead to Him. Some may have found the Lord after they aged out at my level of football, but my influence on them pointed them in the right direction.

Usually about 30% of my players come from stable, two parent homes. Thats it. The other 70% come from broken homes, "blended" families", etc. They either dont know their dad, or dad is living in another state, or dad is in jail. There is no good male role model in the home. This is my mission field, and football is the tool that God has given me to reach these kids.

So before I get blasted for being involved in sports... why not find out why I do what I do? You might find yourself railing against God.

On Saturday mornings I have a Bible study with inmates at a local prison. These guys have had several ministers do this with them in the past, but they seem to connect with me really well... an guess why... because I am open and honest with them. I'm not putting on any pretenses with them, I'm not a fake. And God has given me such a love for these guys, and it comes thru loud and clear. And one of the guys in the Bible study is in prison because he broke into [b]MY HOUSE[/b]. (He also had other warrents for which he was convicted as well). I led him to the Lord last year.

Twice a month I haul free baby food to a crisis pregnancy center. There is a local church that has a warehouse where they ship in baby food from Gerber, and then distribute it out. My wife will locate different crisis pregnancy centers, set up a time, then I'll hook up my trailer to my pickup and I haul some food to them. This is another ministry God has given us.

By the way... God allows me to be involved in all these things because he has blessed my business, and has allowed me to be self employed.

Once a month, sometimes more, my two older boys and I volunteer at the rescue mission feeding the homeless. We try to make a point of doing on Christmas day too.

And on top of all that, I am an elder in a group of elders overseeing a small network of house churches... and all the ministry that goes along with that.

Again, I hate talking about these things because I know that someone will see this as boasting. I'm not boasting, I'm merely trying to point out that you can not come onto this forum and judge the heart of another believer based on what you know of them on here.

Over the past few months I've been painted as a worldy, fleshly believe who is a drunkard and glutton because I refuse to go along with rules and traditions that are not scriptural. Funny thing tho... it's exactly what the religious crowd did to Jesus because He didnt do what they thought He should.

So how about we quit acting like fools, and stop sitting in judgement over our brothers and sisters?

Should we judge doctrine? Absolutely!

Should we judge actions? Absolutely!

Should we judge anothers heart? No!

We should all look inside and judge our own hearts.

I'll end this by saying that even tho I've been hurt, kicked, and beaten at times on this forum for standing up for what believe God has revealed to me as the truth... I still love you all.

And I know that I know that God saved this imperfect man. I have no idea why. But He did. And His Spirit lives inside of me, and He is guiding and directing my life. And He is leading me into all truth. I'm not there yet, but I know I'm on the right road... and boy, it's a narrow one.

Krispy

 2007/11/15 8:11









 Re: Judgementalism will eventually KILL this forum

[b]BUMP[/b] (sorry!, but the forum is moving fast this morning, and I wanted to be sure everyone reads this. I think this is important)

Krispy

 2007/11/15 8:34
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 611
Texas

 Re:

Thanks Krispy,

I'm not ashamed to call you brother. May His grace be richly supplied to you, and may the pain from these interactions provide that perfect work that wisdom is after. Here is a quote from a poem in the front of my bible.

I walked a mile with pleasure
She chatted all the way
but left me none the wiser
for all she had to say

I walked a mile with sorrow
and ne're a word said she
but O the things I learned from her
when sorrow walked with me

makrothumia


_________________
Alan and Dina Martin

 2007/11/15 8:43Profile









 Re:

Thanx, bro. I dont want whatever hurt I have experienced to be the focus here. I want all of us to understand that we hold to many many beliefs that just arent found in scripture... and we need to seek what God says, and not what man says God says.

I guess truth is my only point. And love for the brethren, not judgementalism.

A good example of this is there is a member of this forum who attends Joel Osteen's church. I rail against Osteen pretty hard, yet this brother on this forum is truly one of my favorites to converse with here. I love him, and he loves me, even tho at times we definately dont see eye to eye, especially concerning his pastor.

I love this brother! I dont agree with him on some things, but that doesnt prevent us from fellowshipping one with another.

That poem is great, I think I will jot that down in my Bible as well. Thanx for sharing that.

Krispy

 2007/11/15 8:49









 Re: Judgementalism will eventually KILL this forum

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:

Should we judge doctrine? Absolutely!

Should we judge actions? Absolutely!

Should we judge anothers heart? No!

We should all look inside and judge our own hearts.




Hi Krispy, I don't know you too well because I'm new to this forum. Your right we cannot judge others only their actions.You said we should judge our own hearts but the apostle Paul said:

1 Corinthians 4:3
3But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.


I just want to leave you with this one verse:

[color=0000FF]Psalm 119:165Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.[/color]

We need to be open to what the word says and if that person is wrong be willing to be open to discussion as the Lord leads you. If anyone is not open to what the word says the word says they do not love the law. People cannot judge you or you them but we must be open to the word of God. Praying for us all that we have love for one another.

 2007/11/15 8:51









 Re:




Bless you bro. I'm sorry you've been having a hard time. It's character-forming though, and that shines through.


Also, if I may observe, your leading post is part of your spiritual ministry here, as part of the body on SI (in case you don't realise that).

Thank you for caring about us. :-D


I hope maybe I'll get to meet you next year, if you're willing.


 2007/11/15 8:51









 Re:

Quote:
I hope maybe I'll get to meet you next year, if you're willing.



If we have another revival meeting like last month's, I am hoping to be there. :-)

Krispy

 2007/11/15 8:55









 Re:

Quote:
Hi Krispy, I don't know you too well because I'm new to this forum. Your right we cannot judge others only their actions.You said we should judge our own hearts but the apostle Paul said:

1 Corinthians 4:3
3But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.



While of course I agree w/ Paul, I think my point was more along the lines of what Christ said about motes in the eye. We need to remove the logs in our eye before we can remove the sliver from our brothers.

And I have a lot of logs! lol...

Welcome to SI, by the way.

Krispy

 2007/11/15 8:57
consecrateme
Member



Joined: 2007/4/30
Posts: 33
Texas

 Re:

Brother Krispy,
Thank you for your honesty. It is such a blessing to have brothers like you in this forum. I felt every word i read on this forum as coming from a transparent heart. May God continue to bless you and use you and your family for his glory!!

Bless you,
c

 2007/11/15 8:57Profile









 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Quote:

While of course I agree w/ Paul, I think my point was more along the lines of what Christ said about motes in the eye. We need to remove the logs in our eye before we can remove the sliver from our brothers.

And I have a lot of logs! lol...

Welcome to SI, by the way.

Krispy



AMEN! I get misunderstood alot, Im a very open person.

Thanks for the welcome! :-)

 2007/11/15 9:03





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