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roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Your counsel would be wonderful

Dear friends,
I have been a youth pastor for about a year now. Lately though I have been grieved over the coldness of the youth, and so I have been pouring my heart out to GOD for them, and have taken to preaching rather than so much teaching. Exhorting them to shut off the tv and the computers etc. I also do worship for a couple ministries at my church. So what's the problem you ask?
I do not really llike to use overhead lyrics, I try to give the lyrics as we sing. I feel that this lends to a better worship environment as there are less distractions. But my pastors have said that I am not submitting to them. I have never meant for this to be about me, and I do not feel rebellious. So I'd like to get some feedback.
Now there is also the problem with the youth, and others. Some do not come to youth group anymore saying that I am too harsh, others say that I am judgemental. Yet all I have done is preach GOD's WORD. I know none of you know me, but please take my word, that I greatly fear the LORD, and would never teach something not in HIS word. Please do not hesitate to respond with advise, and prayer because today I was told I might have to find another church.
Thank You and may the LORD bless you,
patrick


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patrick heaviside

 2004/5/25 18:22Profile
DelightedInU
Member



Joined: 2004/5/17
Posts: 102
Escondido, CA

 Re: Your counsel would be wonderful

I wouldn't doubt that you are following the Lord. I have an uncle who is a Youth Pastor. At first, for a few years, many people thought he was harsh and didn't like his views. Most of the pastors were all about "love the kids and they'll come to the Lord". That is true. Show them God's love for them through the way you live and how you love them. But my uncle was tired of watching everybody love on these kids but the kids were still living in sin. They need to be rebuked and told that what they are doing is wrong. My uncle has more of the mentality that "BECAUSE I love you, I'm not going to sit back and watch you continue in sin". A lot of people didn't like that cause it wasn't all "fuzzy" love. It was hard core, "I don't want you to go to hell" love. Anyways, I think a lot of people started to understand what he was talking about. Both people were following the Lord, but both people had slightly different ways of doing things. But it's just like God's personality. One side of Him loves us and the other side of Him disciplines us. What use would we as Christians be if we all did everything the same. God didn't make all of us a hand. He made feet and legs and arms within the body. So just pray. You're following God just as much as them. Pray for the other pastors too. Maybe not to change but to understand how you do things. Talk to them. You guys as pastors should all be communication about how you are going to lead the flock. Also, pray for God's direction and will. Cause it might just be that he wants you to move to another church. God works in weird ways. What doesn't make sense to you, makes sense to God.


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Jennifer

 2004/5/25 19:09Profile
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 Re: Your counsel would be wonderful

Quote:
I have been a youth pastor for about a year now. Lately though I have been grieved over the coldness of the youth, and so I have been pouring my heart out to GOD for them, and have taken to preaching rather than so much teaching.


Brother Patrick, praise God for your willingness and desire to share His heart with these young ones. A seriousness amongst the youth in spiritual matters has been a precouser to many large revivals in history and its a vital aspect that needs to happen. Yes I wish youth would turn off there tv's and music for just long enough to hear the echo from the God and His cry to this generation of lost men. I am not a pastor but I have worked with youth alot and one thing I have realized is that your life, not necessary how much of the bible you know or if you are a good teacher but the life of Christ in you will attract them to deeper things in the Lord. It can be fustrating I agree in seeing the youth go off and astray or being lukewarm in their faith but if we just spur them on with tough words and try to build them up to fast it might prove worse. Having the burden of prayer and praying through can avail much more than trying to really be tough and straight with them using the scriptures. But on the otherhand showing divine truth and not holding back was one of Jesus's earmarks in his preaching and teaching. The complaint was always "that's a hard saying" or even "who can obtain eternal life then?". I would encourage you to listen to this message by Keith Daniel where he actualled preached it at a youth camp in the USA I believe. [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=1864]Be Ye Holy For I am Holy by Keith Daniel[/url]

Also to maybe play the Revival Hymn recording for the youth and other stirring compilations might spark some enthuasim for divine things. But again I really feel that all of this needs to be [b]prayed into[/b] them. These are just some of the thoughts that have come to my mind brother, I hope they prove helpful. Please share more of how God is taking your youth group I expect to hear wonderful testimonies of praise quite soon! ;-)


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/5/25 19:20Profile
Gideons
Member



Joined: 2003/9/16
Posts: 474
Virginia

 Re: God bless you Brother Patrick

I too work with youth and have for a couple of years. I would just advise you to stay steadfast in the Lord and seek His heart earnestly in prayer as you are doing.

Solomon's words also bear repeating "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." (Proverbs 22:6). Many of the scriptures I know were taught by Godly men and women and they never saw the fruits of their labors. Another verse came to mind (I Corinthians 3:6) "I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase."

Patrick perhaps God is using you to plant His word into their heart. Just remember that you may never see the impact of your words but as you seek Christ, he will not let one word fall to the ground.

Thank you for your willingness to pour yourself out to the youth. Surely many of them are hungry for the word of the Lord. I see it in some very young believers, as young as 8 and 9 years of age. Whether you see an immediate impact or not, don't be discouraged brother.

When you've spent alone with Jesus travailing in prayer, they will know because the words will come from above. Surely we need Godly men and women who are willing to share God's word and His heart to them. Don't be discouraged by what your natural eyes may see because He will give the increase. If God gives you a heavy message which oftentimes happens to me, do it in love without fear or reservation.


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Ed Pugh

 2004/5/25 20:12Profile
KeithLaMothe
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Joined: 2004/3/28
Posts: 354


 Re: Your counsel would be wonderful

Quote:
Some do not come to youth group anymore saying that I am too harsh, others say that I am judgemental. Yet all I have done is preach GOD's WORD.

"too harsh," "judgemental," and "legalistic" are very common objections to the preaching of the Word of God (don't be surprised if you get that last one). If you encounter such objections, ask for a Biblical definition of the terms and how your preaching fulfills those definitions. If they have a sound Biblical case, take it to heart. In any case, show them the Biblical case for what you're preaching and how.

Some will be objecting for the wrong reasons:

John 3
20 "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

Some simply don't understand how God deals with disobedient children:

Proverbs 13
24 He who withholds his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him diligently.

Hebrews 12
6 FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES."

Revelation 3
19 'Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.

Some don't understand the Christian's duty to judge:

Proverbs 31
9 Open your mouth, judge righteously, And defend the rights of the afflicted and needy.

John 7
24 "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."

Many don't understand the importance of obeying God, not as a means of gaining salvation but as a fruit that comes from all truly following Jesus if given the chance:

Luke 6
46 "Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

1 John 2
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.

1 John 3
6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.
7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

James 2
14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?
17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
18 But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25 In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Just stick to the Word of God, and pray according to the burden God has placed on your heart.

Isaiah 55
11 So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.

God's grace be with you,
-Keith

 2004/5/26 0:12Profile
Yodi
Member



Joined: 2004/4/23
Posts: 663
Escondido, California

 Re: Your counsel would be wonderful

Quote:
I have been a youth pastor for about a year now. Lately though I have been grieved over the coldness of the youth, and so I have been pouring my heart out to GOD for them, and have taken to preaching rather than so much teaching. Exhorting them to shut off the tv and the computers etc.


I have worked with youth as well for several years and still work on staff at my church, so I have kind of seen how these things work. First off, you've only been a youth pastor for about a year. [laughs] I've seen 2 new youth pastors lead this ministry and you know, the first year is going to be tough. I think you mostly get your complaints from the parents. You know, they want you to be like the youth pastor before. I'ts, "How come you're not doing this and that like so and so?" Are you experiencing some of that? You'll get that from the kids too. Sooner or later, they'll respect you for who you are, like what "DelightedInU" posted about us being different parts of the body. I don't know where the exact verse is, but remember to be a God pleaser, not a man pleaser.

Quote:
I also do worship for a couple ministries at my church. So what's the problem you ask?
I do not really llike to use overhead lyrics, I try to give the lyrics as we sing. I feel that this lends to a better worship environment as there are less distractions. But my pastors have said that I am not submitting to them. I have never meant for this to be about me, and I do not feel rebellious. So I'd like to get some feedback.


Okay, I don't think anyone's commented on this yet. In this area, I would have to say you're in the wrong. I know sometimes how hard it can be to submit to your pastors and do things the way they want things done. [laughs] I know, I've worked under my pastors for almost 4 years now. But they are your authority and you have to submit. It's not like they're asking you to do something unbiblical. You know, submit, pray and God will either change your heart about the matter or theirs. It's a win win situation.

Quote:
Now there is also the problem with the youth, and others. Some do not come to youth group anymore saying that I am too harsh, others say that I am judgemental. Yet all I have done is preach GOD's WORD. I know none of you know me, but please take my word, that I greatly fear the LORD, and would never teach something not in HIS word. Please do not hesitate to respond with advise, and prayer because today I was told I might have to find another church.


"DelightedInU" gave some good encourgement under her post. I go to the same church she does. [laughs] And I agree that our pastors thought that "Bulldog", Eric was too harsh. But you know, the pastors' hearts changed, and Eric's did a little too. He hasn't watered down his messages, but relationship wise he has gotten a little bit more compassionate and he's learned to be a little more submissive to the pastors. So this may be a great opportunity for God to do a little work in your heart and the pastors of your church, or, like it was mentioned, maybe God has another church for you.

Keep praying and try your best to trust God's plans for your life. If they end up telling you to leave, please, please don't get so discouraged that you end up leaving the fellowship altogether. That happened to my old jr. high youth pastor. Praise God that he's back on the right path with God, but I wouldn't want you to have to learn the hard way. What his church did to him wasn't fair, and this may be your case, but don't let the enemy use this to make you [b]bitter[/b]. Let God use this situation to make you [b]better[/b].


_________________
Yolanda Fields

 2004/5/26 14:48Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re: Yodi's response

It is wonderful because last night as I prayed and thought through these things(with help from my wife), I realized that I was wrong about the overheads. I met with my pastor last night and we had coffee, and I told him my thoughts, and he told me his. Afterwards I saw even better how wrong I had been!
Thank You for your counsel.
I thank all of you for your counsel, it was just simply confirmation as to what the LORD had shown me. By the way I did get called "legalistic" already.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2004/5/26 18:00Profile
Yodi
Member



Joined: 2004/4/23
Posts: 663
Escondido, California

 Re: After prayer...

Well praise the Lord! Glad to hear that you got some things resolved. And thank God that you have a wonderful wife!


_________________
Yolanda Fields

 2004/5/26 18:05Profile
KeithLaMothe
Member



Joined: 2004/3/28
Posts: 354


 Re:

Quote:
By the way I did get called "legalistic" already.

Never fails :)

 2004/5/26 22:43Profile
matthew
Member



Joined: 2004/4/22
Posts: 57


 Re: Your counsel would be wonderful

I too was a youth pastor for a season, That part of your post seemed much like my testimony. I WAS asked to stop my involvment with the youth. That was really dificult for me. I went through a time of questioning my motives and message and even salvation after that. I thought "if the message I'm giving are apart from the Spirit when I thought they were FROM the Spirit, who am I hearing from?"

I can encourage you though. God WAS testing me. Not to change what I was teaching, but to see if I would stand by HIS WORD.

So stand. Compromise is never honored by God, but praise God that He would find you worthy of this trial. Trust Him.

John 3:8
The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." Who knows if God has something greater for you (by greater I don't necessarily mean bigger in ministry terms)

For me, He wanted me to stop seeking minnistry and start seeking HIM.

For what it's worth

matthew


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matthew bauer

 2004/5/27 12:31Profile





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