SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : General Topics : Who are the real preachers?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 Next Page )
PosterThread
jiyouk
Member



Joined: 2007/10/25
Posts: 53


 Who are the real preachers?

I live here in Korea, where most churches are dying from traditions and religous practices instead of a true meeting with our Jesus. I'd say about 50% of believers are just sunday goes who go to church on sundays and do whatever they want on the weekdays. The rest 20 or 30% are serious christians who believe in the "do you best for God" theology, where they work their lives out for the best thinking that they are working for God. The rest 10% are zeaouls for the Lord and long for intimacy with Jesus and are really thirsty and wanting a revival and a change in everything.
Our chuch belongs to this 10%. I've looked at many churches but nowhere have I found a place where the "good news" was emphasized so much and where repentance from sin, and brokeness was really in effect. People come to our church and really meet Jesus, or meet Jesus and decide that the cost is too great to follow and leave.

The things is we were very focused on repentance and the good news and being full on for Jesus. Somehow, we began to be influenced by Mike Bickle and his books, and Keneth Haggins books by a member of our congregation.
Now our church is fully on to the say it believe it faith system and is much more on to the love of God with almost no empahsis on repentance and a hate for sin. Mike Bickle once said something like "I'm pretty skeptical about those who believe that the fear of the Lord will drive us away from sin. It is actually when we really see that Jesus has loved us that we say to sin "I'm a man of God and I want nothing to do with sin."

I'm interested what the people here think about Mike Bickle and Keneth Haggin. I was influenced by their books, but I'm starting to be a little more skeptical about them..
What are you thoughts about these guys?

IHOP, Mike Bickle's organization is effecting Korea more and more...I recently went to a IHOP worship leader Derick Lous (or something rather, can't really rember either than derick) worship session, and he didn't have much to say than the traditional message that says something like "God will reward you. Don't worry. He cares about you. We are not perfect right now and will fight with sin until we die and that is okay."
There's nothing wrong with these messages, but they don't really change lives...

And, do you have some books you guys would recommend that really changes lives?
I'm currently working as a social worker instead of the 2 year compulsury army here in Korea so I've got some time to spare. I'm enjoying studying the materials that are on this site.
God bless~

Oh! and what about Bob Johnes, Keith Davis, Shawn Bolz, Rick Joyner? I'm not trying to put on some kind of a critisim or anything. I sincerely just want to know what the people here think..And even if some of them are wrong, it won't hurt to talk about them with a little love right?

 2007/10/29 3:00Profile
intrcssr83
Member



Joined: 2005/10/28
Posts: 246
Logan City, Queensland, Australia

 Re: Who are the real preachers?

Brother, I implore you to listen to this sermon:

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=7278]"Hell's Best Kept Secret" by Ray Comfort (Korean version)[/url]


_________________
Benjamin Valentine

 2007/10/29 5:25Profile
jiyouk
Member



Joined: 2007/10/25
Posts: 53


 Re:

I just finished hearing this sermon.
Just that I don't like the other group on the other side who just go to church so that they can be saved and have no relatioship with Jesus. they think it as a "salvation ticket" and nothing more, living their lives because they've escaped the wrath of God. This is very much the traditional church.

The modern church on the other hand says what Ray was saying, that life will be all good once you believe in Jesus.

They seem to be two extreemes.
I think that Jesus came to have a relationship with us. That's why he made us spiritual beings. That's why he rested on the 7th day: to have communion with us. That's why he sent Jesus to clear our sins away; so that he could have a relationship with us.

And for me, the realization that I was a sinner came through the Holy Spirit and not through law. In fact, what made me break down was not the fact that I sinned all the ten commandments, but it was a deep inner conviction that I was a sinner regardless of the sins I've commited. It was the Holy Spirit convicting me that I was the one that crucified Christ.

So back to the point, are you saying that most of the people I mentioned preach the modern gospel of "everything will be well if you believe in Jesus?"

 2007/10/29 10:22Profile
covenantword
Member



Joined: 2007/10/3
Posts: 7


 Re: Who are the real preachers?

i believe the preachers you mentioned are more of the word of faith movement that swept this nation some years back with much of there quoting i believe to be out of context and when i was a young christian i found myself empty with the name it and clam it going on that lacked any urging on repentance and regeneration and a true walk with Jesus and it seemed that if something went wrong in my life its because i didn't have enough faith and that is all unscriptural. since that time God called me to preach about fourteen years ago and i have had the honor of having men of God like Keith Daniel stay in my home and if you spend time around men of God like that you have no question who real preachers are they are the men who give there lives to the glory of our lord Jesus who live in prayer and fasting and love God with all their being they would give up their lives to please God .Men with no intention of worldly gain or fam, they would rather be crucified than lead sheep astray with a watered down gospel. They live at the throne of God in prayer and come down to preach to the congregation. Preachers are a dime a dozen but men of God who preach are rare. Keith Daniel,ravenhill,Carter Conlon,David Wilkerson give some of those a listen hope this helps.

 2007/10/31 0:09Profile
running2win
Member



Joined: 2007/5/15
Posts: 231
Bowmansville Penssylvania USA

 Re: Who are the real preachers?

Hello jiyouk and welcome to the site!
I think your concerns are all legitimate about these IHOP type preachers. I have allot of the same concerns myself. I've looked into their ministries and there seems to me to be this "man" scent to it all. Kind of man centered thing. Listen to the teachings of Paris Reidhead. His preaching has effected my life probably more than anyone else.
As far as books I would recommend- [i]Absolute Surrender[/i] by Andrew Murray is the first thing that comes to mind. Also read the sermon [i]Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God[/i] by Jonathan Edwards.
Also if you wouldn't mind, PM me. I've always been curious as to the state of the Korean church and would love to hear more about it if wouldn't mind sharing a little more with me.
God bless you as you seek God for the truth on these very critical issues.
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Mollman

 2007/10/31 8:44Profile
Onesimus4God
Member



Joined: 2006/1/16
Posts: 398
Cyber Space

 Re:

Hello Jiyouk,
I too have lived through all that you are sharing with us. I do not know of this Mike Bickle because I don't watch TV preachers. I do know Kenneth Haggin and when I was a young christian, he influenced my life too. But the Holy Spirit helped me divide what was of God and what was not.
I want to share an article with you. Please click the following link:
http://www.openchurch.com/user/The%20Concept.pdf

I'd like to know if this witnesses to your heart. I'd also like to share an article I wrote that I think will bless you as well.

Vital Connectivity

The great A.W. Tozer wrote the following:

{"To be articulate at times, we are compelled to fall back upon 'Oh' or 'O' - a primitive exclamatory sound that is hardly a word at all, and that scarcely admits of a definition....

In theology, there is no "Oh!", and this is a significant, if not omnious thing. Theology seeks to reduce what may be known of God to intellectual terms, and as long as the intellect can comprehend, it can find words to express itself. When God Himself appears before the mind, awesome, vast, and incomprehensible, then the mind sinks into silence and the heart cries out "Oh Lord God". There is the difference between theological knowledge and spiritual experience, the difference between knowing God by hearsay and knowing God by acquaintance. And the difference is not verbal merely; it is real, and serious, and vital.

We Christians should watch lest we lose the "Oh" from our hearts. When we become too glib in prayer, we are most surely talking to ourselves. When the calm listing of requests and the courteous giving of the proper thanks take the place of the burdened prayer that finds utterance difficult, we should beware the next step, for our direction is surely down, whether we know it or not."}

OH God! OH God! That I might know You more, so that I may be at a loss for words that describe my experience.

Last year, I was reading in Matthew. When I got to the 6th chapter and the 33rd verse, I could not proceed any farther.

"Seek ye first, the kingdom of God and His righteousness, then all these things shall be added unto you".

I had spent the vast majority of my life seeking "things" to make me content that I might then find vocabulary to thank God. What a perversion of existence that is.

All that we have in Christianity and all that we do should be an outflow of our acquaintance and experience with our God. Spending time with Him and His Word will produce all we want to know and be in Christ Jesus. If God is our supplier, would it not be a better thing to pursue the supplier rather than the supply?

When we "witness" to someone, how often do we find ourselves at a loss attempting to describe our God Who is of Himself, limitless? Or do we rather, describe the supply, and bits and pieces that we know and can somehow attempt to understand? Worse yet, often our focus is on our achievement rather than His wonder. Is it any wonder that people only see us, rather than His image? I think not.
I remember when I first "encountered" God. It had never entered the sphere of my understanding what happened on that day. Some describe it as His "shekinah glory", and it likely was. But description beyond that leaves me at a loss. I can tell you the effects. But I cannot describe the cause, God Himself.

As our dear departed brother Tozer so wonderfully shared above, as we proceed in our theology and learn of God, we tend to reduce Him to the level of our understanding. Worse yet, we contend with others that "we know", when if fact we are "unknowning" compared to His greatness.
When I encountered God for the first time, His real presence in me, it was incredible. It was very obvious to those who saw me thereafter. They knew something had happened to me without me saying a word, yet neither they nor I could define what it was that brought about this "change" or "look" that had come over me. I was floating as I went my way. My head and my heart was in the clouds. I was in love with God. More, I believed that God was in love with me. But I could not tell you just what happened to bring me into His presence or how it came to be. His sovereign goodness just chose to do it. But I have to believe from the reactions of those who saw me, that somehow they saw more than me...they saw a glimpse of Him upon me. Is that what the unsaved are looking for?

Such an occurrence cannot be described, nor can it be taught or learned. I am quite certain that there are Doctors of Theology that have not experienced God. They have plenty of head knowledge, but lack experience and acquaintance understanding.

Sadly, the image of God that somehow shown on my face faded. I had no idea how to maintain the experience or acquaintance. I was born into religion. What did I know about personal experience with God? Nothing. I knew it was fading, but was at a loss as to what to do about it.
Some 30 years later, I came to the rhema of Matthew 6:33, and I stopped right there. I remembered that before that weekend, I had told God that if He did not reveal Himself to me, I was never going to darken the door of a church again. You see beloved, I put all the religiosity away from me and sought God. Nothing more, nothing less. "I want YOU, God!" It was then that He showed up in all of His magnificent glory. I was forever changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, God flooded my soul. The rhema of Matthew 6:33 revealed to me that the object of all my pursuits have been a perversion of the relationship that God has desired to have me with me.... up close and personal.

I sought things, carnal things, religious things, sinful things, glory, power, prestige, position...you name it, I was looking for it. What actually happened was that it was all vanity, all in vain. The reality of all that I had pursued eluded me because my pursuit was for the supply rather than the supplier. I didn't realize that if I had the supplier, I had the supply as well. But by comparison, the supplier far paled the supply.
I, like you, live in this carnal flesh and yet see through a glass darkly. So I cannot any more comprehend the vastness of God than fly to the moon. We are like the tiny uncapped bottle that was tossed into the middle of the ocean and sank to it's deepest depths. There was from that moment on, nothing but ocean in the bottle. But the bottle did not contain all the ocean, only a minuscule part. We have 100% God in our hearts, but we do not contain the completeness of God, no not by any stretch of imagination.
We are like the town residents who ponder of the refuse left behind by a violent tornado. We see it's effects and wonder about it's power. It overwhelms us when God shows up. But too often our attention is on what was left behind, rather than on God Himself.

We should be like the "storm chasers". They are after the storm that has such power. They somehow sense it's wonder and want to experience it up close and personal. Could it be that God wants us to find Him and experience Him up close and personal? Oh yes, yes, yes. He gave His only Son, that we might do just that! God wants us to be vitally connected to Himself. God wants to be found, not for His supply, but for Who He is. When we begin to pursue Him in such a way as this, our prayer life begins to take on a whole new perspective. Our worship becomes enthralled. Slipping away to be alone with Him becomes a passion rather than chore. We are compelled to drink in His wonder.

Not long ago, I was pondering all of this. It was spring time once again, and all the new life was springing forth. I was outside and just looking at the growth of new life. Fresh green leaves, beautiful flowers, the endless repetitive perfection of the clover leaf. I realized that man in all his knowledge and pride had yet to create one living cell. Yet our God has created all of this life. His creation sustains itself in balance. All is provided for. Only our own dominion over creation given to us by Him disturbs the balance of life and even the continuity of some species of life. But what about our God? Who can fathom the depths of His aura?

Are you connected to God in religious practice? Or are you seeking Him above all things? God desires to be connected to us by acquaintance and experience......do we share His desire and live to bring it to pass? Or are we busy trying to be our own god, or worse yet, make God our servant?

Well, as usual, I've rambled on here, just sharing as it pours forth. But God wants us to want Him more than anything else. What will you do to cooperate with His desire, His provision and experience Him for yourself. He is so much more than a historical figure in the book we call the bible. He is waiting for you to come to Him for Who He is, not for what He has.

In awe of Him,

Lahry


_________________
Lahry Sibley

 2007/10/31 10:09Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re: Who are the real preachers?

Jiyouk, I would like to lay the preacher thing aside for a second.
This walk is not a preacher walk.You touched on some real good things. you are hungry and seeking. Good!
Yes you need repentance preaching.
Ray comfort is one dimensional , like a broken record. I personally have only seen this used in large evangelical revivals. Rays meessage is for the "I'm good therefore God accepts me" people.

You need many imgredients to become like Jesus.

Faith is high on the list. Dont make the same mistake I did and position yoursself against bro. hagin. I used to hate wof. My wife had all their books.

I made a big mistake! I was thrown into the fight of my life and had no faith.[I had reaped a bad harvest in my hate]
Hagin is a true man of God.
Love is a vital ingredient. Walk in love,study love,test love,make love your goal, and say to yourself "I refuse to walk in anything else"

Also seek the annointing of God. Go hard after this one.
Look at the life of elija. elisha and the apostles. look at what they did. Desire to have more than they had.

Most on this forum will counsel you against wof and the prophets.
Hagin is different than wof. followers.
The prophets have problems. you have to spit out the bones.Most cannot do this so the entire segment becomes bad in their eyes.

Consider paul your main teacher. when you read paul pretend he is speaking specifically to you.

Go for it bro!!!!!

...David



 2007/10/31 11:54Profile
jiyouk
Member



Joined: 2007/10/25
Posts: 53


 Re:

Thank you for all your replies and differnet views!
I know what Onesimus4God is talking about and have expereinced similar things and long to go deeper. Just Jesus!

Regarding the Word of Faith that Psalm1 talked about.. I used to believe in the word of faith reading all of Keneth Haggin and preachers from pentecostal backround. Actually, at first I laughed at the faith of word preachers because it was not biblical, and then I accepted them. I agree that faith is very high on the list, yes it's true. But as I started to look at the bible and the meaning of faith (which in hebrew means to trust something or someone) and as I studying Hebrews 11, where it at first says "faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see." Looking only at this verse faith does seem like some kind of power or belieft to grasp the unseen. However when we read on, one can see that for all the cloud of witnesses they had faith on God and his character: that he was good and faithful. They did not have faith on their own words or on the fact of themselves having faith and therefore making something happen. This can be seen so much in the bible!
The cannanite woman who said "even dogs eat the crumbs that fall of the children table," was praised by Jesus that she has great faith! Why did Jesus call this faith if faith is faith is just believing that Jesus can do miracles? But what this woman believed in was that in the character of Jesus, that he was good enough to heal her.
Peter was scoleded for not having faith to walk on water. Jesus was specifically saying "why don't you trust me?" not "why do you not know about the power of faith?"
So when Jesus is talking about faith, he seems to be always talking about trusting Him, that his great love for us makes all things possible.
Thus if we want to increase our faith, the way to do it is to get a deeper revelation of the love of Christ: to know his depth in such real ways that we trust he loves enough to heal or to show us things..
The problem with the word of faith movement seems to be that the focus is put on us or faith rather than Him..

That's how I've changed in my understanding of faith. It's about trusting his charatcer. Now, when I pray for someone to be healed, I trust that Jesus loves someone enough to heal. Although healings don't always happen when I pray..:)

I just personally want everything to be about Jesus.. My every motive in life to be Jesus, the reason why miracles happen to be Jesus, the reason for faith to be Jesus.. He is after all our rock!

 2007/10/31 23:04Profile
c52
Member



Joined: 2006/12/31
Posts: 44
Loveland, Co. USA

 Re: Who are the real preachers?

Read the Bible of course #1, try Finney and Pink both available here in audio books...


_________________
Charles H Holston

 2007/10/31 23:11Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

jiyouk, never mind.....good luck

 2007/11/1 0:10Profile





©2002-2024 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Revival to this Generation.
Privacy Policy