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 The Foundation of Moral Obligation

[b]WHAT IS THE FOUNDATION OF MORAL OBLIGATION?[/b]

The [i]foundation[/i] of moral obligation is the same as the [i]reason[/i] of obligation. The reason God gave us laws (moral obligations) is the same as the foundation or purpose of those laws.

[b]The Two Major Theories:[/b]

[u]- The foundation is the arbitrary will of God. [/u]

God makes law whatever He wants to make law. It is not derived from His divine intelligence, he has no reasons for his laws, they are simply derived from His arbitrary will.

He could have made wrong right and right wrong. He could have made the law of hate or the law of selfishness obligation and it would not have been wrong for him to do so.

This is specifically Allah in the Koran. It is their doctrine of aborgation which is derived from the doctrine of arbitrariness.


[u]- The Foundation (or reason) is the good of the universe, as demanded by the Divine Intelligence:[/u]

This is Moral Government Theology.

This one is very easy to understand:

- Why does our society have laws, officers, courts, judges, prisons? For the good of the community.

- Why does a parent tell a child to eat his vegetables and to not play in the road? For the well-being of the child.

Within [i]human government[/i] and within [i]family government[/i], laws are given to protect and promote the well-being of the subjects.

And I would propose that the same is true within [i]the Moral Government of God[/i].

The Law does come from God's WILL, but His WILL is subjected to His INTELLIGENCE. The Law is the will of God. God's will is the law. But His will is subjected to His intelligence.

[b]This is the God of the bible[/b], He knows (Divine Intelligence) what is good and beneficial for His people and commands it, and He knows (Divine Intelligence) what is harmful and dangerous for his subjects and outlaws it.

He did not give us laws for no good reason. He did not give us laws that we could not keep, so that He could send us to hell. He gave us laws so that we wouldn't sin, because sin is harmful to the creation that He loves.


[u][b]WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS:[/b][/u]


[b][u]Deut 6:3[/u][/b]: "Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; [b] that it may be well with thee [/b], and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey."

[b][u]Deut 6:24:[/u][/b] "And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God,[b] for our good always[/b], that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day."

[b][u]Deut 10:12-13[/u]:[/b] "And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day [b]for thy good[/b]?

[b][u]Jer 7:23:[/u][/b] "But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, [b]that it may be well unto you."[/b]

[b][u]Jer 32:39[/u]:[/b] "And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, [b]for the good of them[/b], and of their children after them:"

[b][u]Luke 6:9[/u]:[/b] "Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?"

The ill-being of God, and of those made in His image, is intrinsicly evil; while the well-being of God, and those made in His image, is intrinsicly good. ([b][u]Luke 16:25[/u][/b])

The law does not [i]originate[/i] right and wrong, but the law [i]declares[/i] right from wrong. ([u][b]Rom 5:13[/b][/u]) The law was given that the knowledge of sin would be revealed. ([b][u]Romans 3:10[/u][/b]) So sin existed before the law. Sin existed without the law. But the law was given to bring the knowledge of sin, the law was given to declare (not originate) sin.

We should treat people right (not sin against them), because they are valuable. ([b][u]Luke 12:7[/u][/b]) . God's well-being is valuable and we were made in His image. The value of anything determines how it should be treated. We should not sin against God and neighbor because of their intrinsic value.

And since value determines treatment, and well-being is intrinsicly valuable, God wills the well-being of His people and of Himself, and gives Laws which will protect and promote that well-being.

And so, we can always trust God when He asks us to obey Him. Whenever God says to do something, or not to do something, we can trust that He has good intentions. We never have to question His goodness or intelligence. Disobedience is an insult to both His goodness and intellingence.

And we can also understand why His Law will never pass away, because God always cares about His people. He will not repeal His moral law of love, He will not take it back, because He always cares about His people. A father who gives no laws does not care about his children.

 2007/10/23 2:26
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re: The Foundation of Moral Obligation

Quote:
Lazarus1719 wrote:

The Law does come from God's WILL, but His WILL is subjected to His INTELLIGENCE. The Law is the will of God. God's will is the law. But His will is subjected to His intelligence.

The better way to describe God's Law is being based on His character and His character is good will. Therefore, the Law comes from God's character.

Quote:
Lazarus1719 wrote:
but His WILL is subjected to His INTELLIGENCE. The Law is the will of God. God's will is the law. But His will is subjected to His intelligence.

Could I sugjest that His will is subjected to His character since the law is based on it?
Reality is subjected to His INTELLIGENCE since that is what created.(Pro 3:19, Pro 3:20, Pro 8:22-31)

Quote:
This is the God of the bible, He knows (Divine Intelligence) what is good and beneficial for His people and commands it, and He knows (Divine Intelligence) what is harmful and dangerous for his subjects and outlaws it.

The God of the bible Himself is good and beneficial for His people, therefore, HE cammands that the law to be fullfilled.

Quote:
He did not give us laws for no good reason. He did not give us laws that we could not keep, so that He could send us to hell. He gave us laws so that we wouldn't sin, because sin is harmful to the creation that He loves.

Amen! He knows that man can fulfill the righteousness of the law by walking after the Spirit(Rom 8:4), that iw how and why HE commands it.
All man must to is to choose to submit only by faith that is inate in every man.

However, the reason that sin is harmful to the creation that He loves is because it is against HIS character and/or Image, that is why sin is harmful to the creation that He loves. He desires man to be conformed to the image or character of his Son.

Quote:
And since value determines treatment, and well-being is intrinsicly valuable, God wills the well-being of His people and of Himself, and gives Laws which will protect and promote that well-being.

I thought HE gives the law to bring man to Christ(Gal 3:24) knowing that we can not keep them apart from Him.

Quote:
And we can also understand why His Law will never pass away, because God always cares about His people. He will not repeal His moral law of love, He will not take it back, because He always cares about His people. A father who gives no laws does not care about his children.

His Law will never pass away, because God/His character never changes, therefore His law never will change or pass away.

 2007/10/23 22:20Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3698
Ca.

 Re:

Is not the Law fulfilled in Christ, and what was His commandment? We cannot fulfill the law in ourselves, but by the Faith of Jesus Christ that is in us, we can already see ourselves and recon ourselves by His Faith as perfect in Him.

Colossians 1:27-28 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Fulfill the Law? How?

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Num 6:13 And this [is] the law of the Nazarite, when the days of his separation are fulfilled: he shall be brought unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation:

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me.

Jhn 15:25 But [this cometh to pass], that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

How do we fulfill the Law?

Not by keeping it in the flesh, but by keeping it by the Spirit of Christ that is in us and not our new creature Life. Christ in you the Hope of Glory is our only way of keeping the Law, by the Power of the Holy Spirit that teaches this Christ that is in us.

Are we not dead to the Law alive unto God, through the Christ that is birthed in us?

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

7:4 twice just so we get it. We cannot bring forth fruit by keeping the Law. We can only bring forth fruit in Christ. Herein is the fruit we produce.

Jhn 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

"I am crucified with Christ." I have fallen into the ground with Him. I don't abide alone anymore. I have Christ in me the Hope of Glory. I died in Christ that I might live unto God. See yourself dead to sin and buried with Christ and resurrected in Him and by Him and with Him. His work on the Cross, not my works lest any man should boast.

Jhn 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Jhn 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Keep the Law all you want, it won't produce any fruit unto God. Only in Christ will the fruit come forth, the righteous fruit of the law fulfilled in Christ that is birthed in us. Then and only then will God be able to receive the fruit that is produced and that by the Christ in us only.

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

How is this accomplished?

Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God.

Galatians 2:19-21 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Do you see the Christ that liveth in you? The only righteous One and He is our righteousness.

1 Corinthians 1:29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Christ Liveth in me: Phillip



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Phillip

 2007/10/24 18:12Profile





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