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BeYeDoers
Member



Joined: 2005/11/17
Posts: 370
Bloomington, IN

 Re:

Everett, now you have me confused :-( When you STATE what you believe, it sounds like Oneness theology (you say you agree with Blazed, and he is presenting classic Oneness). You STATE that the Trinity is wrong and Father, Son, Holy Spirit are the same person w/o distinction. But when you EXPLAIN what you believe, it sounds very much like you are presenting Trinitarianism.

One response though: You say that trinitarians "divide" God into three. We do not. There is 1 God, manifested as 3 "persons". The Father is God but is NOT the Son/Word who is God but is NOT the Holy Spirit who is God. God is not "made up" of three, but is "One as three". A Tri-unity.


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Denver McDaniel

 2007/10/20 20:49Profile
Everett
Member



Joined: 2007/5/3
Posts: 77
West Bloomfield, MI

 Re:

I have no idea, this is crazy. It is a mystery that I cant explain.

I said you cant ever convince me not because I was going to believe what I wanted to believe but because from what I have researched and studied the trinity originated from the catholic church and was used in catholic baptism but the apostles never mentioned the trinity word or the meaning as to three "persons" in the Godhead. I understand three like it says these three are one but persons make it seem like you are saying three gods cause a person is a being like I am one person not three persons. There would be three everett's who would have to have different personalities or else they would be clones and God doesn't make clones. Jesus Christ wasnt a clone of God he was God. Adam wasn't a clone either he was made IN the image of God. Jesus WAS THE image and LIKENESS of God.

I have no idea what to say to this: "Hear O Israel the Lord your Gods is one Lord" which you said is the original passage because to our thinking that doesn't make sense. I mean "God you just said that you are one at the same time saying that you are many". It seems so contradictory but there is always an anwser to these things for God cannot lie.

The Son came out of the Father from his mouth, he spoke the word and the seed which is the word was sent and the seed was received into the womb and the seed conceived by the overshadowing of the holy spirit and the seed germinated and eventually God's Son was born. Like wise our father's send a seed and it is placed in a womb and the seed becomes a child and the child came from the union of the Father and the Mother, so the child is technically part of their parents body, the child is their parents own flesh and blood, we bear the image and likeness of our natural father. We are like them and of them. We are their offspring. We take on the name of our Father so did Christ. Compare the operations of the natural father and his son with our heavenly father and his dear son.

If there is three person in heaven and they are all God who are we to worship. Are we going to for a century worship God the Father then for another century worship the Son and then the Holy Spirit? I see it as this: God is a spirit that is without lenght, width, depth or height for he is everlasting. He is every where at the same time. How can God be visible except he reveal himself, except he manifest himself. Everyone I believe who has seen God has seen the son in different measures b/c the son is the word made flesh, made visible and the word is God, the word made flesh is the image and likeness of God, the word explains God, the word shows God. God is invisible so how can we see him except the help of his word. I don't believe there will be two or three persons in heaven b/c who will we worship? God is a spirit who is everywhere, who can we corporately worship in heaven except his Son. Read this scripture it wiil blow your mind:

I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;

That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Thank You for your comment. I will definitely go back and study the scriptures from a open mind and see if what ever body is saying is indeed true for I love the truth and if the truth be this then I will get on your side but if the truth be the other I will remain but i don't think it is possible because this thing is too hard to explain.





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Chad Everett Dalton

 2007/10/20 20:50Profile
Everett
Member



Joined: 2007/5/3
Posts: 77
West Bloomfield, MI

 Re:

Where did I sound or how do I sound like I was presenting Trinitarianism?


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Chad Everett Dalton

 2007/10/20 20:54Profile
Everett
Member



Joined: 2007/5/3
Posts: 77
West Bloomfield, MI

 Re:

"No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God (jesus); only he has seen the Father."

"No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only (jesus), who is at the Father's side, has made him known." This verse is a big enigma. Jesus is at the father side while he is on earth. The question is who is the father? Look below.

"Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."

Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work."

The Father is God. God is Jesus. God in his divine nature dwells in inapproachable light and has never been seen untill Jesus the image and likeness of God made him known and showed us the Father who no one has seen or heard except Jesus.

"I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me. 37And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent.

This is all mind boggling. God is awesome. I don't know what more to say but keep on striving for the truth, don't settle for old bread, stale bread but seek fresh manna from heaven. Keep on searching the scriptures diligently to gain a greater understanding of God but I think we will both come to the state like Paul when he said: Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments,and his paths beyond tracing out!"Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?"


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Chad Everett Dalton

 2007/10/20 21:19Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

now we can clearlty see the need to make water = baptism in john 3;5 even though it is forced into the text.
Its not that we are trying to be scripturally accurate.
we are fickle and need our doctrine protected by scripure.
We have no choice but to "fix" the great comission becuase our doctrine dictates Jesus only.
Now we got to "fix" the trinity by disqualifying those that believe the bible.

This is a typical tactic to make your 'oponent' look stupid

Kinda reminds me of the post trib. debate.[just connect them to tim lehaye and some little girls dream in 1849]
The trinity can't be traced to the catholic church as its origin
Why are mens eyes blinded to the truth?.
Maybe reason isnt enough to interpret Gods word.
You can intellectually argue with everet but he needs more than convincing intellectually.


Any time I mess with the God head I must be willing to accept what goess with it.[ lets see....what was that scripture about changing Gods word?]


....David

 2007/10/21 9:04Profile
Everett
Member



Joined: 2007/5/3
Posts: 77
West Bloomfield, MI

 Re:

Show me one scripture where anyone in the bible is baptized in the names Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit or by using the phrase "in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit". You see I can't say that nobody was baptized in the NAME OF the father, the son and the holy spirit because the NAME of the father, the son, and the holy spirit is THE LORD JESUS CHRIST but nobody in the bible is baptized in that formula (the name of the father, the son and the holy spirit) because it is obsolete and the Name of Jesus supersedes it because Jesus is the Fullness of the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) bodily. It was Jesus that died for our sins and therefore our sins are washed away by his blood through baptism in his name. There is no harm if we do all things in the name of jesus whether by word or deed as the Apostle Paul says b/c if we lift up the name of Jesus the Son then we are lifting up his Father too for they are the same. The office of the Holy Spirit doesn't ask for worship b/c the Holy Spirit's mission is to speak of the Son and always do things pertaining to Him. The Father is not lifted out b/c if we so adore the Son for what he has done we will likewise adore the Father for they are the same thing. You may hear me saying thank you Jesus and then saying thank you father. You might hear me praying to the Father and then asking Jesus for help. The Name of Jesus is the bottom line. You cant go more deeper into that name because that name is a earthly name. You may say that i am the father of the family or the son but what is your name. You can go deeper in the titles Father, Son and Holy Spirit and the name jehovah Rapha b/c they all point to Jesus right? Every father or son has a name and the name of Jesus just happens to fulfill the name of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. The Name of Jesus just happens to fulfill the name Immanuel and the name prince of peace or mighty God. You see, you cant go any deeper into the name of Jesus b/c Jesus is the fulfillment of the law and the prophets all that is written in the old testament will be found in Jesus and his Church who are one and the same body through union by the spirit.

Please really, do an unbiased and open mind research on the origin of the trinity. Where it came from and where it started and even before Christianity there is and are a trinity of gods that are and were used in the pagan religions such as the egyptian trinity: Osiris, Iris and Seth. The roman trinity: Jupiter, Juno, and Minerva and there is even a wicca trinity: Maiden, Mother, and Crone. Now that we are not bound by strict rules and a law that says that we can't read anything else but the bible or a law that says that we cant hear anything from the bible except from the priests mouth lets go and do some research b/c history can reveal itself what is truth but we must use the guidance of the holy spirit to know the fact from the myth.


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Chad Everett Dalton

 2007/10/21 11:37Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Everett, Brother ...

Think this has been about beaten into the ground, its becoming cyclical. Please do a search of the site on this matter, there has been quite a deal of past discussion.


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Mike Balog

 2007/10/21 12:53Profile
mizpeh
Member



Joined: 2007/10/21
Posts: 4


 Re:

Logic,

I agree with you that born of the water is water baptism. Since Jesus said 'you must be born again', I wonder if you would consider anyone who has not been baptized as being saved?

 2007/10/21 20:49Profile
Everett
Member



Joined: 2007/5/3
Posts: 77
West Bloomfield, MI

 Re:

Okay, I will, in fact I am right at this moment researching this subject but if there has been already past discussions and this hasn't been solved then it is useless to continue to try.

Sorry, I guess it is more beneficial from now on to devote myself to praying for our eyes to be opened to the assurance of the truth and that this spiritual stronghold, this wall and bulwark would be torn down so that we can walk together in unity without having to come back to the "Oneness" and "Trinity" controversy.

God Bless you all on SI. Keep on serving and loving Jesus to the end. "Saints don't stop praying for the Lord is nigh, he will hear your cry. For the Lord has promised and his word is true. Saints don't stop praying, he'll answer you."

"Dear God please send us a genuine Holy Ghost Revival in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. "


_________________
Chad Everett Dalton

 2007/10/21 21:04Profile
Everett
Member



Joined: 2007/5/3
Posts: 77
West Bloomfield, MI

 Re:

If one were to go solely upon the scripture that says "he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" and not regard the other scripture that says "he that endures to the end shall be saved" is not rightly dividing the word of truth because it is possible for one to believe and be baptized but not endure to the end.

So all I can say is that such a one in this case needs to compare scripture with scripture and ask God to give him understanding on them so that he'll know what it really means to be saved.


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Chad Everett Dalton

 2007/10/21 21:28Profile





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