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BlazedbyGod
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Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

"A person can't be filled with the Holy Ghost as Cornelius and his household were for what fellowship hath light with darkness. John said that whosoever BELIEVETH on him should NOT PERISH but have everlasting life. He didn't say that whosever gets baptized should not perish."

Mark 16:16 He that BELIEVETH AND IS BAPTIZED shall be saved;..'

He that believeth [b]AND IS BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED[/b], he that believeth not shall be damned.

That is plain and simple. And the reason he didn't say he that believeth not and is not baptized shall be damned-is because unbelieveres don't get baptized-BELIEVERS do!

 2007/10/15 23:20Profile
ChrisJD
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Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi everyone.


"Quote:
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It is my understanding that we are baptized because we have received remission of sins through the blood of Jesus Christ (believing that He is the Christ and that He shed His blood on the cross for our sins).
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Your understanding is correct. Do not let the grace of God be perverted by the doctrines of men!"



Wanted to add to what was mentioned here this also, from the book of Acts:


"And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith." -Acts 15:7-9





[i]And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. [/i]






Grace and peace.


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/10/16 1:58Profile
BlazedbyGod
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Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:


It is my understanding that we are baptized because we have received remission of sins through the blood of Jesus Christ (believing that He is the Christ and that He shed His blood on the cross for our sins).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Your understanding is correct. ]


Grace and peace.




That is incorrect. No scripture teaches that once you believe in Jesus you automatically have the Blood of Jesus applied to your life/sins.

Faith alone or by itself, or without works saves [b]NO ONE[/b]. James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? [/b]

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well:[b]the devils ALSO BELIEVE[/b], and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O VAIN MAN, that FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD!!!!!!!

James even called the man vain who believes that faith alone can save-He said even the devils believe-does that mean the devils are saved?-NO, under NO circumstance.

We are justified by works-what works, the works in obedience unto God-the very works that the devils that believe lack. Did you not read:

James 2:21 21 Was not Abraham our father JUSTIFIED BY WORKS, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, AND BY WORKS was faith MADE PERFECT? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

The father of faith was justified BY WORKS!! What were his works, offering up Issac as instructed by God in obedience to God. Any person who rejects being baptized is in sin which is disobedience to God-which it was one simple act of disobedience that got Adam and Eve kicked out of the presence of God from the garden.

Yes, we are saved [b]BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH[/b][b] AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES[/b]: it is the gift of God: not of works lest any man should boast.

But you must remember, faith without works IS DEAD. And the " not of works lest any man should boast" is referring to man's OWN works, it is not referring to God's Work through the operation of salvation.

Once again, the Bible plainly says we are WATER BAPTIZED [b][size=medium]FOR[/size][/b]THE REMISSION OF SINS.

Acts 2:36 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren,
[b]WHAT SHALL WE DO?[/b]38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and[b] be BAPTIZED EVERYONE OF YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS[/b]..."

He plainly said be baptized [b]in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS [/b][b][b]

It is unscriptual to say you are baptized because you already received remission of sins-that is unscriptual.

Jesus Christ left the act of remitting sins to the Apostles ( I will probably be called a heretic for that), but that is what he did:

John 20:23 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, [color=CC0000]Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins YE REMIT, THEY ARE REMITTED UNTO THEM; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.[/color]

He said " whose soever sins YE(YOU) REMIT, THEY ARE REMITTED unto them; AND whose soever sins YE(you) retain, they are retained.

The Apostles remitted sin by water baptizing people in the name of JESUS CHRIST. Again, this is why, Peter one of the 12, says in Acts 2:38

Acts 2:38 "....and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ [b]FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS[/b]

The name of this thread is the "Apostles Doctrine"-this was their teaching, even in the Word of God.

On the same day, on the Day of Pentecost, the Bible says :

Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers

 2007/10/16 9:18Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi BlazedbyGod.


With the household of Cornelius, God Himself bore them witness


"And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;" -Acts 15:8


He bore witness of their hearts.

That they were purified. By faith.


That is, before they were baptized in water.




Chris


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/10/16 9:27Profile
BlazedbyGod
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Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Quote:

ChrisJD wrote:
Hi BlazedbyGod.


With the household of Cornelius, God Himself bore them witness

"And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;" -Acts 15:8
He bore witness of their hearts.
That they were purified. By faith.
That is, before they were baptized in water.


Chris



"And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;" -Acts 15:8

Did you not read Acts 10:47 Can ANY MAN forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

These men just received the Holy Ghost and Peter still says not even they can forbid to be water baptized.

 2007/10/16 10:03Profile









 Re:

Everyone from Abraham, to the thief on the cross to the apostles were saved by faith. Some in my fellowship coming from a Church of Christ background put a very heavy emphasis on water baptism to the point of baptizmal regeneration... however when asked if someone who is converted in their heart out in the dessert with no water around and is killed on their way to find water to be baptized is saved or not they will back down and say yes they are saved... by grace through faith. I worry about anyone who can not understand this, the foundation of salvation, faith, true faith, cleansing faith, saving faith.

As a former thug in our fellowship puts it.. if you go and get beat into a gang, you become a member... but you better go and get your tat afterwards because its commanded as a mark of your membership... the tat doesn't make you a member of the gang, its a mark, more then symbolic, but less then qualifying.

OK, thats not a great analogy, but it's better then the reckless cherry picking and throwing around of scripture that some people use to support their religous arguments.

I think brother Mike said it best when this came up last... just get baptized.

In Christ - Jim

 2007/10/16 10:27
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Quote:

ChrisJD wrote:
Hi BlazedbyGod.
With the household of Cornelius, God Himself bore them witness

"And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;" -Acts 15:8
He bore witness of their hearts.

That they were purified. By faith.


That is, before they were baptized in water.




Chris



The Bible also says that Christ was the Lamb that was slain BEFORE the Foundations of the World, but he still had to literally and physically come and die on the Cross.

He was slain before he was slain, but he still had to physically come to earth and be slain.

When it came to the Gentiles, God had to give them the Holy Ghost first by his divine power-this is why as Peter was preaching, the Holy Ghost just fell on them without Peter even laying hands....God had to do it this way to the Gentiles, because if not, there would have been no way that the disciples would have water baptized Gentiles- Peter knew they were granted repentance by the fact that the Holy Ghost fell on them-then he knew, that, as scripture says, " repentance was granted unto them" thus it was now that they could be baptized with water.

Acts 11:18"...Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life."


 2007/10/16 10:32Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi again BlazedbyGod,




"These men just received the Holy Ghost and Peter still says not even they can forbid to be water baptized."



But what does this mean. Did this mean that Peter thought they still must be cleansed from sin by being baptised in water?



He testifies later, in this passage in Acts 15 that

"God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost"



God had testified of their hearts that they were purified by faith(Acts 15:9). And were they not then united to Christ through the Holy Spirit?


And if they were united to Christ, what more cleansing from sin could they have recieved from water baptisim?


It seems to me that Peter is not here expressing his unwillingness to forbid them from some further cleansing through water baptisim. But that he was unwilling to forbid them the obediance to, and open and public declaration of, their faith and unity with Christ, which God had just testified of Himself, by giving them the Holy Spirit.


I call to mind what God had told Peter beforehand:



"And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common." -Acts 10:15




[i]What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common[/i]



Please forgive me if I do not continue in this discussion. I'd like to look more towards the confrence.


Chris


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/10/16 10:35Profile
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Quote:

jimdied2sin wrote:
Everyone from Abraham, to the thief on the cross to the apostles were saved by faith.

I think brother Mike said it best when this came up last... just get baptized.

In Christ - Jim




My brother, nobody in scripture was saved by faith ALONE. Faith without works has always been dead-even in the Old T.

Abraham was justified BY WORKS when he OFFERRED(that's the work) up Issacc upon the altar.

Again, if people are saved by faith alone-then even the devils in James that Believe are saved.

And even these devils of Matt 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
I guess even they are saved as well-because they have confessed and believed?

Please read this slow:

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? ...18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils ALSO BELIEVE, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit F9 is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 2007/10/16 10:41Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2741
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Thanks for your excellent contributions to this thread Josef and Chris. Whenever we take up the topic of salvation we need to be reminded that the whole of Scripture makes it very clear that we are saved by grace through faith.

The Scriptures also teach that the initial act of obedience in the early church was a public confession of that faith. That public confession came forth in baptism so that baptism is linked with repentance. "Repent and be baptized" is to say "repent of your sin and make public confession." It may be very much like Romans 10:9-10, "If you believe in heart God raised Him from the dead, and confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' you will be saved."

So, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of sin," simply takes the confession and the faith and puts it together. You want to stay away from anything that would strike a blow at salvation by faith which is all through Scripture. We want to see baptism for what it is, the outward confessionn of the inward belief.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2007/10/16 10:47Profile





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