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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Toronto Videos

I watched three of the videos, and to be honest I was saddened by the behaviour of this so called pastor. Yet I am quickly reminded that Paul said "if any man thinks he standeth let him take heed lest he fall."
I too hunger more and more for the Holy Spirit to move throught this land. Yet I do not believe He will cause people to laugh, bark , or cluck for He will (as JESUS said)
"reprove the world of sin, of righteousness, and of judgement"
"He(Spirit) will guide you into all truth:for He shall not speak of himself"
I thank the LORD for this site, for it has provided encouragement, as well as conviction.
GOD Bless you all.

patrick heaviside

 2004/5/19 16:29Profile

Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37110
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

 Re: Toronto Videos

I watched three of the videos, and to be honest I was saddened by the behaviour of this so called pastor. Yet I am quickly reminded that Paul said "if any man thinks he standeth let him take heed lest he fall."

The things that are happening in Christendom has made my heart sink again and again. I really have a burden that I want to go and weep aloud to the churches and say [b]this isn't christianity!![/b]. I just watched a video of Art Katz I HIGHLY recommend everyone to listen to the words of this [b]true[/b] prophet of God.

[url=]The Love of the Truth (video) [/url]
Art Katz speaks to a church in New Zealand and shares his heart of the change in the prophetic how its become something foriegn to the new testament type. He also goes into some detail about the Toronto 'blessing' movement and the pecularities that are transpiring in most of Christendom. [i]This message will stir you to seek and love the truth at any cost, may God grant some to follow![/i]

SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/5/19 16:45Profile

Joined: 2003/12/30
Posts: 297
Connecticut, USA

 Re: Toronto Videos

Here are a few segments from Art Katz' video: THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH

The unifying theme is the misuse of God

“That an intractible enemy bent upon Israel’s destruction could ever be placated by a negotiated peace in the seductive hope of a middle-eastern Arab-Israeli prosperity is a lie. A lie that is employing “God” as legitimizing the possession of the land without any real regard to Him in its conduct or purpose as a nation.

“I don’t want you to miss that. What is a lie? A lie is when you sanctify or seek to justify your possession of the land on the basis of prophecies that speak about a return and a possession WITHOUT ANY TRUE REGARD TO THE GOD WHO HAS SPOKEN THOSE WORDS and are simply employing them as a justification for your possession.

“Such fraudulence makes for deception, and deception makes for disaster as we shall soon enough, I believe, have occasion to witness.

“My question is: TO WHAT DEGREE ARE WE AS THE CHURCH EQUALLY, OR COMPARABLY, DECEIVED IN OUR OWN MISCONCEPTION AND MISUSE OF GOD? If Israel is misusing God to justify it’s possession of the land, to what degree are we equally in a lie in the misuse of God in the vindication and justification of ourselves?

“I don’t think I have yet recovered from the Full Gospel breakfast in Germany and the Swedish speaker in his luxurious shirt – I’m sure you would know the company that produces it. Its emblem was all over. A good week’s salary at least – and he got up by saying, “AND THE LORD SAID TO ME THIS MORNING …’” and I leaned forward to hear what the Lord said to him, and as quickly fell back in a slump in my seat for the Lord had said NOTHING. It was only, what shall I say, a manner of speaking, to give to one’s sharing a certain kind f weight it would not otherwise have had. HOW DARE WE SAY “The Lord has said to me…” when He has not said. Merely to employ it is an artifice, as a kind of religious expediency that we hear so often and so frequently that we no longer take note.

“How many things that pass for “prophecies” are so bogus and so questionable or so clearly out of the flesh AND NO ONE SAYS A WORD as they are spoken publicly and we just nod and go on thinking that we have not paid for that. You need to know that when you take liberties with the issue of Truth and allow things to go forth that are not questioned or brought to the light you do not go on as you were before. It brings an increasing deadening to one’s spirit so that you become less able to make discernments and corrections the next time, until finally you’re totally incapable at all.

“The love of the Truth requires a vigilance for the Truth. And that is daily. And in the last days, I would say hourly and moment by moment. That’s expensive. But there’s no cheap way; because if we lose that sense, we’ve lost everything. We’re hollow. We’re gongs and cymbals and we have no effect on the society about us. What a melancholy, pathetic end for the Church that has turned in on itself and whose last existence is mere succession of services. Who have not even impressed our own children with the seriousness of what we are about, let alone the world.”

Art goes on to speak of “our haste in celebrating clairvoyant trivia as ‘the gift of prophecy’ –worse, as the prophetic office itself -- We can’t even distinguish between the gift of prophecy and the office of prophet, and I can’t think of more deadly confusion.”:

He speaks of:

“Our haste in construing flamboyance as “annointing”

“The gift of gab as “preaching”

“Religious manipulation as “the moving of the Spirit”

“Amplified noise as “worship”

“Shallow, boisterous camaraderie as “fellowship”

“All of which “makes me suspicious whether our foundation is really upon the costly cornerstone laid in Zion.”

In addition to other matters, he raises the issue of “prosperity” and sees in it an inherent rejection of suffering and the Cross.

Sorry I haven’t the time to transcribe more. Hope I’ve conveyed a taste of what’s in it. This video is powerful and it will cut.


Roger P.

 2004/5/20 1:20Profile

Joined: 2004/5/17
Posts: 102
Escondido, CA


Oh, gosh! Don't get me started. This is one of the subjects of Christianity that upsets me more then anything. It's so sad. These people represent God wrongly and give Him a bad image. They misuse his gifts (if they were even give those gifts by God in the first place).

Galatians 5:22-23 KJV
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Galatians 5:22-23 NLT
But when the Holy Spirit controls our lives, he will produce this kind of fruit in usl love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Here there is no conflict with the law.

God is a God of order. He doesn't desire people to run around, bark, and act like chickens. He produces self-control in us. These things, where people are "filled with the Spirit" and can't control what they do(laughing uncontrollably, shaking, rolling around), aren't from God's Spirit.

1 Cor. 14:26 NLT
But everything that is done must be useful to all and build them up in the Lord.

But be sure that everything is done properly and in order.

I don't see how all those acts are useful to build up the body. All that it shows me is that they can do crazy stuff and they can't control it. It glorifies the person doing it, not God.


 2004/5/20 13:27Profile

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