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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Did Jesus Choose?

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Joined: 2005/4/19
Posts: 772


Dorcas-a beautiful post as always.


 2007/10/4 14:54Profile

Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


Mseaman, Yes i also believe "the cup" issue was a huge far reaching dilema. How can sin be placed on God? This is seemingly impossible.This had to be what Jesus was refering to.
Not the sin of a man but the sin of the world.
This salvation we have is so great and awesome the human mind doesnt have the capacity to fully fathem it.

 2007/10/5 21:43Profile

Joined: 2007/10/5
Posts: 14

 Re: Did Jesus Choose?

I was at a Bible study last night and we were talking about Christ being reluctant("take this cup") to go to the cross but deciding to follow the will of the Father.
I've been thinking about a question. If Jesus was fully man and fully God(and He was) was it really possible for him to choose something in rebellion to the Fathers will? I realize that because He was human, He was tempted and had contrary desires, but could He have actually decided NOT to die. Wouldn't that have been sin? If Jesus had sinned, He would not have been God! God is not double minded. I know this might open the door to thoughts about "sinless perfection" through Christ in us, I don't really want to go there. I just wanted to know if anyone had any input

Firstly I feel it is important to address what you believe the cup meant to Jesus Christ?

To cut to the point the cup among the fact that it meant the sins of mankind, the wrath of God, disease, insult, wickedness, violence, suffering and beating from the Roman guards, I believe the most crucial meaning to Jesus Christ was that this cup meant separation from the Father. Perfect LOVE, that knew no separation for eternity past to eternity future, for a moment in time had to separate from God. Jesus Christ had to bear the separation of God the Father "Eloi Eloi Lama Shabahtani" my God my God why have you forsaken me? It's like tearing your body in half, that's what it meant to Jesus Christ. It meant EVERYTHING to Jesus Christ because God the Father and God the Son were inseparable and had never known separation.

So essentially Jesus Christ God, was choosing between being separated from God the Father for that moment in time (whether it was hours or eternity no one knows but separation it was) or from being separated from mankind for eternity.

Jesus Christ made a choice to bear the wrath of God and ultimately the separation from the one He loved perfectly to give us a chance at being redeemed.

Yes it was a choice, He definitely had the choice of rejecting mankind and being in the presence of God uninterrupted, or accepting the cup and being separated from God, something God had never experienced before. That is AGAPE, that is love. Love is a choice, always a choice. If Jesus Christ had refused the cup He would not have been sinning because He was not obliged to do what He did on behalf of God. For God (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, for whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

Glory to God Hallelujah!!! :-) :-)

D. C.

 2007/10/5 22:43Profile

Joined: 2005/7/5
Posts: 382
The Netherlands


At school we had a discussion about this with the following as basis:

1) POSSE PECCARE: Choice not to sin (like Adam).
2) NON POSSE NON PECCARE: Not able to not sin.
3) POSSE NON PECCARE: Power to not sin.
4) NON POSSE PECCARE: Not able to sin.

Adam was able to choose [edit]not[/edit] to sin, we are not able not to sin, but as believers we receive the power of the HS not to sin. But at times when we are not close to God or just deceiving ourselves we do sin. Apart from all those (small) sins we do we don't know about.

Choosing 4 would mean that the satan trying to tempt Jesus in the desert would be a facade, why would he try if it was impossible?

Myself I did choose for 4 (with only 3 other classmates) as its just impossible for God to be divided in himself. But as Jesus being fully man he also became hungry.
My teacher said he was between 3 and 4, but very close to 4. As that Jesus would have the choice to make bread of the stones, but it would never come up in His mind.

Liberals might preach 2, Jesus did sin, etc. One and 3 is weird as you can imagine it is by far unlikely that Jesus had a hard time not sinning.

Where do you guys stand?

[edit2]Ah my memory failed me!I said this in class: I choose 1, 3 and 4. But afterwards I found 4 with a tidbit 3 not bad.

Jonathan Veldhuis

 2007/10/6 5:33Profile

Joined: 2006/12/17
Posts: 49
Harrisburg PA


Thanks for all the input so far.

Dorcas, I really love how your heart comes out in your posts

It's one of those things that is hard for me to wrap my head around. BenWilliams-I think you captured the feeling of there being an answer but not an easy one! Although I also disagree that Jesus was afraid.

The cool thing is, I don't have to understand it!
Our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, came to this earth and poured out His blood so that I could be brought from death into life!! Praise His Holy Name! He deserves all of my life and I will give it to Him. My heart leaps inside of me for the priceless blessing of life that He has given me.

Sorry, I got sidetracked:)

That's an interesting question about satan tempting Jesus. I'm thinking that satan is not omniscient. He had to tempt Jesus now that He was in bodily form and in his domain to see if it were now possible to get Him to rebel. Notice that scripture doesn't say that satan continued to tempt him after that. He gave it a shot and then saw the futility.

Warrior-I would probably have to go with 4
BUT with some ever so slight leanings into 3 ;-)

Benjamin Kreps

 2007/10/6 7:38Profile

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