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rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
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 Re:

I must step back prior to WW2. There were two major movements of ecomomic philosophy that were in direct opposition to one another.

The seeds of Capitalism first emerged in Europe during the time of Calvin in the late 1500's. The industrial age with the notion of mass manufacturing developed first in England during the late 1800's. This economic phenomenon crossed the Atlantic and rooted itself in the US. The United States at the turn of the last century had experienced the growth of wealth which was mainly held by those who defined that period in history. It was the time of the Robber Barrons. All economic systems, (remember the doctrine of total depravity), fall short of the glory of God. The abuses of Capitalism at the turn of the century, proved no different. A few men, held vast amounts of wealth. The majority of the population in the leading countries did not share in this prosperity.

The rule by a few, whether it was a Czar in Russia or a Morgan or Rockefeller in the US, created a perception of inequality among the masses. The fruit of this disention manifested itself with the formation of a competing economic system. The seed of Communism took root first in Russia and then began to spread westward into Europe. These two economic systems are perfectly opposed to each other. The root of the difference between these two systems, I believe can be expressed in the question of ownership. Capitalism seeks to protect the rights of ownership of the individual. Communism seeks to give the rights of ownership to the masses. With this thought in mind, can you see the threat posed by Communism? The Capitalist, (those who have capital) perceived this question to their right of ownership as something that must not be allowed to flourish.

What I am attempting to do is to bring to light the principles for which men strive to maintain. I am not trying in any way to justify any political position. I am seeking to identify the thoughts that men yoke themselve to. These thoughts create the desires for which men strive. The evidence of man's faith is a result of these desires.

Out of time,
In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2004/5/28 11:16Profile
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Harare, ZIMBABWE

 Re: Goodly wisdom

Hello Jeff

This is indeed a great discussion you have going here. I agree with everyone. To add to that I believe to be wise we must have wisdom. It also important to accept that, wisdom and knowledge are Spiritual gifts from God as the scripture says, “ For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness; Colossians 1:9-11

I used to become so caught up in becoming wise that that I lost the plot and simplicity that is in Godly wisdom, “But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. Jas3:17

Another that brought me back to simplicity is, “For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.” Rom 12:3. And so when I embraced my foolishness it opened the door for the wisdom of God. (“Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.” Php3:12)

Your son in Christ
James


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James Gabriel Gondai Dziya

 2004/5/29 20:51Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
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 Re:

We as Christians spend quite a bit of effort to define words like justification, sanctification, and eternal security. In like manner, the world, especially in this last century has restled with words like Communism, Capitalism, Democracy, Nazism, and Fascism. These words represent the struggles of men. Blood has been spilled to promote each of these concepts men adhere themselves too.

During the period between the WW1 and WW2, all of these precepts of men came into direct opposition to one another. Nazism, Fascism, and Capitalism formed one side and Democracy and Communism the other. Now you may at first rebel with what I say, please have patience. Again focus on the thought of right of ownership. Nazism, Fascism, and Capitalism promote the power of a few over the majority. There are differences between each of these concepts. Yet the unifying precept among these forms of government are based on ownership. Nazism and Fascism sought to conquer the world. Capitalism is no different. The means of conquering may manifest themselves as being different yet the results are the same.

True Communism and Direct Democracy are one and the same precept. The Greeks practiced Democracy back before the incarnation of Christ. Edmund Burke wrote of Aristotle's thoughts: "I cannot help concurring [e.g., with Aristotle, inter alios] that an absolute democracy, no more than an absolute monarchy, is not to be reckoned among the legitimate forms of government. They think it rather the corruption and degeneracy than the sound constitution of a republic."

Burke's agreement with Aristotle is in reference to the fact that Aristotle called democracy one of three "evil" forms of government (the other two: ochlocracy and tyranny)."

On the other hand we have Democracy and Communism. Believe it or not Karl Marx based the precepts of Communism on Democracy.

"The word democracy originates from the Greek "demos" meaning "the people" and "kratein" meaning "to rule" or "the people to rule" which meant literally: "Rule by the People." The term is also sometimes used as a measurement of how much influence a people has over their government, as in how much democracy exists. Anarchism and Communism (as in the final stage of social development according to Marxist theory) are social systems that employ a form of direct democracy, but have no state.'

In a true democracy, one vote for every person, the interests of the majority would come to bear on all who live within this form of government. The right of ownership will follow the dictates of the majority for its own benefit. Again remember, man is totally depraved and is under the sway of the evil one.

So we have two opposing systems. Now again returning to the events prior to WW2, the right of rule and thus ownership were in direct conflict. Men like Henry Ford of Ford Motor Company, A.P. Sloan of General Motors, Watson of IBM, helped Adolf Hitler and Nazism to gain power in Germany. Sloan and Ford actually went to Germany to recieve a medal of accomendation for their efforts in supporting Hitler's rise to power. Why did these American's support Hitler? They were commonly yoked together against the growing threat of rule by the people. Communism, labor unions, and the thought that the common man could come together to usurp the rights of the few was a real threat to the ruling class.

The owners in America, the industrialist actually formed a group to discuss how the United States and Germany would divide up the world after Germany's conquest of Europe was complete. This group met officially until the bombing of Pearl Harbor.

To be continued.

James warns the believer of some of the things that represent the end times. "Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you! Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days. Indeed the [b]wages of the laborers[/b] who mowed your fields, which you [b]kept back by fraud[/b], cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as in a day of slaughter. [b]You have condemned, you have murdered the just; he does not resist you.[/b] James 5:1-6

Meditate on this warning. What do you see going on around you. How are the hearts of men swayed by terms like democracy, capitalism, and communism. Do the influences of Nazism and Fascism still exist? What are we yoking our hearts too?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2004/5/31 12:31Profile
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 Re:

At the end of WW2, the same systems were still entrenched. The Soviet Union now occupied Eastern Europe. All of Europe laid in ruin. The conflict between Communism and Capitalism intensified.

Initially, eastern Europe had begun to see some signs of economic recovery under the rule of Stalin. Western Europe was lagging behind. The powers that be in Washington decided that something had to be done to help Western Europe. It was of the utmost importance that the world not see Communism as a viable system. So the Marshall Plan was created. The United States gave Western Europe vast amounts of resources in order to stimulate economic recovery. In addition to this effort and new organization was created in the USA. The CIA was created to protect and promote the economic interests of the United States.

The first job assignment for the CIA was to influence the general elections of the nation of Italy. Italy had become a very important assignment because of what had happened in the end of WW2. Montgomery and Patton had defeated the Germans in Italy. Mussolini and his fascist organization were destroyed. The war continued in other parts of Europe. During this time northern Italy began to rebuild itself. The common people entered the vacant factories and began collectively to produce goods. The factories without it original owners began to thrive. Labor Unions and Socialist leanings began to grow into the fabric of the nation. This movement was seen as a threat. The Capitalist feared that Italy would elect a Socialist government into office.

Part of the CIA's strategy to combat the Socialist efforts was to contact US citizen's who had family still living in Italy. US citizens of Italian descent were encouraged to write to their families to promote Capitalism over Communism. This was the first battle waged by the CIA to protect the economic interests of the USA. The CIA was succesful.

So what can be seen by these activities? Behind the scenes men are striving to promote the philosophies of men.

Out of time,
In Christ,
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2004/6/1 18:20Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
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 Re:

Now we are back to the beginning of this thread. The United States unbenownst to the Jews and other who sought to prosecute the Nazi leadership as war criminals, actually recruited and pass laws to import these scientist into the U.S. The wisdom at the time was this, if we don't give these Nazi's a home, the Soviet Union our enemy will. So as I stated before, over 600 Mind Scientists entered the employment of the CIA. Please keep in mind, while the CIA is working to combat Communism, the KGB is seeking to undermine the Capitalistic system.

As I have also stated before, President Eisenhower warned our country of the control that the Military-Industrial complex was establishing in this country. Those who were part of this complex had access to the work being done in the area of Mind Science. The CIA developed many ways to interogate men who were considered to be in opposition to the economic interest of Capitalism. Terms like truth serems (sp) and brainwashing were coined during the 1950's. This reseach on controling the minds of men would soon leave the laboratory and enter into the public sector.

Out of time,
IN Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2004/6/2 16:12Profile
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 Re:

During the early 1950's, sectors of the US government sought to establish within the minds of the public, the threat that Communism posed to our existence. Words like terrorism were used quite freely. It reminds me of the similiar time we live in today. Listen to Walter Cronkite talk about those days.

http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1753982



In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2004/6/4 10:38Profile
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 Re:

Here is a little story about the things that James warned us about. Yes it exists in the USA.

By Michael Kahn

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - When garment worker Lupe Hernandez had a needle shoot through her finger, she chose to bandage it and continue sewing with her other hand out of fear that she might lose wages or even her job if she stepped away.

Hernandez, 29, has often worked in Los Angeles-area factories with no running water or bathrooms during her 12 years in the industry. A typical day lasted 11 or 12 hours without paid overtime or paid breaks, she said.

Yet even as many low-paying jobs in the U.S. garment industry move abroad, sweatshops still flourish in the Los Angeles area because of the large number of youth-oriented fashion retailers in Southern California, workers' rights groups say.

These companies rely on manufacturers and contractors that often operate as sweatshops -- many within sight of the gleaming glass skyscrapers of downtown Los Angeles -- to deliver finished products quickly to keep up with a fickle youth market, the labor groups say.

"There is a need to change fashions quickly," said Julie Su, an attorney with the Asian Pacific Legal Center. "There is something very appealing about local, domestic production."

Labor groups call Los Angeles the U.S. sweatshop capital and estimated that tens of thousands of workers are stuck in such factories because they lack the skills and often the legal status to find other jobs.

Many are recent immigrants, and Hernandez's situation is typical.

"You can take a break, but you don't earn enough," Hernandez said in Spanish during a recent interview at a factory in the Los Angeles garment district located just south of the city's financial center. "They don't ask for papers, and you don't need much experience."

Attention in recent years has focused on sweatshops outside the United States. In May, for example, Gap Inc. issued a report that acknowledged numerous violations -- from forced labor to physical punishment -- at its overseas factories.

Yet holding U.S.-based sweatshops accountable is difficult. Su said factories where workers are denied wages, physically abused or subjected to unsafe conditions simply shut down when facing fines and reopen in another location under a different name.

CRACKING DOWN

These sweatshops are very mobile, fly-by-night operations," said Joann Lo, lead organizer of the Garment Workers Center. "They just close up shop to avoid fines."

But the Los Angeles-based organization and other groups are trying to crack down on abuses with lawsuits targeting retailers that -- knowingly or unknowingly -- use contract manufacturers that produce goods under sweatshop conditions.

This has helped the Garment Workers Center win more than $1.4 million in judgments from retailers, manufacturers and contractors on behalf of workers since opening three years ago, Lo said.

Specifically, the groups have used a California law that allows them to hold retailers liable if a contractor or subcontractor where the abuses took place closes up shop.

In recent months, retailers like Bebe Stores Inc. and Wet Seal Inc. have settled lawsuits charging wage and overtime abuses.

Details of Bebe's settlement were not made public, while Wet Seal's new chief executive, Peter Whitford, has vowed to use only manufacturers and contractors that treat workers fairly and pay a decent wage.

Ilse Metchek, executive director of the California Fashion Association trade group, acknowledged a "significant" underground sewing operation exists in the Los Angeles area, the hub of California's $30 billion garment industry.

But she said workers' rights groups have chased easier-to-regulate big manufacturers out of state and unfairly targeted retailers with deep pockets.

"The bigger the shop, the less the problem," Metchek said. "They go after the names that are really trying to do the best job they can possibly do."

Workers agree that small factories pose the biggest problems. During a walk through a warehouse in the Los Angeles garment district, Hernandez pointed out dozens of operations that she called sweatshops on different floors.

Spanish-language postings offering work lined the walls, and groups of men loaded large rolls of uncut fabric into battered vans. Bundles of finished T-shirts, tops and other products lay on tables as workers hovered over sewing machines in cramped rooms where many windows remained closed even on a hot day.

Hernandez and other sweatshop workers like Catalina Martinez later said they have turned to the Garment Workers Center to try to improve working conditions at their jobs.

Martinez, who said she has seen employers hit workers for complaining, is learning English and computer skills in hopes of finding another job.

"I would like people to be more interested about the people who are making their clothes," she said, "and to educate themselves about how their clothes are being made."


These days are evil, and evilness pays no attention to the boudaries of a nation.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2004/6/8 13:37Profile
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 Re:

I'll get back to my main point soon, but there are so many current stories that help to illustrate the evil that surrounds us. This story is about Enron, and I believe represents a wider group of individuals and corporations that are stealing. The results of this stealing affects my children's education directly.

"(CBS) The Department of Justice reportedly has thousands of hours of Enron employees recorded during the West Coast power crisis. Now, some in Congress want all the tapes released.

"I want to make sure that no federal agency suppresses this information, makes the case harder for us to get relief," says U.S. Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash.

After CBS broadcast the voices of Enron energy traders gloating over the crisis they helped create, more tapes were released.

In one tape, an employee says, "You gotta think the economy is going to f------g get crushed, man. This is like a recession waiting to f-----g happen."

The tapes show Enron tried to bring California to its knees.

Elsewhere on the tapes, another employee says, "This is where California breaks."

"Yeah, it sure does man," says another.

And they proposed to do that by exporting energy out of the state so the company could drive up prices even more.

"What we need to do is to help in the cause of, ah, downfall of California," an employee is heard saying on the tapes. "You guys need to pull your megawatts out of California on a daily basis."

"They're on the ropes today," says another employee. "I exported like a f------g 400 megs."

"Wow,'' says another employee, "f--k 'em, right!"

Traders can be heard manipulating the market, using now-infamous schemes with names like death star, ricochet and fat boy.

One employee is heard asking, "You want to do some fat boys or, or whatever, man, you know, take advantage of it."

In fat boy, Enron traders used fake power sales to hide megawatts, shrinking the supply of energy and driving up prices. They also used the oldest trick in the book: lies.

"It's called lies. It's all how well you can weave these lies together, Shari, alright, so," an employee is heard saying.

The other employee says, "I feel like I'm being corrupted now."

The first employee adds, "No, this is marketing,"

"OK.''

The tapes could affect dozens of cases already filed against the company by California Attorney General Bill Lockyer.

"If these are ever heard by a jury, they're going get strung up," says Lockyer.

After hearing the tapes, the state's two U.S. senators demanded an immediate $8.9 billion refund.

At a recent hearing Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif. said, "All I can tell you is you have to listen to what's happening out there to ordinary people who you are responsible to help through this."

With Enron and other major energy companies in bankruptcy, big refunds are unlikely. But the tapes could provide the evidence states and cities need to break contracts they were forced to sign at the height of the energy crisis."

Please notice who is trying to stop the public from knowing the whole story, our government.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2004/6/9 12:22Profile
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 Re:

Do these things irritate you? Do you say to yourself, why bother with this thread? I've heard this on another site I participate in.

I believe God works the same always and the example that are given in the OT apply to us sometimes as a lesson other times a warning.

"Furthermore He said to me, "Son of man, do you see what they are doing, the great abominations that the house of Israel commits here, to make Me go far away from My sanctuary? Now turn again, you will see greater abominations." So He brought me to the door of the court; and when I looked, there was a hole in the wall. Then He said to me, "Son of man, [b]dig into the wall,[/b]" and when I dug into the wall, there was a door. And He said to me, "Go in, and see the wicked abominations which they are doing there," So [b]I went in and saw[/b], and there-every sort of creeping thing, abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, protrayed all around on the walls. And there stood before them seventy men of the elders of the house of Israel, and in their midst stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan. Each man had a censer in his hand, and thick cloud of incense went up....And He said to me, "Turn again, and you will see greater abominations that they are doing." So He brought me to the door of the north gate of the Lord's house; and to my [b]dismay[/b], women were sitting there weeping for Tammuz...Then He said to me, "Have you seen this, O son of man? Turn again, you will see greater abominations than these." So He brought me into the inner court of the Lord's house: and there, at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about twenty-five men with their backs toward the temple of the Lord and their faces toward the east, and they were worshipping the sun toward the east." Ezekiel 8

Please notice that God asked Ezekiel to dig. Please notice that God revealed the darkness of that generation to a son of man. This son of man was dismayed by everything around him. Are we believers dismayed, do we dig to understand the evil around us? Or do we dig to bury our heads in the sand?

The writer of Hebrews states, "For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those [b]who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."[/b] Hebrew 5:13-14

Do we desire to discern between good and evil as God reveals it or do we try not to meditate on what God's word teaches us in books like Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Amos, Hosea, Isaiah, and Revelation?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2004/6/10 15:39Profile
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 Re: Days ARE Evil

Another illustration:

Commentary

Impeaching unstable presidents

By Stephen Crockett and Al Lawrence
Online Journal Guest Writers

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June 10, 2004—"In meetings with top aides and administration officials, the President [sic] goes from quoting the Bible in one breath to obscene tantrums against the media, Democrats and others that he classifies as enemies of the state."

If you thought the above quotation was a reference to the darkest days of Richard Nixon when he was facing impeachment over the crimes of Watergate, you would be wrong. This quotation is the second paragraph of a brilliant but frightening story by Doug Thompson, publisher of Capitol Hill Blue, headlined Bush?s Erratic Behavior Worries White House Aides.

The story paints a picture of a paranoid and intolerant leader that cannot cope with any disagreements or opposing viewpoints. It paints a picture of a powerful man who does not trust the public he is supposed to serve. It gives an insiders view of how George Tenet was really fired for disagreeing with Bush. The Stalinist term "enemies of the state" for simple domestic political opponents is revealing.

The article speaks of an ever-growing enemies list. Bush's vulgar language makes a mockery of his supposed Christian politics that would shame the true Christians among his supporters. Bush seems dangerously unstable based on this article. Indeed, Bush sounds like Nixon in the darkest days of Watergate when Congress was moving to impeach him.

We are not talking the partisan frame-up of the Clinton impeachment era. We are talking about serious crimes and possible violations of the US Constitution that threaten the way the administration conducts our national business. These writers have been hearing behind the scenes rumbling about ticking time bombs that could bring down Bush before or (like Nixon) just after the presidential elections.

The spending of $700 million federal tax dollars on Bush's Iraq invasion before Congress authorized it and supposedly before the decision was made is impeachable. There are credible reports that Bush knew about the plans to out the CIA agent wife of Ambassador Wilson and that Bush did nothing to stop it. This is certainly impeachable if true and likely criminal. Jail time for Bush would certainly not be unreasonable. We are at "war! "

Enron's involvement in the California Energy crisis has just been confirmed. Enron's ties to Bush are beyond doubt. The actions of the Bush administration during this crisis should be investigated by a special prosecutor. Billions of dollars were stolen from taxpayers, consumers and businesses in California.

These writers believe that the Cheney Energy Taskforce may have engaged in criminal collusion with big oil and energy companies in the very first year of the Bush administration. We believe this is why the Bush administration is hiding the details from the American public. Could the plans for the invasion of Iraq have begun in this taskforce? Were American oil companies marking up maps of Iraq and dividing the spoils of the then future war long before the 9-11 attacks?

What dark secrets are being hidden from the American public? Republicans label any questioning of their actions or motives as "conspiracy theories," just like Nixon did in the 1970s. It worked then, briefly, and Nixon won re-election. After the election, we found that the charges were all true . . . and much worse was happening. There were hidden facts about Nixon that motivated his paranoia. Is it the same with Bush?

These writers believe that Bush and his people will be revealed in time to be far more sinister than Nixon. We believe this is the most corrupt administration in the history of the nation. And Nixon did not have the police-state tools of the falsely named USA PATRIOT Act to use against his political enemies.


We have joined along with other talk show hosts (Andy Johnson, Jerry Pippin, Guy James, Meria Heller, Peter Werbe and Radio Left) and others (Dems Online.net, ChewintheFat.com, Buzzflash.com and folksinger Yikes McGee) in endorsing the Democrats.com impeachment petition.

Linda Ronstadt has called for Bush's impeachment. Among others calling for impeachment are John Dean and Ramsey Clark, both of whom directly experienced the Nixon era.

Republicans would be wise to distance themselves from Bush and his policies as quickly as possible. Bush has begun a political meltdown that will make the Nixon collapse look mild in comparison. Both destroyed themselves for much the same reasons.

by Stephen Crockett and Al Lawrence


http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/061004Crockett-Lawrence/061004crockett-lawrence.html
_________________
When thou goest, it shall lead thee;
When thou sleepest, it shall keep thee;
And when thou awakest, it shall talk with thee.
(Proverbs 6:22)"

What is the truth? Is this propaganda or is it real. Dig as Ezekiel dug. Maybe the Lord will show you something.

You may say, but I don't have the time. That may be true. If you are frustrated with all these worldly things. Try the path that Abraham traveled. Read Hebrews 11. There is peace for those who travel this path.

In Christ
Jeff




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Jeff Marshalek

 2004/6/11 12:32Profile





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