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makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 612
Texas

 The New Day of Rest

A new day has been "limited" (KJV) through the words of David, as understood by the writer of Hebrews in chapter 4, verse 7 - "Again he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, Today...", The Greek word for "limiteth" comes from the root "oridzo" meaning to mark out, appoint, ordain, specify. God has specified a day for entering His rest. No, it's not Sunday, although that is a wonderful day, being the first of the week and special to many celebrating the resurrection. The new day that God has "limited" is Today! Today is that the day when you hear His voice and believe. Hearing His voice and believing enables us to enter the rest that the first generation who received the Law and the promises failed to enter because they did not mix what they had heard with faith. Those who have believed are the ones who enter this rest. Whether we are Jews or Gentiles, we become one new man through faith in Christ, according to the mystery revealed to the apostles and prophets. Righteousness is accounted unto "believing ones" who share in the faith of believing Abraham. The only true rest for anyone is found through believing in Christ Jesus. We must stand fast in this liberty and not allow anyone, however sincere, to seek to place a yoke of bondage, THE LAW, upon our necks. Those who are of the Law are slaves unto bondage. We should listen to Sarah, and get rid of the bond woman, THE LAW. Those who would seek to place the yoke of the Law upon the neck of any believer should be resisted lest the truth of the gospel be hindered. Paul made it clear - "For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them. Notice it dot not say "on the tablets of stone", rather everything written in the "book of the law." Those who would have believers observe a certain day need to deal honestly with the weight of this passage. Many who would make distinctions between permanent aspects of the law and the temporary ordinances which were done away with, live by a theology of contradiction. The Law set more days apart than the Sabbath. There were three annual festivals that every Jewish male was required to attend IN Jerusalem itself and no where else. Those who would argue that believers should keep a literal Sabbath, are quick to spiritualize the other feast days appointed by God. I would urge saints to stand fast in the only true and permanent way of entering the Sabbath rest of God - "Today if you hear His voice - harden not your hearts." The true rest of God is not entered into by observing a certain day, unless that day is Today! The day we hear and beieve.


_________________
Alan and Dina Martin

 2007/9/28 12:31Profile









 Re: The New Day of Rest


makrothumia,

Thank you for making an eloquent exposition of this topic. It's a while since I engaged on any thread around keeing 'the Sabbath'...

Quote:
The Law set more days apart than the Sabbath.

I believe a sabbath was a rest day. It wasn't necessarily a Saturday (by our reckoning), but could be any day of the week. I'm not knowledgeable on the details of the reasons for the various sabbaths, but while I knew that we enter into God's rest through faith in Christ, I've never heard it defined as [i]today[/i] and so clearly explained before. Amen and thank you.

 2007/10/1 11:13









 Re: The New Day of Rest

Dear Brother makrothumia,

Please allow me to disagree with you.

I would just like to ask you some questions if I may.

Quote:
""""""We must stand fast in this liberty and not allow anyone, however sincere, to seek to place a yoke of bondage, THE LAW, upon our necks. Those who are of the Law are slaves unto bondage."""""

This Law that you refer to. is this the same law, commandments, statutes and judgments of Psalm 119?

Was David into bondage?

Were all the prophets that warned Israel of the judgments coming upon them because they did not hallow the Sabbath into bondage as well?

Brother, The Law that Contain the commandment for us to keep the Sabbath is a law of Love not a law of bondage.

Please read Psalms 119 and tell me, Are you and king David in Disagreement? should I take your definition of God's law or King David?

Just few thoughts, Now over to you.

Jayme


 2007/10/1 16:40
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 612
Texas

 Re:

Dear Brother,

Thank you for such an excellent question. First of all, those men who obtained witness as having pleased God did so by faith - even while under the first covenant, so I do not think they were under bondage. However no one was, or ever will be declared righteous by works of the Law, so not even those righteous men who pleased God by their faith were able to become righteous by the Law. Now all those who would look to the Law for righteousness to be fulfilled in them would come under bondage. The Law is powerless to produce righteousness in anyone, for the Law made nothing perfect, and in that sense it is both weak and useless. Anyone who would think that righteousness would come by the observance of a day, a week, a feast, or by circumcision would come under the bondage. Anyone who would direct others to keep even one point of the Law to be made righteous, comes under obligation to do the whole Law. Only Christ who is the very life and righteousness of God can actually produce righteousness in anyone, and thus only those looking to Him to do so will actually become righteous in heart, and in actions. Remember that it was Peter who said, "Why do you test God by trying to place upon the neck of the disciples a yoke (ie; bondage) that neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? Yes, for a believer to look to the Law, a day, a feast, or circumcision for righteousness to be produced in him would be to place himself under bondage, the bondage of the Law, and Christ would become of none effect to him.
As for those to whom the Law was given, Israel alone and not Gentiles, we know that it was only introduced until the seed to whom the promise referred had come. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the Law. The Law was only put into effect to lead us unto Christ, now that we live in Christ, all the righteous requirements of the Law are fully met in us as we walk by the Spirit. Those who were under the Law and living by faith, never received the things promised, they were hoping for better things, things which we now possess in Christ.
I want to be very clear here. If anyone turns others back to weak and beggarly elements such as observing sabbaths, feasts, and other ordinances of the Law, we should fear for them like Paul. That middle wall of separation - the Law of commandments in ordinances - was destroyed in Christ body - thus making peace. Now that there is no longer a wall of separation - the purpose of God hidden from former generations is revealed through Christ's holy apostles and prophets. Christ has made one new man out of two. Therefore in Christ Jesus, there is no more Jew nor Greek...but we are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Anyone who attempts to get disciples to be circumcised or obey the Law of Moses is putting them under bondage, and will be judged for doing so.

makrothumia


_________________
Alan and Dina Martin

 2007/10/3 14:16Profile









 Re:

dear brother

you did not answer my questions.

This Law that you refer to. is this the same law, commandments, statutes and judgments of Psalm 119?

Was David into bondage?

Were all the prophets that warned Israel of the judgments coming upon them because they did not hallow the Sabbath into bondage as well?

Brother, The Law that Contain the commandment for us to keep the Sabbath is a law of Love not a law of bondage.

Please read Psalms 119 and tell me, Are you and king David in Disagreement? should I take your definition of God's law or King David?
_________________________________________________



 2007/10/3 18:06
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 612
Texas

 Re:

Dear Jayme,

I do not have to work at breathing, that is how easy it is for me to keep the Law, The Ten Commandments, that you speak of. The Spirit of God in me inspires me to do these things every day. I have been given a new heart and a new spirit that inspires me to live far beyond the weak boundaries of the Ten Commandments. They only require that I not kill, but the Spirit of God in me inspires me to love, to bless, to do good, and to pray for my enemy. The Ten Commandments only require that I not committ physical adultery, whereas the Spirit of Christ in me leads me to not even look upon a woman to lust after her. The Ten Commandments only require that I not covet my neighbors, wife, house, land or things, but the Spirit of Christ compels me to bear my neighbors burdens and so fulfill the Law of Christ. I have not been tempted lately to carve any images, but that is not sufficient for the Spirit of God within me pricks my heart at the least hint of pride in myself or my own righteousness. The Ten commandments only require that I honor the Sabbath - that one day of the week, every 7th day. Isaiah tells us how to honor it by not going our own way, not doing what we please, not speaking idle words, and calling it honorable. Wow that leaves me six other days to do these things. For according to the Ten Commandments - then all the other days I can speak idle words, do what I please, and go my own way. How ridiculous. The Spirit of Christ in me causes me to live every day so as not to allow any idle word come forth out of my mouth at anytime for any reason, and to deny myself daily and take up my cross every day, not just every 7th. Just what do you think you are trying to accomplish by this dialogue. The Law of Christ is far higher, far purer, far deeper than the Ten Commandments - therefore by living according to the Law of Christ the Ten Commandments are far surpassed. The Pharisees were careful to keep the Ten Commandments - and yet our Lord told the crowds "Unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and pharisees you shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven. Doing the will of God involves far more than the Ten Commandments ever required.
The Law was not made for good men, and because of the grace of Christ that has come to me I am a new creature, old things have passed away and all things have become new. The Law could never have done this. The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ has accomplished something far more thorough than observing one day per week could or ever will.
Another consideration. You are not dealing honestly with scripture when you try to insert "the ceremonial aspects of the Law" into the all the New Testament references where the Law is used. For example, II Corinthians 3 - try making Paul's choice of words - "But the ministry of death written and engraven in stones" to be the ceremonial aspects of the Law. There were no ceremonial laws engraved on the tablets. So, yes, even the Sahbath was a ministry of death according to Paul. Not my words, but Paul's. The Ten Commandments were a ministry of death, they were the ones engraved on stone and they are also referred to as the ministry of condemnation and fading glory. You can not insert your idea of the ceremonial law into all the passages that speak of the Law being done away with, or the first covenant being done away with by the New Covenant. Hagar is an allegory Paul used for Sinai and Paul said she represents the Covenant of Sinai. The Covenant of Sinai bears children to slavery. Where do get your authority to single out the Ten Commandments from the other decrees of God at Sinai? Can you really honestly read Romans 7, Galatians 3, Hebrews 7-10, and everywhere the term Law is used, make it work by limiting it to the ceremonial aspects while preserving the Ten Commandments. Would you say that it was only the ceremonial aspect of the Law that killed, and not the Ten Commandments because they were full of life. Are you saying it was only the ceremonies that brought condemnation? Are we to believe that the Ten Commandments were good, life giving, but feast like atonement, Tabernacles, Pentecost all brought death and condemnation. Are we to believe that it was decrees about diet, cleanliness, justice, sacrifice, and offering that brought condemnation, whereas those eternal Ten Commandments never were the death or condemnation of anyone?
Your attempts to divide the ceremonial requirements from the Ten Commandments will not hold up to careful scrutiny. The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ not only fulfills the Ten Commandments, but so far surpasses them in glory that the former is not even worth comparing.

makrothumia


_________________
Alan and Dina Martin

 2007/10/4 15:03Profile
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 612
Texas

 Re:

Just in case I did not specifically answer your question regarding David and myself, allow me to say I have seen something far greater than David ever saw. I have seen the temple of living stones being built, I have seen the glory of God in the face of Christ. I have received the very Spirit of God come to indwell me, and make me a man of peace rather than a man of blood like David was. I have seen God's enemies becoming God friend's through the redemption in Jesus Christ. David slew God's enemies - I see God saving them in Christ Jesus. I hope you get my point. David lost four sons to death, in judgment for his adulterous, murderous heart. My children are all serving the Lord under the influence and power of the Spirit of God that David's children did not have. I have received something greater than David. I have been given fullness in Christ. The Spirit Christ has sent to dwell in me is making known to me everything that Jesus has, and Jesus has all that the Father has. John the Baptist was greater than David, and yet the least in the kingdom is greater than John. Wouldn't that put me in a place that David would be envious of? I think so.

Makrothumia


_________________
Alan and Dina Martin

 2007/10/4 15:27Profile









 Re:

Dear brother,

Quote: ""Wow that leaves me six other days to do these things. For according to the Ten Commandments - then all the other days I can speak idle words, do what I please, and go my own way. How ridiculous.""
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Dear Brother, Come on. I will not even comment on this. But I will say this.

because you do not keep the seventh day as a holy day, Is it right of me to think that you think idle words and do what You please all week long? I think not. Why do are you inplying this about those who keep the sabbath Holy?

This is what the commandments says,

Exodus 20:8-11 " Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Please do not twist the Scriptures and make us look like we are a one day christian. We have to walk with Christ everyday of the week but the seventh we shall not do any work. That is what the commandment says.

 2007/10/4 19:24









 Re:

Quote:"""and to deny myself daily and take up my cross every day, not just every 7th. Just what do you think you are trying to accomplish by this dialogue."""

I agree with you brother, but I only carry my cross for six days, on the seventh I carry no cross, that is why it is called the sabbath rest.
It is a blessing, I do no work, I do no worry, I just Rest.

You asked me what I am trying to accomplish with this dialogue?

I am making public what I believe, the same way that you are making public what you believe. Or do you think you are the only one with a voice?
I also want to make public the fact that the Sabbath is a blessing not a burden, and as you mentioned yourself from Isaiah, I want part on the blessings that will come upon those who keeping theselves from defiling God's Holy day.

 2007/10/4 19:25









 Re:

Quote:"""The Pharisees were careful to keep the Ten Commandments - and yet our Lord told the crowds "Unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and pharisees you shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven."""

Where in your bible did you find Jesus saying that the Scribes and pharisees kept the Ten commandment?

Jesus said that they they kept man made laws. and He even said that they broke the law of moses.

This is what Jesus said: Mark 7:6-13 He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. 7 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' 8 "For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men -- the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do." 9 He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 "For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.' 11 "But you say, 'If a man says to his father or mother, "Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban" -- ' (that is, a gift to God), 12 "then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 "making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do."


Please show me where Jesus said that they kept the Ten commandments and that He rebuked them for that?


Matthew 5:17-20 " Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 "For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

 2007/10/4 19:32





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