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jamccor
Member



Joined: 2006/1/5
Posts: 263
New Jersey

 The Occult

I have a question
In listening to a Ray Comfort audio on the occult, he mentions ways in which we can prevent the enemy from getting a foothold on us,He mentions peace signs or symbols as a bad thing,heavy metal records (which I have seen enough threads on here about).Does everyone agree on this? Should these steps be taken to keep the bad spirits from having a foothold in my life?


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John

 2007/9/24 14:41Profile
Lotis
Member



Joined: 2006/9/26
Posts: 84


 Re: The Occult

Personally, I would say yes. Though Jesus is more than able to keep us safe, we must be wise with the things we allow in our homes. Better safe than sorry I suppose.


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John

 2007/9/24 15:55Profile









 Re: The Occult


Hi bro,

Quote:
Should these steps be taken to keep the bad spirits from having a foothold in my life?

There is, in the Old Testament extensive definition given to God's abhorrence of many activities which He does not tolerate and from which Christians [u]must[/u] refrain. This is your starting point. I don't believe any of these are negotiable for those who want to see God.

In the New Testament, 'keep yourself' appears in different contexts but always there is responsibility placed on the believer to [u]co[/u]-operate with God. The power is on His side to do what we cannot. But He does not over-rule our flesh [i]for[/i] us. (Sorcery, witchcraft etc are sins of the flesh, Gal 5:20.) Words
like 'mortify' are active verbs which we are expected to practise.

Acts 15:29
that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.

1 Timothy 5:22
Do not lay hands on anyone hastily, nor share in other people's sins; keep yourself pure.

1 John 5:21
Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Jude 1:21
keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Lastly 1 Peter 1:3 - 8 gives the eternal context.

Blessed [i]be[/i] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven [u]for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time[/u]. In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, [i]being[/i] much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love.



I'm not sure how the Greek reads in this last verse, or other places which refer to the appearance of Jesus Christ, but I always have a sneaking thought that they may refer to Christ being shown to others by our lives, or, appearing in our flesh, or as here, that He will pull away the corruptible, to reveal the incorruptible - the final proof of where we invested the treasure which our hearts were set to obtain.

 2007/9/24 16:55
HomeFree89
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 Re:

Yeah, I agree with Lotis. Jesus is more than able to protect us, but should we open ourselves to demonic forces?

I think Ray tells the story on that tape of a girl that he met that had black out spells and after talking with her he realized that she was possessed by spirits. After casting several demons out she was still having black outs and she had even tried to jump of a balcony, but then he noticed a necklace that she was wearing. It had a fairy on it and he took it off and started hitting it with a hammer and as he did a demon screamed out of her each time.{edit} Remember, she was in a black out, but after the necklace broke she came out of it and if I remember right she later became a Christian. So, I think we need to be careful about what we wear or expose ourselves to.

However, I don't think we need to live in fear, but we need to exercise caution and be willing to get rid of anything the Lord tells us to.

Jordan


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Jordan

 2007/9/24 16:57Profile









 Re: The Occult

jamccor,

The danger lies in giving a thing more meaning or power than it would usually have otherwise.

North Americans have grown up equating the "peace sign" with anti-war demonstrations, "free love", pot-smokers, and hippies. But the power of the sign is not contained within the three lines contained in a circle - they are simply lines within a circle. The power lies within your mind that has been "conditioned" for decades to think "peace", "antiwar", "anti-establishment", "pot-smokers", and/or "hippies" whenever it crops into your view.

When you see a "skull & crossbones" you may think of pirates, swords, treasure, adventure, or maybe the F-14 Tomcats from the U.S.S. Nimitz... but you for sure recognize it as the universal symbol of death.

This is unconscious and unvoluntary. This is why idols were forbidden to the Israelites. The ancients were taught to think critically and practically about circumstances and events, not to react emotionally, and thus unvoluntarily, to signs and symbols. They were taught to fear the unseen and almighty God instead of inanimate pieces of matter.

Signs, symbols, and things have no consciousness of their own...

"What profiteth the graven image that the maker thereof hath graven it; the molten image, and a teacher of lies, that the maker of his work trusteth therein, to make dumb idols? Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach! Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it." (HAB 2:18-19)

...their power comes from your mind and will bowing to an impotent [i]thing[/i].

A cross can become an idol - as I learned during an Anglican service where we were called to kiss the feet of a wooden Christ on a wooden Cross. Those feet weren't His feet, or even human feet. They were dead wood, is all.

A salt shaker can become an idol - as I learned last week after accidentally spilling some and casting it over my left shoulder. A friend said, "Hey! Aren't you a Christian? Why are you so superstitious?" Very convicting words from an unbeliever, and so true.

That being said, I believe it prudent to avoid as many slogans, acronyms, signs and symbols within and without the church as one can. A Christian wearing a hoodie with a skull & crossbones on the front (or even just on the tag) is as unbecoming as a woman in a tanktop wearing a cross dangling from her bellybutton ring.

As for the ubiquitous crosses, t-shirts, armbands, bumper-stickers, and other displays of contemporary churchiantity - they can hardly take the place of meditating upon scripture, communing with God in private, and relieving one anothers' burdens.

 2007/9/25 3:59
rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re: The Occult

GREETINGS TO ALL

There will always be a price to be paid for the defacing of the temple of God with graffiti or filling it with the worldly things. Christians minds are filled with things of the spirit and not of the flesh. What thing crafted with hands is not a idol to someone somewhere. Things are for convenience sake only.

KJV Romans 8.
11. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.


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Eddie

 2007/9/25 6:40Profile
Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re: The Occult

Hello jamccor,

Check this message by Keith Daniel:

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=9367&commentView=itemComments]Protection from the power of satan[/url]

 2007/9/25 10:05Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1067
Germany NRW

 Re: The Occult


Did you notice that the peace sign is actually a cross upside down. I makes a mockery of the cross.

Philip

 2007/9/25 13:02Profile









 Re: The Occult


narrowpath asked

Quote:
Did you notice that the peace sign is actually a cross upside down. I makes a mockery of the cross.

I didn't know that's what was being meant by the peace sign! An upside-down cross is also the symbol for human sacrifice - which is the [i]absolute opposite[/i] of Christ laying down [u]His[/u] life [u]for [i]us[/i][/u].

 2007/9/26 9:35









 Re: The Occult





Hi jamccor,

Your original question has been going round in my head. I've wanted to post the answer I know to be true, but it seemed complicated. So, what I want to write here will be as simple as I can make it, but it's not short. If can catch my drift, I believe you have the key to spiritual safety.

I believe Paul's exposition of the effectiveness of Christ's death.

Romans 6 (NKJV)
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be [i]in the likeness[/i] of [i]His[/i] resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with [i]Him,[/i] that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

KJV: 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [i]in the likeness[/i] of [i]his[/i] resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [i]him[/i], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Modern version refer to 'self' rather than 'old man'. (Note, it was 'our' 'old man' who Christ took into His death on behalf of humanity.)

The other thing to note in the KJV is the present tense. 'Our old man [u]is[/u] crucified'. This is a statement which is eternally true, not merely historically true in our time frame as the 'was' of the NKJV appears to imply. This eternal aspect of Christ's death is to the fore again in John's words here:

Revelation 5:6 (KJV)
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood [u]a Lamb as it had been slain[/u], having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

John it was who noted John the Baptist's proclamation: 'Behold the Lamb of God who [u]takes[/u] away the sin of the world.' (John 1:29)

We have always to remember that as we are in Christ, we are in eternity; that is, [i][b]now[/i][/b] we are in eternity, [u]in[/u] that eternal truth of the Lamb just slain, which is the foundation of John's statement in his first epistle, chapter 1:7

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (Note again there is a plural pronoun 'we' just as the old man was 'our's.)


The reason I'm laying all this out, is it is foundational scripture for understanding [i]how[/i] we are kept from the wicked one. What I posted earlier about our co-operation with God is also essential, although the [i]power[/i] is all God's available to us on [i]His[/i] terms.

So.... you asked...

Quote:
to keep the bad spirits from having a foothold in my life?

to which I wanted to reply with an opposite thought, which is that there are [i]two[/i] ways we may have footholds in our lives.

One is, that after we have given our lives to the Christ, the more we press on in the Spirit, the more likely we are to find issues we have never had to deal with but which have always been there as part of us. These may be assumptions we have always made about the way life works, or things we have always done; ways we have always dealt with regularly occurring situations, ways of thinking which have never been challenged by the Spirit of God previously. The enemy immediately wants us to suspect we never knew God in the first place, but this is unlikely to be the case (although it may be), so (I think) it's important to resist the temptation to rake over our whole Christian past. Rather, the place to go is Christ's death and there to reaffirm our commitment to be identified with Him in it on our own behalf. This is where the release comes and new thoughts (etc) can begin to strike our understanding as the Spirit is free to reveal His truth to us. Paul refers to spiritual events like these, as the pulling down of strongholds. Sometimes there is more of a battle than I've described, but the principle is the same, and thus sin [u]does not[/u] have dominion over us.

Young phrases those two verses from Romans 6 like this: 5 For, if we have become planted together to the likeness of his death, [i]so[/i] also we shall be of the rising again; 6 this knowing, that our old man was crucified with [i]him[/i], [u]that the body of the sin may be made useless, for our no longer serving the sin[/u];


The reason I'm labouring this, is that while sin is spiritual, it is outworked by the lusts of the mind of the flesh, [i]by our bodies[/i] and it is here that if there are other spirits involved, we will feel their effects by thoughts and physical inclinations which are counter to what the Holy Spirit is bringing to our spirit, soul and flesh.

In principle then, as we literally stop agreeing with things counter to the Holy Spirit, those inclinations will shrivel up and die.

The New Testament refers to this as 'mortify' or 'put to death'

Romans 8:13
[u]For if[/u] ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but [u]if ye[/u] through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, [u]ye shall live[/u].

and again, as with [i]keeping ourselves[/i], it is [u]we[/u] who do the 'mortify'ing with the Holy Spirit's [i]help[/i]. This is an accurate description of the spiritual dynamic that releases us from our flesh, thus making it impossible for any other 'spirit' to gain a (new) foothold. But, we may find, in the process of addressing such footholds as seem to have been there all our lives, that there is already a spirit involved, whose mindset we seem to have appropriated but never noticed before. :-o I think this is why Paul returns us to the renewing of the spirit of our mind, several times in his letters. (Rom 12:2, Eph 4:23.) This begins with regeneration (Titus 3:5) and impacts everything thereafter ( 2 Cor 4:16).

The other way footholds arise, is by our opening ourselves to spiritual interference through actions we can find (within our limited understanding) no definte reason not to pursue. However, we later discover we were ignorant of a spiritual danger, and immediately stop doing that thing. In these situations, God is gracious to deliver us swiftly (in my experience), knowing we had no idea what we were getting into.

But, therefore, it is spiritually most unwise [u]knowingly[/u] to [i]do[/i] anything which opens up an entrance through sin, for other spirits, by choosing to ignore the clear guidance of scripture. Sins of the flesh are named in Gal 5:19, 20 and Romans 1:28 - 32 and other places in the New Testament, and are all associated with idolatry - opposite to worshiping God - and also are clearly laid out in the Old Testament in various places, some of them most explicitly if you read around the lead up to and fall-out from the golden calf in Exodus. These activities, all to be avoided, [u]are[/u] the playground of devils (1 Cor 10:20, 21).

In other words, your [i]protection[/i] from 'bad spirits' is as real as your claim to holiness and righteousness through Christ, who also is made to us wisdom and redemption (1 Cor 1:29 - 31), v 29 'That no flesh should glory in his presence.'

Isa 40:1 - 5
Heb 12:11 - 13


 2007/9/26 10:55





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