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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Is your Worship merely noise?

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 Re:

Hi Danielle....I have sent out the last two quotes from you to my e-mail group at my church, including your own comments on the last one. I then added my own comment which was as follows...........

One second in the presence of God is instantly addictive. As someone who was addicted to alcohol, drugs, cigarettes, sex and food, Gods presence blows everything out of the water. It is because of His presence I forgive my fellow man. It is because of His presence that I love when I am hated. It is because of His presence that I gladly suffer trials and tribulations. If it was just His word, then it would be an enduring philosophy that would still tower above all other human philosophies, but it would ultimately fail because of the weakness of my flesh and the limitations of my spirit. If it was just the word of God it would be by my might and by my power which is finite, but it is not by my might nor by my power but it is by His Spirit whom He has revealed to me experientially. We must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. How do I teach another that? I cannot. I cannot teach a man how an apple tastes. It is only by tasting himself that he will know. Lord may we have apple tasting worship.........................Frank


 2007/9/27 15:45
BrokenOne
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Joined: 2007/6/7
Posts: 429
Baton Rouge, Louisiana

 Re:

Hi Frank,

Sounds like we have a similar testimony. I was also an addict before Christ. I know the all consuming power of addiction. How the whole life revolves around the next fix. Nothing else matters, does it? We let nothing stand in our way or hinder us from pursuing every wicked desire of our flesh. We risk reputation, loss of relationships, financial ruin, arrest….there is no end to what dangers we endured to satisfy our addictions.

But how is it Frank, that after such a glorious salvation and deliverance from the works of darkness, I can find it so difficult to pursue my Lord with the same abandon? This ought not be. The very writing of this makes me so ashamed that I have not pursued Him more fully.

Danielle


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Danielle

 2007/9/27 20:00Profile









 Re:

HI Danielle....yes similiar testimonies, same Savior too :) If you go to http://appolus.blogspot.com you will find more of my writings that touch on the very point you made. Especially read "We are the Temple," and "Intimacy) Here is a quote from "We are the Temple"
In the Old Testament, God poured out fire from heaven and we were touched by His presence. Two thousand years ago, He sent an all consuming fire to walk the earth. And although our Lord Jesus returned to His rightful place at the right hand of our Heavenly Father, the fire of our life came and dwelt in the very midst of our new hearts. If we will take the fire of our hearts and cover it with the lens of the Holy Spirit, then the fire will be magnified and we will send up a beam of light that searches the heavens. And our heavenly Father says this, "I will be found by those who search for me."............Frank

 2007/9/27 21:44
BrokenOne
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Joined: 2007/6/7
Posts: 429
Baton Rouge, Louisiana

 Re:

Brother, I also copied this from "We are the Temple" on your site:

"Let us ask ourselves this question, do we pursue the riches and the glories of heaven with the same vigor and single-mindedness that men here on earth pursue gold and silver? And the treasures that we have attained in Christ, do we protect them with all the resources that we have? Do we value the treasures of our heart in the same way men value their wealth? There is a direct correlation between how much we value something to the lengths we will go to protect it. Guard your hearts brothers and sisters in Christ, for we have an enemy who seeks to steal and destroy what we have. Satan knows the value of what we have oftentimes more than we do."

My thoughts: Yes, let us ask ourselves these questions. I wonder if the problem lies in the fact that we cannot see these spiritual riches. Could it be that we don’t value these things as highly as we should because we just don’t keep the awareness of them in our consciousness? And our worship – is it similarly lacking because we cannot see the object of our worship with our physical eyes and because we don’t live in the continual awareness of God’s Presence with us?

Danielle


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Danielle

 2007/9/28 5:25Profile









 Re:

Hi Danielle....There are two distinct realities. There is the reality of this world and there is the reality of the Spiritual. One wars against the other. One is darkness, one is light. The reality of this world is instantly accesible. When you open your eyes in the morning your are "in the world." You can see it, touch it, smell it and hear it. Gods reality is a hidden treasure. Men try to change themselves with the reality of this world because most times that is all they know. This world cannot change your core being. Its the other reality that does that.

I liken it to the detector you have to go through at the airport. There is two detectors, one of them you only have to take of your shoes and belt and perhaps take the loose change out of your pockets, inconvienent but ok. How many people would go through a detector if you had to get naked? This is the only way to enter thr throne room. You stand naked before God. At best, this is uncomfortable. So people try various ways to avoid this, it cannot be avoided. Then people try and fix themselves before entering, this cannot be done either. This is why we have to "humble ourselves, in the sight of the Lord, and He will raise us up." Sanctification is a throne room experience. It is achieved the same way that our justification or our salvation happened, by nothing that we do. "Of fooilsh Galatians, who has bewitched you? Will you now finish in the flesh what you started in the Spirit?" So, noisy worship is most times second best. It is mostly trying to "work," for your sanctification. Yet, we have to come just as we are, warts and all. There is a direct correlation to the grace you experience to the level of transparency that you have before God. And here is a news flash to all of us .......He knows everything anyway :) Yet, like Adam and Eve a lot of us are still hiding from Him. So, when in Reveleation Jesus is "Knocking on the door," then this is akin to God in the garden saying "where are you ?" Only this time it is more tragic because, despite our nakedness, we are covered by the Blood.....................Frank

 2007/9/28 8:50
BrokenOne
Member



Joined: 2007/6/7
Posts: 429
Baton Rouge, Louisiana

 Re:

Quote:
There are two distinct realities. There is the reality of this world and there is the reality of the Spiritual.



Yes, two realities – an earthly and a heavenly. We seem to live our lives so woefully unaware of the heavenly reality; that there is a whole other realm, full of glorious activity. We receive an answered prayer from heaven and dismiss it as coincidence. The Spirit of the Living God speaks to our heart and we assume we just had a good thought. I believe our earthly realm is invaded by heaven much more often that we realize. What intensity of worship, awe and wonder would be produced in us if we could just learn to see with spiritual eyes?

Quote:
Yet, like Adam and Eve a lot of us are still hiding from Him. So, when in Revelation Jesus is "Knocking on the door," then this is akin to God in the garden saying "where are you ?" Only this time it is more tragic because, despite our nakedness, we are covered by the Blood.



What is it in us that cannot just receive what God is offering? Pride, independence, unbelief? He offers us His very Presence, His Own Self, and we shrink back when we should be running with wild abandon to throw ourselves at his feet. Have you ever had one of your kids grab onto your leg and not let go, so that you had to drag them with you when you walked? That is how desperately we need to cling to God. Instead too often we tell Him “I can do it myself”. We live in our spiritual “terrible 2’s” and seem happy to stay there.

Danielle


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Danielle

 2007/9/28 15:37Profile









 Re:

Hi Danielle ....Youe wrote ..

"Yes, two realities – an earthly and a heavenly. We seem to live our lives so woefully unaware of the heavenly reality; that there is a whole other realm, full of glorious activity. We receive an answered prayer from heaven and dismiss it as coincidence. The Spirit of the Living God speaks to our heart and we assume we just had a good thought. I believe our earthly realm is invaded by heaven much more often that we realize. What intensity of worship, awe and wonder would be produced in us if we could just learn to see with spiritual eyes?"

Here is something I wrote that goes along with that, it is entitled "The miracle is in the Timing."


Psalm 46:1 "God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in time of trouble. Verse 5 "God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved; God shall help her at the turning of the morning.

We all know and have heard that God is never late, roughly translated that really means "God, why do you seem to make me wait until the last second?"

In the early and mid-nineteenth century, there came a diverse group of people who came to be known as "higher critics." These people would take a "scientific," look at Scriptures and study it in the "cold light of day." What really happened was that these men attempted to take the "super," out of the supernatural so that they would be left with nothing more than a historical document judged on what could be explained. If it could not be explained, it was rejected as fable. One classic example of this was the crossing of the River Jordan by the Israelites. We all know that God commanded the priests to put their foot into a spring swollen river with the Arc aloft on their shoulders and He told them the river would dry up and thus they could pass over.

Higher critics discovered that some miles up river from the point at which the Israelites crossed, that there had been, at one point, possibly even in that time frame, a massive landslide which would have dammed up the river for a period of time. These Godless men, in their own act of faith, would cry "ah ha, we have our natural explanation." Isn't it amazing that in their zeal to discount a miracle working God that they missed the obvious. The miracle of the timing. Even it if is true that there was a massive landslide up the river that dammed it up, what are the odds that all this took place to perfectly coincide with the priests putting their foot in the water? What about the walls of Jericho? An earthquake? Perhaps. What are the odds of an earthquake occurring at the exact second the Israelites, under exact instructions from God, gave a great shout?

Last year, a handicapped friend of mine, a brother in Christ, was in the midst of an emotional and financial crisis. A few of us got together and decided that we would all chip in some money, it amounted to several hundred dollars. The real problem was going to be how to get the money to him without knowing that it came from us. So we decided that his best friend should take the money over in an envelope and put it in his letterbox. If he happened to be in, there would be no need for an explanation as to why he was there. Well, he was not in and the money was put in the letterbox. Day after day I waited for a call or a reaction from my friend. We believed that this provision from God could perhaps snap him out of his depression. Well, I had several conversations with him, and a couple of breakfasts and nothing. I was quite disappointed that God could bless him and that he would say nothing about it. About three weeks after the money was put in the letterbox, I got a call from my friend. The first thing he asked me was if I knew anything about money in his bookbag, to which I honestly said no. He then went on to explain that the previous night, about four in the morning, he had gotten up and cried out to God. He was in a desperate financial position and told God if He could not do something for Him, then he was lost.

My friend then told me that for a couple of months now, he had not been opening his mail, it was too depressing. He would grab the mail (he walks on crutches) and throw it into his bookbag and not open them. That morning , spurred on by his prayer, he decided to open his mail and face the "bad news." What he got instead was a blessing that blew him away. He just kept saying "Frank, I just prayed the prayer a few hours before and here is this envelope with hundreds of dollars in it." My reply was "praise God :) What really struck me was two elements of the story. His reaching the end of himself and crying out, and the timing. Three weeks earlier would have been too early, that morning(although it can be explained in natural terms) was right on time by the grace and miracle of a loving God.

Several weeks ago my family and I were in St Louis for a weekend getaway. On the Saturday night we decided to go to the Symphony and as we drove there I got a phone call. It was from "Mary," (not her real name) This is a lady that works at one of the Doctors offices I go to. She works behind the desk and is a Christian woman. Her husband does not keep very well and they struggle because of that. Over the years I always visit with her as I check out. We talk about the Lord and what is going on in our lives. I had been in a few weeks before my St Louis weekend and as usual, had asked her how things were. She sighed and told me things were just the same. I tried to encourage her as I always do and made her laugh before I left.

She was now on the phone (she has never called me before) telling me that she was convicted. The last time I was in she told me that things were just the same, well, she said, that was not true. She had been given a washing machine for free , blessed by the Lord, and had not told me about that. The Holy Spirit had convicted her to call and tell me that and put it right. Now, most people in the world would think that this was weird(including my wife) but I perfectly understood, having came under conviction myself many times and knowing how it feels until you do as your told.

When she hung up, the Lord said to me "Frank, I want you to give her $200." I thought, fine, I can do that. When I got back from the weekend, I thought about how I could give her the money without her knowing it was from me. I had a plan, but for whatever reason it did not work out. Well, about four weeks had passed since my weekend and still I had not given her the money. I thought about just walking in there and giving it to her, but in the back of my mind I was not sure how she would receive it, there was every possibility that she would be offended.

Well, my high blood pressure medication ran out. I tried to call in my refill but found out that my six months supply was up and I would now have to visit the Doctor to renew the prescription(something that I usually complain about) My appointment was set for that day at 4.00. I went to the bank and got the money and put it in an envelope. I got there punctually(five minutes early) and "Mary," was not there. I asked the other lady where Mary was and she told me that I must have just missed her as she knocks of at 4.00. My spirit dropped a little but then she came walking out of the back door on her way out. I said hi and asked her if I could talk to her for a minute outside in the hallway. She went out and sat down and I signed in. I went out and joined her. I asked her if she remembered the phone call she made and the conviction that she told me about, she smiled and said "of course." Well, I said to Mary, you will understand me when I tell you that I am under a similar conviction, the Lord wants you to have this , and I handed her the envelope.

She peeked into the envelope and her eyes filled up and she began to cry. She just kept shaking her head. With difficulty she told me that the previous evening, her and her husband had sat at their table and had to decide which bill not to pay. She barely had the gas money that morning to get to work. Her and her husband prayed fervently, for the first time in a long time, about their situation.

She put her head back against the wall and looking upwards told me that she was in no position to even try and refuse this. She was blown away that God had answered her and her husbands prayer so immediately (she did not know that I had messed around for several week) She could not wait to get home and share this with her husband. Higher critics could explain this in the natural, but the supernatural is God talking to His people, directing them and of course, His perfect timing.

Has God told you to do something ? Are you holding back for some reason? Is it possible your holding back the blessing of God? The last two stories all rely upon two things, Gods people following His instruction to the letter, and their complete dependence upon Him. Perhaps you have reached a crisis point today? Will you call upon the Lord who is your refuge and strength and who is a very present help in time of trouble? Do you know that God is in your midst and you shall not be moved? God will help you at the "turning of the morning." This means "at the break of Dawn." You have heard the phrase "things are always darkest just before the dawn," then praise the Lord we serve a God that brings the light into the darkest of situations. No matter what you face today, no matter how dark your situation, there is a God who cares and is working behind the scenes. Cry out to Him today, trust Him today and if the Lord has called you to do something, please do it no matter if it makes sense or not, trust in Him, He is the morning sun that rises in the heart of even the darkest of circumstances. Put your foot in the water with the Lord Jesus elevated above your circumstances and see if your river will not dry up, just test Him and see if He will not make a way where there seems to be no way. .................In the beauty of Holiness....................Frank

 2007/9/28 15:51
BrokenOne
Member



Joined: 2007/6/7
Posts: 429
Baton Rouge, Louisiana

 Re:

Heavenly realities......

Thinking about worship, what it means, what it is…..for me it seems to come back to abiding in Christ and living in the awareness of the indwelling Presence of God. The abiding Presence of the Spirit of Christ with us. This all by itself should motivate us to a life of continual worship. This is an incredible heavenly reality. This is His promise to us:

Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. John 14:23

For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will dwell in them and walk among them. I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 2 Corinthians 6:16

This changes everything, I think, when we really grasp the meaning of it. The Spirit of the Lord Jesus dwelling in us….all the time….

To walk with Him, to hear his voice
To rest contented in His love
To cease this striving in the flesh
And learn to seek those things above

Christ dwells within! A blessed thought
One woefully too oft neglected
But nonetheless it still remains
A living truth to be protected.

Let no man say “Christ is not here
He dwells above the starry host”
I doubt not my sweet Saviour’s nearness
His Presence is my only hope

If my eyes should be enlightened
To see divine realities
What glorious wonder to behold
Jesus my Christ abides in me

Danielle


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Danielle

 2007/9/28 19:49Profile
BrokenOne
Member



Joined: 2007/6/7
Posts: 429
Baton Rouge, Louisiana

 Re:

This morning in church I was sitting in my usual spot (creature of habit that I am). There was a young woman sitting on the row behind me that I hadn’t seen before. That’s not particularly unusual since I attend a large church. I said hello, she said hello. The service started and out of the corner of my eye I noticed a lot of movement so I turned my head a bit and this woman was dancing and raising her hands to God. When the song service was over and we spent a few minutes greeting each other, I turned and we greeted each other again and she had such a big smile on her face. I thought how wonderful to see the joy of God on the face of the saints.

But then when the service was almost over, when the pastor was giving the altar call for salvation, this woman went up there. I found myself thinking, “but she was praising God, she seemed so full of joy. How can this be?” I thought she was worshipping the Lord and she didn’t even know Him.

This has been bothering me all day….and I don’t even know if I can exactly put my finger on why it’s bothering me so much. I guess I expect the lost to act lost, but what do you do when they act saved?


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Danielle

 2007/9/30 19:49Profile
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Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

Quote:

BrokenOne wrote:
This morning in church I was sitting in my usual spot (creature of habit that I am). There was a young woman sitting on the row behind me that I hadn’t seen before. That’s not particularly unusual since I attend a large church. I said hello, she said hello. The service started and out of the corner of my eye I noticed a lot of movement so I turned my head a bit and this woman was dancing and raising her hands to God. When the song service was over and we spent a few minutes greeting each other, I turned and we greeted each other again and she had such a big smile on her face. I thought how wonderful to see the joy of God on the face of the saints.

But then when the service was almost over, when the pastor was giving the altar call for salvation, this woman went up there. I found myself thinking, “but she was praising God, she seemed so full of joy. How can this be?” I thought she was worshipping the Lord and she didn’t even know Him.

This has been bothering me all day….and I don’t even know if I can exactly put my finger on why it’s bothering me so much. I guess I expect the lost to act lost, but what do you do when they act saved?



I feel the same way I have the same questions myself so your not alone. I always get concerned when kindergarten kids go up to get saved and then baptized! Not saying that the Lord can't save a child, but it always bothers me. When adults have a hard time acknowledging their sin, how does a child recognize they need a savior?

John Macarthur has a CD of the month he sends our for free, it is a Q&A about contemporary Christian music. Since the CD is offer is free of charge, i am sure it would be OK to email you the CD?

 2007/9/30 20:06Profile





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