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 Re:

House churching, tho, is about a lot more than buildings. In fact, thats hardly a blip on the radar screen.

Krispy

 2007/9/25 11:54
Rahman
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Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re:



Bro Krisp you wrote;
"House churching, tho, is about a lot more than buildings. In fact, thats hardly a blip on the radar screen."


--- Bro i know this, primarily from reading many of your past posts regarding your motivation in this area :-D ...

You bro, and others as yourself, have "chosen" (pro-active) to assemble in a "house", but i'm talking from the perspective of our/your brethren who'll be "forced" (re-active) into to it ... If you wanna see a "large edifice attending" saint look like a deer caught in headlights, tell them that there's coming a time that they may be worshipping in the home of another saint (Acts 2) because "the big building" will be closed ... What no comfy seats, no big screen tv's, no air conditioning, no robes, no pomp or circumstance? ...

Perhaps those who are house churched now will be used of our Lord to help those who may be forced to ... That is if the "house churched" haven't forgotten that the "institutional churched" are still their brethren ... You know how "separatist" we Christians can be one toward another for one reason or another :-? ---

 2007/9/25 12:27Profile
reformer
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Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

I can understand why many would want to start a home fellowship or just attend one. I too am getting grieved at my church. We are a mega church and just started half of a 11 million dollar project over the next 5 years. Does it bother me, YES, I have stated my point to the leadership and asked for modesty in their decision process. I see it going in a direction that I don't agree with, but I am one man and few of my brothers in the Lord think I am a bit to serious anyways! Maybe I am?

Sorry went on a rabbit trail! There is a danger because of know accountability. Who is watching the fellowships, there must be an overseer. Many can be considered a cult and there is one out there that gives the illusion of a true fellowship, but it is a cult. There was a discussion I started a month ago concerning this "church". Thats the big issue I have, if there was leadership accountability with the fellowships then I probably would be more open minded.

Blessings
Mike

 2007/9/25 17:25Profile
Miccah
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Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

A little history of Miccah and house church

I have been meeting and holding "house church" for a little under 3 years. As a house church, we meet in a very small and intimate setting that allows for us to really dive into each others lives. Accountability is direct. It is hard to not be accountable to eachother since we meet with our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ every week.

Our church consists of multiple house churches that meet in common on Sunday morning for worshiping The Lord. Not one of these is independent of one another, but interconnected. As someone stated here before about their kidney (excuse the butchering of it :) ), all different parts of the body are needed for the body to function properly, and all are equal in the Lords purpose and use.

The Lord moves mightily in both of these settings.

As in [u][b]Acts 2:46[/b][/u]

"So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house..."

We meet in the home together, and in the church as one body of the Church. This is how the Church was "held".


I have personally been invloved in this movement for sometime. [u]I would like to point out that by no means am I against traditional church as most people know it.[/u] I have been lead to do different, but as important for the Lord. Most everyone I know that has moved from a traditional church to a house church has grown expediential in Him. All share, all pray, all get prayed over, all use the giftings and ALL glorify His name.

Personally, I love it. I thank God for opening my eyes to this. One of the better things that I have realized after moving from traditional church to a house church is that it does not "stop" after leaving. The focus on Him continues day in and day out, as it should anywhere, but sometimes gets lost in traditional settings, but not all traditional settings mind you.

Another great aspect about house church is that you can intermingle between the house churches. Doors are always open for everyone. Sometimes we don't hold ours, and go to another house church. All is for His glory.

What a wonderful God we have.

Miccah


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Christiaan

 2007/9/25 18:22Profile
reformer
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Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

Quote:
Accountability is direct. It is hard to not be accountable to eachother since we meet with our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ every week.



i understand that part of accountability, but I am talking more about form of a governing body. James was head of the Jerusalem church, he over saw those that were dispersed abroad. If there was someone teaching a false doctrine, who would hold you or other accountable? Thats my point, I could start a house church and teach what I want, who will who me accountable? If I am the acting pastor of the fellowship, then who do I go to? The Apostle Paul governed all his churches. I believe in having a a doctrinal statement all house fellowships should adhere to, if there is not, then I would be afraid to go to anyones house that acted like an island unto themselves.

Miccah I not saying that this is you, but it is a valid point to make, because anyone can start a church and preach a different Gospel, like Hymenaus and Philetus.

 2007/9/25 19:08Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Who are they accountable to apart from themselves?



Isn't this the case within traditional denominations? They are only accountable within themselves? And isn't the accountability usually only with some distant overseer figure, who pretty much is just called in when things go very sour... and often past being fixed? And they don't traditionally hold one accountable for things such as pride. Only gross outward sins are checked.


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Jimmy H

 2007/9/25 20:21Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

James was head of the Jerusalem church, he over saw those that were dispersed abroad.



While a popular interpretation of who James was, there is no evidence of this in the Scriptures. The New Testament church knew of no other head than Jesus Christ. James was simply a resident apostle at the church in Jerusalem. At one point, he appears to have been the only apostle there. But this does not make him head of it. Jesus alone is the head of the church, both universal and local.


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Jimmy H

 2007/9/25 20:31Profile
KingJimmy
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Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

If there was someone teaching a false doctrine, who would hold you or other accountable? Thats my point, I could start a house church and teach what I want, who will who me accountable?



The entire community of believers! Jesus said if anybody sins, the believer who catches that individual in sin is to go to him in private and rebuke him. If he refuses to listen to this brother, bring two or three others. And if he won't listen to them, let it be known to the church. And if even that won't work... then let him be to the church as a tax collector and sinner!!! THAT is accountability.

Quote:

If I am the acting pastor of the fellowship, then who do I go to?



In New Testament churches, there is never just one pastor in any given church. So this isn't a problem.

Quote:

The Apostle Paul governed all his churches.



Not in the traditional sense as you probably think of it. Paul did oversee the churches that he had relations with. However, these churches were free to accept or reject his oversight. In fact, in 2 Corinthians Paul is in jeopardy of losing his ability to oversee the church, because some other apostles (false ones) have come into the church and have begun to turn the church against Paul. Paul "governed" the churches he had actual relationships with. He modeled Christ to them and gave his input from time to time as was needed.

Quote:

I believe in having a a doctrinal statement all house fellowships should adhere to, if there is not, then I would be afraid to go to anyones house that acted like an island unto themselves.



While there is nothing wrong with having a statement of faith, who says such is a necessary thing? The first century church never developed any sort of official statement of faith. That's not to say there were not essential things that were taught and expected to be believed e.g. Jesus is Lord. But as it is, developing creedal statements of faith hasn't been a safeguard against heresy. In fact, the most "creedal" churches out there today are full of heresy. E.g. The Greek Orthodox, Roman Catholics, PCUSA, Methodist, etc.


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Jimmy H

 2007/9/25 20:47Profile
reformer
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Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

Quote:

KingJimmy wrote:
Quote:

James was head of the Jerusalem church, he over saw those that were dispersed abroad.



While a popular interpretation of who James was, there is no evidence of this in the Scriptures. The New Testament church knew of no other head than Jesus Christ. James was simply a resident apostle at the church in Jerusalem. At one point, he appears to have been the only apostle there. But this does not make him head of it. Jesus alone is the head of the church, both universal and local.



James was a very key figure in Jerusalem: Acts 12:17, 15:13,21:18, Gal.2:9

Also to note it is not proven that James was not a Apostle. He rejected Christ in John 7:5 and later believed in 1 Cor.15:7 He has never been named an apostle, but a close associate. Gal. 1:19

When I said head of the Jerusalem church, I mean that he was a key figure and leader in the church, not a form of Deity. So you are correct when you say that he is not the head of the Church, Jesus Christ is the head. but you are wrong on everything else!! :-)

 2007/9/25 21:22Profile
reformer
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Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

i understand your point you are trying to make Jimmy, i see a big contrast in what we would call "home fellowship" today and what the New Testament church was like. I personally don't have a problem going to a church building as long as it is a biblical run church.

Honestly, i don't know how I got in this thread, but we had this topic months ago and it went know where. Just back and forth, which is good and fine, but I don't have the energy to do it again. :-?

There is a a group that considers themselves the true church in California. they meet in homes and follow the Acts style church. But they are a cult and are filled with hatred. if you are part of any denomination you are going to hell, if you listen to Macarthur, Piper, Ravenhill, Reidhead, Spurgeon, you are going to hell. if you don't forsake your church and commit to their church, you are lost and going to hell. They are beyond radical, they are terrorist. thats one reason why I would be against home fellowships, if it had some structure and sometime of leadership, I would consider it. But you know that is just my opinion and is only worth about 2 cents.

Sorry that I zinged you hard on the Book of James. i hate being right! :-P

BTW. I hope you know I am just teasing!!

 2007/9/25 21:36Profile





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