SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : General Topics : If I speak up am I in rebellion???

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 Next Page )
PosterThread
tinluke
Member



Joined: 2005/4/8
Posts: 220
New England USA

 If I speak up am I in rebellion???

I teach preschool in a Christian School. I absolutely love it, except for one thing. The preschool director is horrible!! Everyone in the church and school knows it too, but it's like the classic children's book "The Emperor's New Clothes." Everyone can see what is wrong, but no one has the courage to say anything. Unfortunatly many good teachers just become discouraged and quit.

To make matters even worse... she is also the pastor's wife and the pastor is the school's administrator which makes him her boss. She treats everyone as hired help and orders people like slaves. She demands that people address her as "Mrs...." even during non-working hours. She is mean, stressed out, and just horrible!! And this is in no way an exageration either!! Her condition is so obvious, that the women of the church hold prayer meetings just for her!! If you asked any of these women they would tell you that she has "heart issues." People in the church go out of their way to be kind to her too. Every Monday morning she has flowers delivered to her with notes saying "happy Monday" and such things. She is always greeted with a hug and smile and "God bless you Mrs..." but she continues on her miserable way.

When I first started working there, I told the Lord that I would just put up with her and get through the day, but the Lord said to me "Yes, and your righteousness is as filthy rags, I have called you to be perfect as I am perfect and to Love her." I pray that the Lord would do a perfect work in me and allow HIS love to flow through me. I could write a book about some of the terrible things she has done, but I'd just be giving way to the enemy. Most people choose to ingore her and talk behind her back, others just quit, but I don't want to do either. I truly want to do what the Lord wants in this situation. God gave me the following verse for her, well not just her, but for me too.

Romans 2;1-4
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance


I guess my question is, do you think speaking up to her is wrong?? Everyone just seems to (pardon the expression) kiss her buttocks, but it seems to keep her bound. I'm not talking about attacking her, but speaking the truth to her!! I appreaciate your prayer and advise.

In HIM,

Tina


_________________
tina

 2007/9/18 19:39Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re: If I speak up am I in rebellion???

This verse is the first thing that came to mind after parying about this.

Romans 12:20 (NKJV)
Therefore“ If your enemy is hungry, feed him;If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”

It sound like this young lady needs a deliverence of some sort. Have you fasted and prayed over this? Have you interceeded?

Also, talking about the truth to someone about their behavior is not judging them, it is explaining a fact of the situation. If you do not feel right talking to her about this, talk to her husband, the pastor. If he skirts the issue or treats you harshly over this, I would wonder about the Christ like discipleship that is present (or not) in this school/place of worship and think if this is hindering or advancing your spiritual growth.

In Christ

Miccah


_________________
Christiaan

 2007/9/18 20:23Profile
reformer
Member



Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re: If I speak up am I in rebellion???

Quote:
Romans 2;1-4



Paul Washer made such a great point about this verse, most people take this out of context he says, but what this is talking about according to him, is that many who Paul(silus) was addressing this too, was to gain some type of influence over another. By clawing themselves to the top. The sermon I heard it from was called "How to get Saved." it towards the end of the sermon. And he talks about another issue that is lacking in churches, is church discipline. Its worth listening to it, even though the theme of the sermon isn't exactly what your facing.

1 Cor 5. talks about how we are to judge those in the church, what business do we have to judge those outside of the church.

Pray, pray, pray then obey
bless you

 2007/9/18 21:04Profile









 Re: If I speak up am I in rebellion???

Quote:
I absolutely love it, except for one thing. The preschool director is horrible!! Everyone in the church and school knows it too, but it's like the classic children's book "The Emperor's New Clothes." Everyone can see what is wrong, but no one has the courage to say anything. Unfortunatly many good teachers just become discouraged and quit.

To make matters even worse... she is also the pastor's wife and the pastor is the school's administrator which makes him her boss.

Hi Tina,

I understand why you've asked this question, and I hear what the Lord has said to you, which I perceive you and others are trying to do. To me, this is your big clue to the way forward.


I have a friend who was a health visitor for many years, whose work took her into schools. She said the quickest way to judge a school (and therefore, how teachers were treating the children when they were not being observed), was to check out the establishment's toilets. (This is not to imply your school is not well-run. Please bear with me while I ramble a little.) To pass, they had to be clean, properly supplied, available at all times, and smelling nice.

She also, on meeting a child who is selfish and mean, goes out of her way to work out of what that child has been deprived, to then give with loving generosity, to make up for those lacks.


So, the thing which [i]first[/i] springs to mind is that old saying: 'if you want to know what a man is like, look at his wife'.

Please think on this.


The Lord sees everything she has been through in her life, and loves her.


I do not offer this as 'a word from the Lord', but rather to alert you to an alternative perspective. A few other thoughts come to mind but I will wait to hear how this one struck you.

 2007/9/19 13:11
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

There are a couple things to consider before speaking up to rebuke someone.

1. Examine yourself, are you the best person to bring this issue to their attention? If you are not the best person, pray and seek out the best person to bring this issue up.

2. Are you blameless in the same areas? If you are not blameless (ie. there is a plank in your eye) you should concentrate on being blameless before attempting to rebuke anyone else.

3. Is your motivation in love? The bible tells us to 'speak the truth in love' there is only one truth, but when it is spoken without love it might as well be a knife in that person's chest. Make sure that you have the proper motivation for rebuking this person.

4. Pray for this person!

5. Share your concern with others (NOT GOSSIP), seek out the wisdom of God in prayer, and seek out the wisdom of others in many advisors. Others may have a different perspective on this situation and be able to bring light on it. You may not know the spiritual needs of the person you are seeking to rebuke, make sure to seek to understand this other person's situation.

6. Do not confront her, ask her how she is doing, build up a dialogue. See if there is anything in her life that has been troubleing her. Ask if you can pray for her... BE A FRIEND! And if she shuns you, then pray about how best to approach her. If she doesn't respond to your personal appeals, then bring witnesses along and confront her again. Then bring up your complaints to the body of Christ. (this is only the case if you have attempted all other routes to resolve the issues at hand).

The worst thing you can do is talk about her behind her back, or approach others in a gossiping way. You also shouldn't go straight to her husband because it would seem like you're going over her head. The best way to approach this is with prayer and concern.

Here's a very good article about the danger of Gossip: http://www.lastdaysministries.org/articles/gossip.html

Hope this helps... I've made the mistake of rebuking someone without meeting any of these criteria, and it was a very painful time for both me and that other person, and a good portion of our church. Please be patient and seek wisdom, and really learn to love this other person.


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/9/19 13:43Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Quote:

iansmith wrote:
The worst thing you can do is talk about her behind her back, or approach others in a gossiping way. You also shouldn't go straight to her husband because it would seem like you're going over her head. The best way to approach this is with prayer and concern.



If she is afraid to speak to this person, and you are suggesting to go to others for deeper revelation, then wouldn't it make sense to talk to the leader of her house and the church?

Talking to others may be precieved as gossip. If you talk directly to her husband, this would defenately not be gossiping. Her husband would have a better path to sepak to her on certain subject then anyone else would have. He already has a door opened for him in this relationship, being her husband and all. And as the leader of the home, it is his responsibility to look out for his wife's spiritual health.

On top of this, he is the pastor or the church. Lets say that it was not his wife that was the issue in the school, but another administrator, would you not take it to the pastor anyways?

I do agree whole heartedly with praying first about this. I would also suggest that you fast as well. Follow what the Lord tells you to do. You will never go wrong with that :)


_________________
Christiaan

 2007/9/19 15:13Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

Miccah,

There is a HUGE difference between discussing someone's spiritual needs and gossiping about that person. But practically, they can look exactly the same... it's all about the heart and motivations.

When I said 'The worst thing you can do' I was specifically talking about this difference (as previously stated in the points listed).

As far as talking to her husband directly or not, I think the most important thing is how she percieves it. From what little I know about female office scuffles (working in a Fortune 50 company for a couple of years) the impression that an action can give is oft times worse than the actual actions.

You may percieve that going to her husband is the best course of action, she may percieve it as an underhanded attack on her and her marriage. It is important that you're not only blameless, but that you're also percieved as blameless, especially if you love the person you're trying to help.

If you don't love them, then to heck with what they may or may not percieve... you get what i'm saying?


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/9/19 15:36Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Quote:

iansmith wrote:
Miccah,

There is a HUGE difference between discussing someone's spiritual needs and gossiping about that person. But practically, they can look exactly the same... it's all about the heart and motivations.

When I said 'The worst thing you can do' I was specifically talking about this difference (as previously stated in the points listed).

As far as talking to her husband directly or not, I think the most important thing is how she percieves it. From what little I know about female office scuffles (working in a Fortune 50 company for a couple of years) the impression that an action can give is oft times worse than the actual actions.

You may percieve that going to her husband is the best course of action, she may percieve it as an underhanded attack on her and her marriage. It is important that you're not only blameless, but that you're also percieved as blameless, especially if you love the person you're trying to help.

If you don't love them, then to heck with what they may or may not percieve... you get what i'm saying?



Completely.

Perception is important, but the truth hurts sometimes, and this will hurt.

I do agree that regardless of how this is approached, it should be approached in love.

Miccah


_________________
Christiaan

 2007/9/19 16:07Profile
tinluke
Member



Joined: 2005/4/8
Posts: 220
New England USA

 Re:

Blessings to each one of you for your thoughful responses. Although you each raised differnt points, I feel like the Lord has brought each one to my attention durning different times of seeking Him.

Docras raised an interesting point about the wife being a reflection of the husband. In the view of many, she runs the show and her husband is a big push over, but I feel like it's much much more than that. I feel like she is spiritualy sick, starving and naked and her husband choses to look the other way! With my eyes I see her as a horrible, yucky person, but through the Lord's eyes, I see a broken, hungry and wounded person who He desired to bring to Himself.

I do not attend the church because there are many things wrong and it is true that the school is not run very well either, but I know the Lord has me and others there who desire nothing more than to lay down our lives for the children that God has entrusted to us.

In HIM,

Tina


_________________
tina

 2007/9/19 16:18Profile









 Re: If I speak up am I in rebellion???


Tina said

Quote:
In the view of many, she runs the show and her husband is a big push over, but I feel like it's much much more than that.

One of the things I realised when I left my husband after nearly ten years, was that I had been lying about our marriage to the church and the world.

I also realised - after having pled with a friend not to divorce his wife - that once reasons for separation override reasons for not separating, the fact is that [i]no-one[/i] apart from the two in question, can have any idea of what went on behind closed doors. Then suddenly, I realised I had nothing to say to anyone who finally had to quit, because I realised that by that stage, explanations are never straightforward if one is being honest about [i]oneself[/i].

I don't mean that this pastor and his wife should give up, but it does sound like there is some sort of dysfunction. Speculation is pointless because the possibilities are endless and range between extremes.


Another observation I would make about women and children, is that childhood trauma is often a trigger for bad behaviour towards children... if that is the way an adult had behaved to the person when they were a child. We all absorb the kind of 'care' we have been given. Some things we deliberately resist, and meanwhile a whole lot of other stuff gets in under our radar!

These are common to us all and the main reason God has to sift us again and again until we begin to 'see' what kind of people we had become.

Quote:
feel like she is spiritualy sick, starving and naked and her husband choses to look the other way!

He has to survive, too.

Quote:
but through the Lord's eyes, I see a broken, hungry and wounded person who He desired to bring to Himself.

As you probably know, I have slightly unusual thoughts about healing, although they are simply to note that Jesus did not make conditions for a person to be healed (apart from believing in Him) and did not ask anyone to follow (take up the cross) until they had been healed.

I believe that as a person finds God answers very specific (intricately detailed to the pin-point) prayer, they meet with His compassion, His love, His health, His life and His faithfulness. Then, Him having shown Himself to be trustworthy, they can begin to reveal their deeper needs and be restored at deeper levels. All this without having been expected to deliver anything to the Lord except their grief and pain.

My experience of being wounded, is that the Lord had allowed numbness to develop when the pain got too old to continue carrying it consciously.

I also realised as I was beginning to feel again, that I was unable to distinguish the causes of my pain. Repentance was meant sincerely enough, but until a certain amount of healing had occurred, I couldn't stop certain sins, and I couldn't repent of them either.

While I realise this may blow some people's theology out of the water, which is based on 'God won't do XXXXX for you, if you haven't done XXXXX to meet His righteous demands' but I didn't find Him so. I found Him willing immediately to do whatever I was finally willing to admit I could not do for myself. Believe me I tried everything except defeat! And that made me angry. Because I was taught not to give up. And I expected I had to have fixed everything before I was fit to appear in God's presence.

I was wrong about a [i]lot[/i] of things.

 2007/9/19 17:10





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy