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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Five Fold Ministry; is it back?

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running2win
Member



Joined: 2007/5/15
Posts: 231
Bowmansville Penssylvania USA

 Re:

DAVID! (psalm1) Praise God brother it's good to see you come up again! I thought you'd gone for good!


_________________
Jeff Mollman

 2007/9/17 17:24Profile









 Re:

Quote:

psalm1 wrote:
HE reigns,
Would you agree that the annointing is closely associated with the prophets?
Have you read in rev. "the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy" ?
It appears to me from the new testiment theme that the prophetic is equally as widespread as the other gifts but maybe the leadership squelches their use?
prophets are seers they see things in the spirit. Then they report. Not under doctrine or understanding. Nor are they explainers. When God speaks to the prophet it is a gimme that it is doctrinally correct.God is always correct.they hear from heaven. That is why they are hated.
.....David



I wouldn't say they are hated, I think men that fear God will test everything. I think true prophecy would cause men to repent, what we see now is not prophecy and remember they should not add or take away from this book. If you haven't heard the prophecy, probably in a few weeks you can find it at the local christian bookstore.

Quote:
When God speaks to the prophet it is a gimme that it is doctrinally correct.



So men are saying new doctrine and it is sound? maybe when it was needed, but now we have the Written Word.

 2007/9/17 17:40
intrcssr83
Member



Joined: 2005/10/28
Posts: 246
Logan City, Queensland, Australia

 Re: Five Fold Ministry; is it back?

If it helps, here are some messages about the spiritual gifts that should shed light on the subject:

[url=http://www.covlifemedia.org/dl_dialog.php?filename=sunday_am/2006_08_06%20Pursuing%20Gods%20Presence%20Kauflin.mp3]Bob Kauflin - Pursuing God's Presence[/url]. Bob is the Worship Pastor at Covenant Life Church (Joshua Harris').

John Piper - Using our Gifts in Proportion to Our Faith: The Gift of Prophecy
[url=http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Sermons/ByDate/2004/186_Using_Our_Gifts_in_Proportion_to_Our_Faith__Part_1/]HTML Transcript[/url]
[url=http://www.desiringgod.org/download.php?file=http://www.desiringgod.org/media/video/2004/20041010_high.mp4]mp4 Video[/url]
[url=http://www.desiringgod.org/download.php?file=http://www.desiringgod.org/media/audio/2004/20041010.mp3]mp3 Audio [/url]

In response to the original question,

11And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.
Ephesians 4:11-16

Read this passage and consider the following:

1. Is there still a need for the equipping (discipleship) of the saints?

2. Has the Body of Christ fully come towards a perfect unity and common understanding of the faith?

3. Is the church - as it is now - susceptible to false teachings, inconsistent doctrine, man-made viewpoints and deceit (both internal and external)?

The answer, especially for those keeping a watchful eye on the wider Body of Christ should be obvious to all three. If we aren't perfectly united in the faith, and the purpose of the gifts as detailed in Romans 12 and 1 Corinthians 12-14 are to bring us to such unity, then how can anyone say these gifts are no longer operative without making a claim that we are perfectly united when we really aren't?

Note: i'm not saying that the Latter-Rain movement and its manifestations are indeed what they claim to be. While there are indeed many excesses, abuses and counterfeits of the gifts in many charismatic/pentecostal churches today, we shouldn't be as quick to throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater.


_________________
Benjamin Valentine

 2007/9/17 18:37Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

reformer, maybe i shouldnt say all are hated maybe some or most.Look at Jesus,john the baptist,paul and joseph they were all hated. Look at all the marters they were hated also. For what? Jesus. Jesus himself said "you will be hated"
I am not sure what you mean about the written word.
People that move in the prophetic see things. They may see something about your life or why someone doesnt get an answer to prayer , Smith wigglesworth moved in this gift regularly.
Thanks, David

 2007/9/17 18:53Profile









 Re:

.
First of all, Reformer, shame on you. Your original question was asked as if you didn't have any experience with the five fold ministry ("Is real or something else? Should I be concerned?") ONLY to jump on the conversation and people who disagreed with you like flies on excrement with ("quiet honestly, I know what I am talking about. I came out of the "charismatic" movement.") I'm slowly learning those who practice trapping people on this board.

Quote:

jimdied2sin wrote:
Amen, let us seek the "old" revealed truth as it is.

In Christ - Jim



David danced before the Lord with all his might. That was the Spirit on him! David also said, "He who sits in the heavens shall laugh."

When they came down out of the upper room, the crowd mocked them saying in Acts 2.13 These men are full of new wine.
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

And finally he added....

Ac 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Jim, this is [edit: part of] the "old" revealed Truth!

Now to the rest of the posters on this... I'm not condoning barking and such. That is not Bible. But we also need to realize that nothing has taken place in the charismatic or charismania movement that has taken God by surprise. We are not to believe every spirit but to try the spirits to see whether they be of God. I'm not saying all that is going on inside churches today is of God but that is more reason for those of us to try the spirits NOT throw the Holy Spirit out too!! Or worse yet to limit the Holy Spirit by telling Him, "You can do this and this but none of that other stuff in the Bible."

Do we not think that when Christ prayed for the Father send the Comforter that He didn't know deception that would take place? And yet He still prayed that the Father send the Comforter. He also knew that there would be those of His children who would throw the baby out with the bath water and yet He still loves each and every one of us who do believe in the gifts of the Spirit and those who don't; so let us take care to how we speak to one another. We are all God's children.

I can't find the Scripture right now but there was a pharisee I think that tried to tell the others, (paraphrased) "If it's not of God; it will come to nothing but if it is of God... don't say anything lest you be found speaking against it."

I think that is excellent advice for those of us today.

 2007/9/17 19:57









 Re:

Quote:

psalm1 wrote:
reformer, maybe i shouldnt say all are hated maybe some or most.Look at Jesus,john the baptist,paul and joseph they were all hated. Look at all the marters they were hated also. For what? Jesus. Jesus himself said "you will be hated"
I am not sure what you mean about the written word.
People that move in the prophetic see things. They may see something about your life or why someone doesnt get an answer to prayer , Smith wigglesworth moved in this gift regularly.
Thanks, David



I think I understand what you are saying now. thanks :-)

What I meant was that the Written Word is good for rebuking, reproof, and edification, that should be enough for to hear from the Lord. i guess I am a little concerned when a person feels that they have some insight on a persons sin life? I wonder if these prophecies people receive, like a book by James Ryle called a Hippo in the Garden, apparently this was a revelation or dream from God. you can look at them at this link:here

if it is genuine and truly from the Lord, i would hope and pray that I would have the heart and eyes to see, if it would be HIS will. One thing I don't want to do is quench the Holy Spirit.

Blessings

 2007/9/17 20:28
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re: Five Fold Ministry; is it back?

Somethings you all may want to read, very interesting.

http://watch.pair.com/rain.html

http://endtimepilgrim.org/dom.htm

 2007/9/17 20:57Profile









 Re:

Quote:
First of all, Reformer, shame on you. Your original question was asked as if you didn't have any experience with the five fold ministry ("Is real or something else? Should I be concerned?") ONLY to jump on the conversation and people who disagreed with you like flies on excrement with ("quiet honestly, I know what I am talking about. I came out of the "charismatic" movement.") I'm slowly learning those who practice trapping people on this board.



If you actually would have read some of the thread you would know that I was defending someone calling me a "fundie"! Actually I came to the knowledge of the Latter Rain movement this weekend. Even though I have been part of this "charismatic" heresy when I first became a "Christian". I have never heard of this movement or some of the individuals in this movement until the other day. I was CONCERNED because one these men, who is part of this movement, came to MY church to speak and thats when I found out about this movement and man, after some research done over the weekend. Because I was a charismatic, doesn't mean I know all the things that go on within this denomination!

Thats YOUR fault if you miss understood this thread! If you would have read it you would have known.

Quote:
"Is real or something else? Should I be concerned?")



Yes I wanted to know if anyone believed in this or if they didn't. "IS IT REAL?" Yes, I wanted to know , because I have heard some men who are GODLY men give a prophetic insight into something, but it always lined up with SCRIPTURE! I wanted to know if others experienced anything about this. Being a Southern Baptist church, it was a little shocking to have him speak! There has been several that seem to believe this and some don't. that is fine. I can't speak for others that want to expound more in depth of there convictions.

If you are going to get so offended by any thread, i suggest that you not post or reply, because there are many men and woman who are far smarter and knowledgeable of the Word than I am on SI. And they are BOLD as lions and will confront and rebuke. And I appreciate and respect that a great deal. Thats why I come on SI, for the encourage, rebuke and correction. I have learned a lot from members who I don't see eye to eye.

Quote:
so let us take care to how we speak to one another. We are all God's children.



Practice what you preach please, Shame on me, shame on you!

No we are not all Gods children, just because people are on SI, doesn't mean anything,Those who repent and believe on Christ and continue to repent to this day.

BTW

I think the prophecy of Joel has been fulfilled according to Acts 2

Blessings

 2007/9/17 21:27









 Re:

Quote:

pastorfrin wrote:
Somethings you all may want to read, very interesting.

http://watch.pair.com/rain.html

http://endtimepilgrim.org/dom.htm



Thanks Pastorfrin it is very insightful.

 2007/9/17 21:44









 Re:

Quote:
Ac 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.



Context
Acts 2:29-39
"Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 "And so, because he was a prophet, and knew that GOD HAD SWORN TO HIM WITH AN OATH TO SEAT one OF HIS DESCENDANTS UPON HIS THRONE, 31 he looked ahead and [b]spoke of the resurrection of the Christ[/b], that HE WAS NEITHER ABANDONED TO HADES, NOR DID His flesh SUFFER DECAY. 32 "This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. 33 "Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear. 34 "For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says:

'THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD,
"SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
35 UNTIL I MAKE THINE ENEMIES A FOOTSTOOL FOR THY FEET."'
36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified."

37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?" 38 And Peter said to them, "[b]Repent[/b], and let each of you be baptized in the [b]name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit[/b]. 39 "For the [b]promise[/b] is for you and your children, and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God shall call to Himself

Peter isn't referring to the prophecy of Joel in that verse, he was talking about Christ, that this promise(JESUS) is for you and your children and all who are far off.

 2007/9/17 21:58





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