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sdb
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Joined: 2003/7/4
Posts: 129
tucson

 modern day prophets?

Does any one here know of any modern day prophets that are 100% correct in there prophecies---I am speaking of accuracy such as that in the old testament???? what about healing ministries??? interpretation of tongues? words of knowledge???
do we know of any??????

 2003/8/1 0:57Profile
Jason
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Joined: 2003/3/15
Posts: 138


 Re: modern day prophets?

Every true prophet (one who speaks from God) will be accurate. And by this, I mean accurate without exception. Most true prophets, however, are hidden and not in the public eye. This was also often the case in the Old Testament -- even more so in the New Testament.

The truth is that the same Spirit that inspired those prophets to speak without error is the same Spirit in more abundance today. We would do well to recall that the godly, accurate prophets of the Old Testament were rarely highly regarded and even less often actually heeded. The message of the higher-profile court prophets (i.e. the 400 prophets of Baal in Ahab's court) was much more often regarded as the true message. The poor prophets of the Lord always seemed to end up prophesying judgment in the midst of prosperity -- which resulted in them being hated and thought of as false. The same was true of Paul:

2 Corinthians 6:8 "by glory and dishonor, by evil report and good report; regarded as deceivers and yet true;"

It also would be worthy of mention that the "court prophets" were more known for their "soothsaying" and "personal prophecy" than the judgmental and legalistic (Mosaic Law) prophecies of the true prophets. We are looking at the wrong thing if we are expecting prophets to be exhibited in "words of knowledge" (which in today's Church are more psychic readings than the "knowledge" the passage is speaking of) and interpretation of tongues. Notice that the prophecies of the OT prophets are much more legalistic (the more you get to know the Torah, the more you realize they prophesied straight out of it) and less person-specific as a whole. There are indeed personal prophecies, but they are presented as exceptions to the rule -- and are more often than not judgmental in nature.

I wrote a short article on inspiration (biblical and otherwise) some time ago. Perhaps it would be good to post the link.

http://heartsoffireproductions.com/articles/inspired.htm

 2003/8/1 3:44Profile









 Re: modern day prophets?

Quote:

sdb wrote:
Does any one here know of any modern day prophets that are 100% correct in there prophecies---I am speaking of accuracy such as that in the old testament???? what about healing ministries??? interpretation of tongues? words of knowledge???
do we know of any??????



After 30 plus years of observation both inside and outside of charismatic circles I can say I know of no one! To look for such, in my opinion, opens you up to the possibility and likelihood of deception.

Kevin

 2003/8/1 9:48
PJ
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Joined: 2003/7/29
Posts: 76


 Re: modern day prophets?

I think that some of the greatest harm that has come to the church of today is through those who give a 'Thus saith the Lord' when it's really not. I believe that today's man of God must know 100 percent that what he is saying is from the Lord. No I do not know of anyone who is a 100 percent on right now but I think that we must strive to be. To many men making off the wall statements in the name of the Lord are crushing tha faith of many as well as making the modern day church a laughing stock to the world. I am not afraid to be laughed at for the Lord, but I would rather not be laughed at for the bizarre remarks made by many todays so called leading men. This is not directed at Wilkerson, but more so to the TBN type (Hinn, Crouch, ect). However, if Wilkerson has missed it, he needs to do the right thing and admit this, which I think he'd be likely to do if he knew that he missed it.
To many men just utter a strong gut feeling in the name of the Lord. Some speak thinking that because they said it that it will come pass - example - John Kilpatrick predicting the down fall of CRI. He felt so strong that the Lord was on his side that he could make such a statement and it would come to pass. Today's man of God cannot afford to give them selves over to strong gut feeling or powerful emmotions. The 'Thus saith the Lord' that they give must be a 'Thus saith the Lord'.

Jason
Note: I believe that Kilpatrick apologized for his prediction on CRI.

 2003/8/1 12:41Profile
todd
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Joined: 2003/5/12
Posts: 573
California

 Re:

Quote:
"Every true prophet (one who speaks from God) will be accurate. And by this, I mean accurate without exception."

So there's a variety of options here.

1. Wilkerson's is not a "true prophet" (perhaps you think "watchman" is different)

2. Wilkerson is a "true prophet". This being the case, by your own admission, only if he has been accurate without exception. Some other posters from the the "Set The Trumpet..." thread mentioned his apologizing/repenting for his false prophecies if i'm not mistaken. DId this actually happen? If so, he can't be a "true prophet" in the way you describe it.

3. I don't think Wilkerson ever said, "Thus saith the Lord" so perhaps some think that gets him off the hook if his prophetic predictions don't come to pass as he said they would. In that case, has he ever truly prophecied?

 2003/8/1 12:57Profile
Jason
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Joined: 2003/3/15
Posts: 138


 Re:

I have heard a number of people mention Wilkerson apologizing for a "false prophecy." To my knowledge, it is an urban legend because no one can ever remember what it was about or produce one shred of evidence that this took place.

In the article I linked to below, I pointed out that even the Prophets and Apostles of the Bible erred. Peter is an example at Antioch, in which case he was corrected by Paul. The issue is that when these men spoke "as from the Lord," they spoke by the Spirit of God, who is true in all ages -- in those cases, their words were inspired and accurate.

Consider also that Jonah's prophecy did not come to pass in Ninevah -- he put a 40 day window on it and it didn't happen. Ezekiel also points out that prophecy's fulfillment is dependent on the responses of the hearers.

I am in agreement that most of what passes for "prophecy" today is ridiculous and a delusion. We should not be looking for a perfect prophet to follow. We already have one -- Jesus Christ! At the same time, we must understand that when the Spirit of God speaks through a man today, it is in the same power and authority as when he spoke in ancient days.

One other distinction that I think must be made -- a prophet is not one who "knows or tells the future." This "foretelling" is merely one facet of prophecy and is not necessary for a prophet or prophetic message. The far more important (and indeed the thing that makes a prophet a prophet) thing is "forthtelling" -- speaking God's perspective on a situation. This is the main job of a prophet. Unfortunately, because of the foolishness of the charismatic church and the ignorance of cessationists, the common understanding of prophecy has been narrowed to "foretelling." If we look at Scripture, the "foretelling" came as a bi-product of "forthtelling" (i.e. "God is displeased right now and will bring destruction to you") if it came at all. A simple hearing of Wilkerson's message shows that the "forthtelling" is properly in place -- his message is a pure message demanding repentance before a Holy God. This must be the case in all God's prophets.

 2003/8/1 13:13Profile
jeremyhulsey
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Joined: 2003/4/18
Posts: 777


 Re: Clarification

Quote: "Some other posters from the the "Set The Trumpet..." thread mentioned his apologizing/repenting for his false prophecies if i'm not mistaken. DId this actually happen? If so, he can't be a "true prophet" in the way you describe it."

I should have made myself clear at what I ment when I said that David Wilkerson had "missed" God. There is no time when he has appologized for "false" prophecy. As far as I'm concerned he has had no false prophecy in his messages. (this is only my opinion, but since these threads have been based on opinions I feel totally free to throw mine in) I have read the Vision and Set The Trumpet To They Mouth. I am of the opinion that he is right on.

What I was alluding to was the time between the writing of The Vision, and "Trumpet". David talked about a time of letting all the he was seeing in the scriptures get to him and bring him down. It was depressing him. During that time he said that he was difficult to be around. He later wrote many friends who he had hurt during this time to appologize.

As far as the times when he has prophecied he has been correct. But that's just my opinion.

Jeremy Hulsey


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Jeremy Hulsey

 2003/8/1 13:26Profile
Jason
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Joined: 2003/3/15
Posts: 138


 Re:

I too have heard him mention this period in his life when God was dealing with some things. (I actually had made the assumption that the urban legend was based on this as well.) When he has made this apology, he has also always made it clear that he still does stand by the prophecies he made and the messages that he delivered in that time. He believes God took him through that time in part for those messages to be given, but that now God has given him more -- that he has grown. This can be found in part in his book [i]The New Covenant Unveiled[/i], but is found mainly in his preaching or in personal conversation.

 2003/8/1 13:35Profile
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 Re:


[b]posts by ktrek:[/b]

Quote:
After 30 plus years of observation both inside and outside of charismatic circles I can say I know of no one!


I don't necessarily look for prophets when I look at men. I think that there are prophets in the world forsure that are in the hidden places.

Quote:
To look for such, in my opinion, opens you up to the possibility and likelihood of deception.


That's my point also that we shouln't put our trust in men but in God! and a large part of the minsitry of the prophet from God is to bring back a backslidden people to the true knowledge of God. In some ways God is always speaking to his people by his Holy Spirit but sometimes its necessary to have a mouthpiece that speaks against the backslidden conditon of the church. I am not calling Leonard Ravenhill a prophet but he did have a powerful message to the church to repent, and he was faithful with this calling to the end of his life where he died with a 'broken heart' for the church.


[b]post by jason:[/b]
Quote:
The truth is that the same Spirit that inspired those prophets to speak without error is the same Spirit in more abundance today.


Amen, God is still speaking today and revealing his mysteries in Christ to the church.


[b]posts by PJ:[/b]
Quote:
I think that some of the greatest harm that has come to the church of today is through those who give a 'Thus saith the Lord' when it's really not.


Yes, I would totally have to agree, people are so quick to say that there thoughts are divine revelation from God. "The the Lord said to me. 'The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds.'" - Jeremiah 14:14

Quote:
as well as making the modern day church a laughing stock to the world


I really feel that alot of the things that are being done in the name of God these days are mockery of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Gods gospel message will turn the world upside by the power of the Spirit, Gods word does not change, its US that is the problem!


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 2003/8/1 14:16Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
"Some other posters from the the "Set The Trumpet..." thread mentioned his apologizing/repenting for his false prophecies if i'm not mistaken. DId this actually happen? If so, he can't be a "true prophet" in the way you describe it."


Who said wilkerson is a "true prophet"!

1. He has never called himself a prophet.
2. He feels he is called to the ministry of a watchman before God to warn the nation of its sinful backslidding and need to come back to God.
3. He mostly just quotes scriptures and doesn't have extra biblical propechies. I think only a few that are specific.

Quote:
I don't think Wilkerson ever said, "Thus saith the Lord" so perhaps some think that gets him off the hook if his prophetic predictions don't come to pass as he said they would. In that case, has he ever truly prophecied?


I believe so and I do think this does get him off the hook. He has felt led to say things that he thinks is going to happen which is no worse than any of us posting our opionion of the endtime in the polls section!

Quote:
Consider also that Jonah's prophecy did not come to pass in Ninevah -- he put a 40 day window on it and it didn't happen. Ezekiel also points out that prophecy's fulfillment is dependent on the responses of the hearers.


I still believe that alot of things that Wilkerson said in his book: "The Vision" are still going to come to pass, and alot of them have come to pass. He didnt really say that they were a "Thus saith the Lord" but he did say alot of it was in a vision in dreams at night.

Quote:
One other distinction that I think must be made -- a prophet is not one who "knows or tells the future." This "foretelling" is merely one facet of prophecy and is not necessary for a prophet or prophetic message. The far more important (and indeed the thing that makes a prophet a prophet) thing is "forthtelling" -- speaking God's perspective on a situation. This is the main job of a prophet.


Thanks Jason for saying this, this deserves a re-read! so many people can't understand that this is the full role of a prophet!


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 2003/8/1 14:25Profile





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