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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Charles G Finney and Moral Government

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roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Then let us rejoice together!!!


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/9/16 23:36Profile
Nile
Member



Joined: 2007/3/28
Posts: 403
Raleigh, NC

 Re:

Amen!!!
Glory to God!!!


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Matthew Miskiewicz

 2007/9/16 23:40Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re: Charles G Finney and Moral Government

Brother Ron wrote:

Quote:
I want to try to examine the teaching of Charles Finney. In doing so I will exercise the same courtesy as if he were before me. I will not attack his character or his ministry but will contain myself to examining what he has written and what we should understand by it.



I sort of got lost just after this assertion. The title of the essay was given, then you began by inserting your premise on which you started to build without first giving us the actual content of Finney's article.

I myself have only read two sermons by Finney, so I am not familiar with the material your are commenting on in this thread...


just a thought

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/9/17 5:34Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

roaringlamb wrote:

Quote:
Would it be unfair of God to command a small army to fight against one many times stronger like He did with Gideon?

Would it be unjust of God to command Joshua to march around a city, and then the walls would fall down?

Was Jesus mocking the man in the Synagogue when He told Him to stretch forth his hand?

Was Christ immoral when he told the lame man to stand, take up his bed and go home?



The beginning of the process begins with God speaking to the individual. The individual then has the choice to react to what God has spoke. This is the point where faith finds it's beginning.

When God gave instructions to Joshua on how to go about defeating the city of Jericho, it was at this point, where the unfolding of the event began. Now Joshua had previous experience in the ways of God and the faithfulness of His promise. So based on Joshua's past experience, it was not the first time that he was given a task that the world would view as foolishness.

Then we are given another example in the book of Joshua, where the elders met to discuss how next to defeat the city of Ai.... We find that they failed at this task because they had not inquired of God how they should proceed.

So the process begins when God speaks.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/9/17 6:22Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
Then we are given another example in the book of Joshua, where the elders met to discuss how next to defeat the city of Ai.... We find that they failed at this task because they had not inquired of God how they should proceed.



If I remember correctly, it was because of Achan's sin that they were defeated by a much smaller city than Jericho. The point being that they had violated what God had told them, and did not follow His orders, or allow Him to work in His way.


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patrick heaviside

 2007/9/17 11:30Profile
Peacecraft
Member



Joined: 2006/12/8
Posts: 93
USA

 Re:

Quote:
Peacecraft;
Pleas donot only post scripture, give a commentary on why you posted it.
In other words, you did't proove a thing.

Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
This is not saying that God hates some individuals.
Please read in context with the co-text



What is better? Scripture? or my commentary? Sometimes I'd rather allow scripture to speak for itself :) Lol, my ideas are worthless, only God's opinion matters :)

As far as the verse "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." If God didn't hate that individual wouldn't he have used a different word other than hate? I understand the context, but it still says plain and simple, "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." God made some for noble purposes and some for destruction. What makes you think it means something else?


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Laura

 2007/9/17 13:21Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
God made some for noble purposes and some for destruction. What makes you think it means something else?



The overall biblical revelation of the character of God. When certain statements seems to conflict with something we know for certain about God's character then we need to take a closer look. We need to keep reading. We know for a fact that God is not the [i]author[/i] of sin. We know that God does not create men to simply be pawns of rebellion. Men are created with the capacity to respond rightly to God.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/9/17 14:07Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
Men are created with the capacity to respond rightly to God.



Brother Robert as much as I respect you, and have been blessed by much you have posted here, I must disagree.

Here is the head which presents us with two paths, one is Biblical, and one is not. I know you will say your view is Biblical, and I will say mine is and I do not wish to go round and round.

Yet I will ask these two questions-

1)If a man is enslaved in anything, is he free?

2)Did God know the sin that would come into the human race, and make provision for it before the foundation of the world in Christ?



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patrick heaviside

 2007/9/17 14:14Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
1)If a man is enslaved in anything, is he free?



We know from Paul's admonishion to servants that slaves do not by default blindly obey or suffer absolute control of their master's. Men serve as men pleasers and with eye service. In this way I do not believe slavery to sin is even on par with demon possession. Yet even the demoniac Legion was able to come to Christ for mercy and he was full of devils. Legion was not free. But Legion did not suffer absolute subjection to those demons. So freedom is relative, I think. Personally I believe that men are by nature sinners, but that they could also have chosen [u]not[/u] to sin.


Quote:
Did God know the sin that would come into the human race, and make provision for it before the foundation of the world in Christ?



Certainly. Christ was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. I believe also that physical death was made part of the penalty for sin that would ultimately allow for our death to Sin in christ on the Cross. So there was a lot of forethought and planning that went into the creation. What a marvel God's redemptive plan is!


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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/9/17 17:08Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
We know from Paul's admonishion to servants that slaves do not by default blindly obey or suffer absolute control of their master's. Men serve as men pleasers and with eye service. In this way I do not believe slavery to sin is even on par with demon possession. Yet even the demoniac Legion was able to come to Christ for mercy and he was full of devils. Legion was not free. But Legion did not suffer absolute subjection to those demons. So freedom is relative, I think. Personally I believe that men are by nature sinners, but that they could also have chosen not to sin.



What I am getting at is that a man that is enslaved and loves his master(sin) must be set free from it, man does not have the ability to free himself from sin and its enjoyment. This is why many programs like A.A. fail because they are trying to cast out the flesh with the flesh.

I do not understand how a man's will can be enslaved, and yet have folks say it is free?


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patrick heaviside

 2007/9/17 17:34Profile





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