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I used to think that I was too harsh in the way that I approached people who seem to have apostacyzed, but the Lord showed me that it was'nt them that I was being too harsh to, it was the crippling teachings that they were bestowing on others or themselves that I was targeting. I never intentionally want to hurt anyone, but I guess it's like being a soldier on the front line, theres no time to be nice, or tiptoe around the truth, you gotta get your weapon and kill or be killed. The enemy is aiming for your head, and he wants to take you out.
It's hard to be soft when your in a battle. I can remember people saying things to me, that at the time, kinda made me mad, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized what they were saying was true, and even though I felt like it was directed straight at me, it was usually directed to what I was promoting.
There was a time when I was so weak that I could barely stand, because I was so messed up in my mind about was was real.
It took the Lord himself to teach me who I was, and who I was in him. Once I learned this I became solid and strong. Let me carify that I'm only strong in Christ. If I step away from my strength I become as weak as a puppy.
I think God for putting me through the furnace to get me to where I am now.

 2008/1/19 22:05


[b]James 3:1-12[/b]

[i]1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation. 2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body. 3 Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body. 4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth. 5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! 6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. 7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: 8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. 9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. 10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. 11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? 12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.[/i]

The foregoing chapter shows how unprofitable and dead faith is without works. It is plainly intimated by what this chapter first goes upon that such a faith is, however, apt to make men conceited and magisterial in their tempers and their talk. Those who set up faith in the manner the former chapter condemns are most apt to run into those sins of the tongue which this chapter condemns. And indeed the best need to be cautioned against a dictating, censorious, mischievous use of their tongues. We are therefore taught,

I. Not to use our tongues so as to lord it over others: My brethren, be not many masters, &c., v. 1. [u]These words do not forbid doing what we can to direct and instruct others in the way of their duty or to reprove them in a Christian way for what is amiss; but we must not affect to speak and act as those who are continually assuming the chair, we must not prescribe to one another, so as to make our own sentiments a standard by which to try all others, because God gives various gifts to men, and expects from each according to that measure of light which he gives. [/u] "Therefore by not many masters" (or teachers, as some read it); [u]"do not give yourselves the air of teachers, imposers, and judges, but rather speak with the humility and spirit of learners; do not censure one another, as if all must be brought to your standard." [/u]This is enforced by two reasons.

1. Those who thus set up for judges and censurers shall receive the greater condemnation. [u]Our judging others will but make our own judgment the more strict and severe, Matt. vii. 1, 2. Those who are curious to spy out the faults of others, and arrogant in passing censures upon them, may expect that God will be as extreme in marking what they say and do amiss. [/u]

2. Another reason given against such acting the master is because [b]we are all sinners: [/b] In many things we offend all, v. 2. [u]Were we to think more of our own mistakes and offenses, we should be less apt to judge other people. While we are severe against what we count offensive in others, we do not consider how much there is in us which is justly offensive to them. Self-justifiers are commonly self-deceivers. We are all guilty before God; and those who vaunt it over the frailties and infirmities of others little think how many things they offend in themselves. Nay, perhaps their magisterial deportment, and censorious tongues, may prove worse than any faults they condemn in others. Let us learn to be severe in judging ourselves, but charitable in our judgments of other people. [/u]

II. We are taught to govern our tongue so as to prove ourselves perfect and upright men, and such as have an entire government over ourselves: If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body. [u]It is here implied that he whose conscience is affected by tongue-sins, and who takes care tvo avoid them, is an upright man, and has an undoubted sign of true grace. [/u] But, on the other hand, if a man seemeth to be religious (as was declared in the first chapter) and bridleth not his tongue, whatever profession he makes, that man's religion is vain. [u]Further, he that offends not in word will not only prove himself a sincere Christian, but a very much advanced and improved Christian. For the wisdom and grace which enable him to rule his tongue will enable him also to rule all his actions. [/u] This we have illustrated by two comparisons:—

1. The governing and guiding of all the motions of a horse, by the bit which is put into his mouth: Behold, we put bits into the horses' mouths, that they may obey us, and we turn about their whole body, v. 3. There is a great deal of brutish fierceness and wantonness in us. This shows itself very much by the tongue: so that this must be bridled; according to Ps. xxxix. 1, I will keep my mouth with a bridle (or, I will bridle my mouth) while the wicked is before me. The more quick and lively the tongue is, the more should we thus take care to govern it. Otherwise, as an unruly and ungovernable horse runs away with his rider, or throws him, so an unruly tongue will serve those in like manner who have no command over it. [u]Whereas, let resolution and watchfulness, under the influence of the grace of God, bridle the tongue, and then all the motions and actions of the whole body will be easily guided and overruled. [/u]

2. The governing of a ship by the right management of the helm: Behold also the ships, which though they are so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm whithersoever the governor listeth. Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things, v. 4, 5. As the helm is a very small part of the ship, so is the tongue a very small part of the body: but the right governing of the helm or rudder will steer and turn the ship as the governor pleases; and a right management of the tongue is, in a great measure, the government of the whole man. There is a wonderful beauty in these comparisons, to show how things of small bulk may yet be of vast use. [u]And hence we should learn to make the due management of our tongues more our study, because, though they are little members, they are capable of doing a great deal of good or a great deal of hurt. [/u] Therefore,

III. [b]We are taught to dread an unruly tongue as one of the greatest and most pernicious evils. [/b] It is compared to a little fire placed among a great deal of combustible matter, which soon raises a flame and consumes all before it: Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity, &c., v. 5, 6. There is such an abundance of sin in the tongue that it may be called a world of iniquity. How many defilements does it occasion! How many and dreadful flames does it kindle! So is the tongue among the members that it defileth the whole body. Observe hence, There is a great pollution and defilement in sins of the tongue. Defiling passions are kindled, vented, and cherished by this unruly member. And the whole body is often drawn into sin and guilt by the tongue. Therefore Solomon says, Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin, Eccles. v. 6. The snares into which men are sometimes led by the tongue are insufferable to themselves and destructive of others. It setteth on fire the course of nature. The affairs of mankind and of societies are often thrown into confusion, and all is on a flame, by the tongues of men. Some read it, all our generations are set on fire by the tongue. There is no age of the world, nor any condition of life, private or public, but will afford examples of this. And it is set on fire of hell. Observe hence, Hell has more to do in promoting of fire of the tongue than men are generally aware of. It is from some diabolical designs, that men's tongues are inflamed. The devil is expressly called a liar, a murderer, an accuser of the brethren; and, whenever men's tongues are employed in any of these ways, they are set on fire of hell. The Holy Ghost indeed once descended in cloven tongues as of fire, Acts ii. [u]And, where the tongue is thus guided and wrought upon by a fire from heaven, there it kindleth good thoughts, holy affections, and ardent devotions. [/u] But when it is set on fire of hell, as in all undue heats it is, there it is mischievous, producing rage and hatred, and those things which serve the purposes of the devil. [u]As therefore you would dread fires and flames, you should dread contentions, revilings, slanders, lies, and every thing that would kindle the fire of wrath in your own spirit or in the spirits of others. [/u] But,

IV. We are next taught how very difficult a thing it is to govern the tongue: For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed, of mankind. But the tongue can no man tame, v. 7, 8. As if the apostle had said, "Lions, and the most savage beasts, as well as horses and camels, and creatures of the greatest strength, have been tamed and governed by men: so have birds, notwithstanding their wildness and timorousness, and their wings to bear them up continually out of our reach: even serpents, notwithstanding all their venom and all their cunning, have been made familiar and harmless: and things in the sea have been taken by men, and made serviceable to them. And these creatures have not been subdued nor tamed by miracle only (as the lions crouched to Daniel, instead of devouring him, and ravens fed Elijah, and a whale carried Jonah through the depths of the sea to dry land), but what is here spoken of is something commonly done; not only hath been tamed, but is tamed of mankind. [b]Yet the tongue is worse than these, [/b] and cannot be tamed by the power and art which serves to tame these things. [u]No man can tame the tongue without supernatural grace and assistance." [/u] The apostle does not intend to represent it as a thing impossible, but as a thing extremely difficult, [u]which therefore will require great watchfulness, and pains, and prayer, to keep it in due order. [/u] And sometimes all is too little; for it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. Brute creatures may be kept within certain bounds, they may be managed by certain rules, and even serpents may be so used as to do not hurt with all their poison; but the tongue is apt to break through all bounds and rules, and to spit out its poison on one occasion or other, notwithstanding the utmost care. So that not only does it need to be watched, and guarded, and governed, as much as an unruly beast, or a hurtful and poisonous creature, but much more care and pains will be needful to prevent the mischievous outbreakings and effects of the tongue. However,

V. We are taught to think of the use we make of our tongues in religion and in the service of God, and by such a consideration to keep it from cursing, censuring, and every thing that is evil on other occasions: Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, who are made after the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be, v. 9, 10. [u]How absurd is it that those who use their tongues in prayer and praise should ever use them in cursing, slandering, and the like! [/u] [b]If we bless God as our Father, [/b] [u]it should teach us to speak well of, and kindly to, all who bear his image. [/u] That tongue which addresses with reverence the divine Being cannot, without the greatest inconsistency, turn upon fellow-creatures with reviling brawling language. It is said of the seraphim that praise God, they dare not bring a railing accusation. [u]And for men to reproach those who have not only the image of God in their natural faculties, but are renewed after the image of God by the grace of the gospel: this is a most shameful contradiction to all their pretensions of honouring the great Original. [/u] These things ought not so to be; and, if such considerations were always at hand, surely they would not be. [b]Piety is disgraced in all the shows of it, if there be not charity. [/b] That tongue confutes itself which one while pretends to adore the perfections of God, and to refer all things to him, and another while will condemn even good men if they do not just come up to the same words or expressions used by it. Further, to fix this thought, the apostle shows that contrary effects from the same causes are monstrous, and not be found in nature, and therefore cannot be consistent with grace: Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? Can the fig-tree bear olive-berries, or a vine, figs? Or doth the same spring yield both salt water and fresh? v. 11, 12. True religion will not admit of contradictions; and a truly religious man can never allow of them either in his words or his actions. How many sins would this prevent, and recover men from, to put them upon being always consistent with themselves!

17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, [b]without partiality[/b], and without hypocrisy

6. Heavenly wisdom is without partiality. The original word, adiakritos, signifies to be without suspicion, or free from judging, making no undue surmises nor differences in our conduct towards one person more than another. The margin reads it, without wrangling, not acting the part of sectaries, and disputing merely for the sake of a party; nor censuring others purely on account of their differing from us. The wisest men are least apt to be censurers.

-Matthew Henry

[b]Geneva Bible[/b]

[i]It was from reading the Geneva Bible that I realized that James 3 was even talking about judging and slander. So I went and looked up Matthew Henry and found the above treasure chest of insight and wisdom![/i]

Notes on verse 1
• [i]My brethren, be not many masters[/i] – Let no man usurp (as most men ambitiously do) authority to judge and censure others righteously.
• [i]Knowing that we…[/i] - A reason: Because they provoke God’s severity against themselves, which do so curiously and rigorously condemn others, being themselves guilty and faulty.
• [i]…Shall receive greater condemnation[/i] – unless we surcease from this master-like and proud finding fault with others.

Notes on verse 9
• [i]Therewith bless we God even the Father, and therewith curse we men, which are made after…[/i] - Amongst other faults of the tongue, the Apostle chiefly reproveth backbiting and speaking evil of our neighbors, even in them especially which otherwise seem godly and religious.
• [i]Similitude of God[/i] – He denieth by two reasons, that God can be praised by that man, that useth cursed speaking, or to backbite: first because man is the image of God, which, whosoever reverenceth not doth not honor God himself.

Verse 17, “But the wisdom that is from above, is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, [b][u]without judging[/b][/u], and without hypocrisy.”

 2008/3/5 22:26


This morning during qt I was so surprised to find two subjects come together that I have been studying, judging and [url=]slander![/url] I was amazed to read this:

Psalm 50:20 Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother; thou slanderest thine own mother's son.

[2.] Slandering (v. 20): [b]"Thou sittest, and speakest against thy brother, dost basely abuse and misrepresent him, magisterially judge and censure him, and pass sentence upon him, as if you wert his master to whom he must stand or fall,[/b] whereas he is thy brother, as good as thou art, and upon the level with thee, for he is thy own mother's son. He is thy near relation, whom thou oughtest to love, to vindicate, and stand up for, if others abused him; yet thou dost thyself abuse him, whose faults thou oughtest to cover and make the best of; if really he had done amiss, yet thou dost most falsely and unjustly charge him with that which he is innocent of; thou sittest and doest this, as a judge upon the bench, with authority; thou sittest in the seat of the scornful, to deride and backbite those whom thou oughtest to respect and be kind to." Those that do ill themselves commonly delight in speaking ill of others.

-Matthew Henry

To slander someone is to usurp the throne of God in judging and censuring them!

Still learning... :-D

 2008/3/5 22:41


To slander someone is to usurp the throne of God in judging and censuring them!

Oh But thank Martin Luther for those 96 stones he threw, rocking his generation out of the establishment.

I guess it depends on what side one stands as to whether one is considered unloving or judgmental. I'm sure the Catholic Church called him a slanderer censuring them!

All things should be JUDGED against scripture, as Martin Luther did.

We also shouldn't judge those whom God has raised up for these things. That would be judging too.

Judge nothing before it's time when God will
bring to light the hidden things of darkness and will manifest the councils of the Heart.


 2008/3/6 8:54

 Re: God's faithful working in me...


Roniya wrote:

Why do we condemn those with whom we disagree? Why is it so difficult to accept a brother or sister who seems different? Or believes differently? Why can't we love them?

[i]"Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful, disputations." Romans 14:1[/i]

[i]Judge: Forming a negative mental opinion, about someone else who does something you would not do yourself[/i] - God commands us not to do this of our brethren!

[i]"But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God." Romans 14:1-12[/i]

We shall each stand before the Bema Seat of Christ and give account of ourselves. This judging spirit will probably be far more grievous in the eyes of Christ than that which we judged in our brother or sister.

[i]"Take this for a general rule: spend your zeal in those things wherein you and all the people of God are agreed and do not dispute matters that are doubtful." - Matthew Henry

"We make ourselves our brethren's Masters and do in effect usurp the throne of God, when we take upon us thus to judge them, especially to judge their thoughts and intentions, which are out of our view, to judge their persons and state, concerning which it is hard to conclude by those few indications which fall within our cognizance." - Matthew Henry

"In judging and censuring our brethren, we meddle with that which does not belong to us. We have work enough to do at home, and if we must needs be judging, let us exercise our faculty upon our own heart and ways." - Matthew Henry

"Christ is the gain we aim at, living and dying. We live to glorify Him in all the actions and affairs of life...Christ is the centre, in which all the lines of life and death do meet. This is true Christianity which makes Christ all in all." - Matthew Henry

"Now if Christ paid so dearly for His dominion over souls and consciences, and has such a just and undisputed right to exercise dominion, we must not so much as seem to invade it, or entrench upon it, by judging the conscience of our brethren, and arraigning them at our bar." Matthew Henry

"A believing regard to the judgment of the great day would silence all these rash judgments." Matthew Henry

"...He that is strict in judging himself and abasing himself will not be apt to judge and despise his brother." Matthew Henry

"Those are most pleasing to God that are best pleased with Him." Matthew Henry

"Acceptance of God is to be desired and aimed at in the first place, because, sooner or later, God will bring all the world to be of His mind." Matthew Henry[/i]

When you see a brother or sister failing in an area in which God has worked in your life, don't judge them as being failures but rather in humility thank God for what He has done in your life, express grateful praise to Him, then humbly ask Him to work in that brother or sister and lead them in the way of truth. Cause for humility: Why should God reveal a certain truth to you? For what reason are you worthy of all the mercies He has given you? Should it not put us in the dust that God has worked thus in our lives?!!

[i]"Lord, help us always to assume the good in a brother or sister." Prayer of a Christian

"Thou givest thy mouth to evil, and thy tongue frameth deceit. Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother; thou slanderest thine own mother's son. Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright will I shew the salvation of God." Psalm 50:19, 20, 23[/i]

Instead of slandering a brother, offer praise to God for what He is doing in that brother or sister's life. Then God will be glorified. We must leave the perfecting process in God's Hands.

[i]"Thus let us endeavour to make the name of God glorious and renowned. If God seek our good, let us seek His glory. If He make all things tend to our edification, let us make all things tend to His exaltation." Thomas Watson

"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ." Phil. 1:6

"The LORD will perfect that which concerneth me: thy mercy, O LORD, endureth for ever: forsake not the works of thine own hands." Psalm 138:8

"Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen." Jude 24-25[/i]

The above thoughts and quotes come from the Lord's working and revealing these things to me. The Matthew Henry quotes are from his commentary on Romans 14.


A couple weeks ago the Lord was revealing to me a very critical and judgmental spirit in me toward my brothers and sisters in Christ. It just broke me to realize there was such pride in me, and that I would treat my fellow brothers and sisters with such unkindness; even if they do not know of my thoughts about them, it is a grief to the body of Christ that I would do this. And it is a reproach to my Father, because just as He is working in me, so He is working in His other children. And to criticize a brother or sister in Christ is criticizing God's very work in their lives! Oh! To be critical of the working of God, that is so serious. The Lord has been so gracious to me in revealing this to me. With His grace and help I am seeking to love my brothers and sisters and accept them where they're at. How needy I am! And, how I praise God for His perfecting process in not only me but also in my brothers and sisters in the Lord. Praise God for His faithfulness! I would ask my brothers and sisters to pray for me that God would work in me a spirit of love and humility toward the body of Christ. I can testify that He is already doing this, and in revealing these things to me He has been changing my heart.

These last couple weeks as I have prepared and prayed for the upcoming conferences I will be attending God has really been working on me and peeling back the layers and showing me the need in my own life. It is good to set aside times of prayer and self-examination of our own lives as we prepare for the upcoming revival conference. It’s amazing what God reveals to us if we will only humbly come before Him and make ourselves available for the searching light of His Holy Spirit.

I do realize that there is to be a proper spirit of judging in the body of Christ toward sin that is manifested by professing Christians. [url=]This article[/url] is an excellent example on that type of judging. But how often do we overlook these big sins because we fear to offend someone, yet have no difficulty whatsoever nitpicking, slandering, and tearing down the character of a brother or sister who is seeking God? I confess, my natural, fleshly tendency has been to do the latter…but with God’s grace and help I am determined not to do this.

[i]I didn’t undertake this study for the sake of SI, it was for me, and to retain this lesson that God is teaching me that I might review it and not forget His gracious workings. But I wanted to share it here for others who are earnestly seeking God to go deeper with Him and live lives that are pleasing and glorifying to Him.[/i]



Wow, I must say Roniya, I was a little shocked when I read this. I'm sorry if I misjudged you from your article [url=]HERE[/url]. It seems like such a huge contrast but if we combine these two articles I completely agree with you sister. :-)

 2008/3/6 10:08



Heismypeace wrote:

Wow, I must say Roniya, I was a little shocked when I read this. I'm sorry if I misjudged you from your article [url=]HERE[/url]. It seems like such a huge contrast but if we combine these two articles I completely agree with you sister. :-)

Thank you, sister! This is such an encouragement (and relief!) for me to read; I'm so glad to know that we are actually on the same page! In the last couple of days I have been seeing how these two threads really do tie together. God is good to lead us along and teach us these things!

May His peace be with you today, sister, in a very real and tangible way.

With love,

 2008/3/6 10:19


[b]Life is hard for most people[/b]

(J. R. Miller, "Counsel and Help" 1907)

[i]"Be completely humble and gentle; be patient,
bearing with one another in love." Ephesians 4:2[/i]

We should train ourselves to such regard, to such
respect for others, that we shall never hurt the heart
of one of God's creatures, even by a disdainful look!

Our love ought also to be patient. Our neighbor may
have his faults—but we are taught to bear with one
another's infirmities. If we knew the story of men's
lives, the hidden loads and burdens which they are
often carrying, the unhealed sore in their heart—we
would have most gentle patience with them. [b]Life is
hard for most people; certainly hard enough without
our adding to its burdens by our censoriousness, our
unkindness, our jeering and contempt.[/b]

[i]"Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly
loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness,
humility, gentleness and patience." Colossians 3:12[/i]

 2008/3/12 13:47

Joined: 2005/8/9
Posts: 100
montana usa


Roniya quoted

"We should train ourselves to such regard, to such
respect for others, that we shall never hurt the heart
of one of God's creatures, even by a disdainful look!"

This is so good, it reminds me of the quote from Robert C Chapman from the booklet, Agape Leadership.

"To forgive without upbraiding, even by manner or look, is a high exercise of grace-- it is imitation of Christ"

Blessings, bonni


 2008/6/21 20:54Profile

Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA


"To forgive without upbraiding, even by manner or look, is a high exercise of grace-- it is imitation of Christ"

Great quote bonni. Thanks for sharing it.

I'm glad this thread resurfaced. I needed to read it again.

Grace and peace


 2008/6/21 21:07Profile



bonni wrote:

"To forgive without upbraiding, even by manner or look, is a high exercise of grace-- it is imitation of Christ"

Wow, that [i]is[/i] a great quote! Thanks, Bonni, for adding it to this thread!

 2008/6/21 21:11

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