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Discussion Forum : Miracles that follow the plow : God's faithful working in me...

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huggybear555
Member



Joined: 2007/9/27
Posts: 3


 Re:

i strongly agree. i know that when everything is said and done, there you will see the truth. the truth will stand throughout all generations. i think i once read a scripture that david wrote. david said be careful what you might see,because there might be a logical answer for it. and i'm paraphrasing what he wrote. i myself do some strange things, but i can say that they are holyspirit inspired. i'm a human being. i'm not waiting for something to happen,because it is happening right before our eyes. i hope my writing is clear enough.

 2007/9/28 23:46Profile









 Re: God's faithful working in me...

"...And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him,

[b]Follow me.[/b]

Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?

Peter seeing him saith to Jesus,

[b]Lord, and what shall this man do?[/b]

Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come,

[b]what is that to thee?



Follow thou me."[/b]

John 21:19-22

[i]Lord, help me to leave others in Your Hands, and focus on following You. You are able to take care of them and give them the instructions that they need to hear. Help me to be faithful to the instructions You give me to do.[/i]

 2007/11/11 22:27
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: God's faithful working

This ever grounding section ... very much the principle and constant reminder in so many things.

Matthew Henry, a few excerpts;

[i]It seems, by Christ's answer, there was something amiss in the question. When Christ had given him the charge of such a treasure, and the notice of such a trial, it had well become him to have said, “Lord, and what shall I do then to approve myself faithful to such a trust, in such a trial? Lord, increase my faith. As my day is, let my strength be.” But instead of this,

... He seems more concerned for another than for himself. So apt are we to be busy in other men's matters, but negligent in the concerns of our own souls - quick-sighted abroad, but dim-sighted at home - judging others, and prognosticating what they will do, when we have enough to do to prove our own work, and understand our own way.

... we need not ask, “What shall be the lot of those that shall come after us?” Is it not well if peace and truth be in my days? Scripture-predictions must be eyed for the directing of our consciences, not the satisfying of our curiosity.

... Christ's reply to this enquiry (Joh_21:22), “If I will that he tarry till I come, and do not suffer as thou must, what is that to thee. Mind thou thy own duty, the present duty, follow thou me.”

... That he should not die a violent death, like Peter, but should tarry till Christ himself came by a natural death to fetch him to himself. The most credible of the ancient historians tell us that John was the only one of all the twelve that did not actually die a martyr. He was often in jeopardy, in bonds and banishments; but at length died in his bed in a good old age. Note, First, At death Christ comes to us to call us to account; and it concerns us to be ready for his coming. Secondly, Though Christ calls out some of his disciples to resist unto blood, yet not all. Though the crown of martyrdom is bright and glorious, yet the beloved disciple comes short of it.

... Others think that it is only a rebuke to Peter's curiosity, and that his tarrying till Christ's second coming is only the supposition of an absurdity: “Wherefore askest thou after that which is foreign and secret? Suppose I should design that John should never die, what does that concern thee? It is nothing to thee, when or where, or how, John must die. I have told thee how thou must die for thy part; it is enough for thee to know that, Follow thou me.”

Note, It is the will of Christ that his disciples should mind their own present duty, and not be curious in their enquiries about future events, concerning either themselves or others.

... There are many things we are apt to be solicitous about that are nothing to us. Other people's characters are nothing to us; it is out of our line to judge them, Rom_14:4. Whatsoever they are, saith Paul, it makes no matter to me.

Other people's affairs are nothing to us to intermeddle in; we must quietly work, and mind our own business. Many nice and curious questions are put by the scribes and disputers of this world concerning the counsels of God, and the state of the invisible world, concerning which we may say, What is this to us? What do you think will become of such and such? is a common question, which may easily be answered with another: What is that to me? To his own Master he stands or falls. What is it to us to know the times and the seasons? Secret things belong not to us.

... The great thing that is all in all to us is duty, and not event; for duty is ours, events are God's - our own duty, and not another's; for every one shall bear his own burden - our present duty, and not the duty of the time to come; for sufficient to the day shall be the directions thereof: a good man's steps are ordered by the Lord, (Psa_37:23); he is guided step by step.

Now all our duty is summed up in this one of following Christ.

We must attend his motions, and accommodate ourselves to them, follow him to do him honour, as the servant his master; we must walk in the way in which he walked, and aim to be where he is. And, if we will closely attend to the duty of following Christ, we shall find neither heart nor time to meddle with at which does not belong to us.

... The mistake which arose from this saying of Christ, that that disciple should not die, but abide with the church to the end of time; together with the suppressing of this motion by a repetition of Christ's words, Joh_21:23. Observe here,

The easy rise of a mistake in the church by misconstruing the sayings of Christ, and turning a supposition to a position. Because John must not die a martyr, they conclude he must not die at all.

... They were inclined to expect it because they could not choose but desire it. Quod volumus facile crediumus - We easily believe what we wish to be true. For John to abide in the flesh when the rest were gone, and to continue in the world till Christ's second coming, they think, will be a great blessing to the church, which in every age might have recourse to him as an oracle. When they must lose Christ's bodily presence, they hope they shall have that of his beloved disciple; as if that must supply the want of his, forgetting that the blessed Spirit, the Comforter, was to do that.

Note, We are apt to dote too much on men and means, instruments and external helps, and to think we are happy if we may but have them always with us; whereas God will change his workmen, and yet carry on his work, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of men. There is no need of immortal ministers to be the guides of the church, while it is under the conduct of an eternal Spirit.[/i]


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/11/12 10:16Profile









 Re: Gods faithful working

Roniya:

Quote:
Why do we condemn those with whom we disagree? Why is it so difficult to accept a brother or sister who seems different? Or believes differently? Why can't we love them?


This is so amazing as i was not even aware of this thread and just a couple of three days ago PMed someone asking for forgiveness and might we agree to disagree. The reply was beautiful in different ways and that my PM was graciously received.


We will be known by our love for each other.


Thank you for this meaningful thread.

 2007/11/12 10:30









 Re: God's faithful working in me...

[url=http://www.rbc.org/utmost/index.php?month=07&day=30][b]The Teaching of Disillusionment by Oswald Chambers[/url]


[i]Jesus did not commit Himself to them . . . , for He knew what was in man[/i] [/b]
—John 2:24-25


"Disillusionment means having no more misconceptions, false impressions, and false judgments in life; it means being free from these deceptions. However, though no longer deceived, our experience of disillusionment may actually leave us cynical and overly critical in our judgment of others. But the disillusionment that comes from God brings us to the point where we see people as they really are, yet without any cynicism or any stinging and bitter criticism. Many of the things in life that inflict the greatest injury, grief, or pain, stem from the fact that we suffer from illusions. We are not true to one another as facts, seeing each other as we really are; we are only true to our misconceived ideas of one another. According to our thinking, everything is either delightful and good, or it is evil, malicious, and cowardly.

Refusing to be disillusioned is the cause of much of the suffering of human life. And this is how that suffering happens— if we love someone, but do not love God, we demand total perfection and righteousness from that person, and when we do not get it, we become cruel and vindictive; yet we are demanding of a human being, something which he or she cannot possibly give.
There is only one Being who can completely satisfy to the absolute depth of the hurting human heart, and that is the Lord Jesus Christ.
Our Lord is so obviously uncompromising with regard to every human relationship because He knows that every relationship that is not based on faithfulness to Himself, will end in disaster. Our Lord trusted no one, and never placed His faith in people, yet He was never suspicious or bitter.
Our Lord’s confidence in God and in what God’s grace could do for anyone, was so perfect that He never despaired, never giving up hope for any person.
If our trust is placed in human beings, we will end up despairing of everyone."

 2007/11/13 0:11
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Dear sister Joy, thank you for sharing these things. Thank you.




I have done this also.


I was reminded of the passage in 1Timothy which speaks of [b]evil surmisings[/b].




And of the words of the Lord Jesus

"Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me."


- John chapter 8 verses 15-16(KJV)





He could see with perfect clarity. His Father showed Him all things(thinking of John 5:20).



We so often do not see clearly and there are many things not revealed to us. But we act like we see clearly, and know so much. Or we behave so inwardly, in the life of our thoughts. And God sees them all. We must always be fighting to take those thoughts, which are evil, and contrary to the knowledge of Christ, to take them captive.






"And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked."




- Isaiah chapter 11 verses 1-4(KJV)




Instead of smiting our brothers and sisters with the heavy rod of our thoughts, we ought to think with love, and pity, and compassion towards them. Does a man beat down his friends who are already fallen upon the ground? What kind of friendship is that? Who loves a man that is struggling up a mountain by beating him as he goes.



"Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:"


- 1Peter chapter 3 verse 8(KJV)



If God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.




Forgive us Father. Help us.


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/11/17 10:12Profile









 Re:

Thank you, brother Chris, for sharing these things...

Quote:

ChrisJD wrote:

We so often do not see clearly and there are many things not revealed to us. But we act like we see clearly, and know so much. Or we behave so inwardly, in the life of our thoughts. And God sees them all. We must always be fighting to take those thoughts, which are evil, and contrary to the knowledge of Christ, to take them captive.




Yes, brother, yes...the galling pride of our own hearts to [i]presume[/i] that our limited knowledge is sufficient excuse to judge another person,

[i]"We make ourselves our brethren's Masters and do in effect usurp the throne of God, when we take upon us thus to judge them, especially to judge their thoughts and intentions, which are out of our view, to judge their persons and state, concerning which it is hard to conclude by those few indications which fall within our cognizance." - Matthew Henry[/i]


And I may hold my tongue in expressing something unkind or critical of a brother or sister, but oh, if the thought is even there what a grief to God, and compromise it is! We must indeed take [i]every[/i] thought captive...

Quote:

"And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked."



- Isaiah chapter 11 verses 1-4(KJV)




I just read that passage and this little bit stuck out,

[i]And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD:[/i]

In the fear of the Lord...

[i]"Fear is used to express a filial passion. In a good man, the fear of God is a holy awe or reverance of God and His laws, which springs from a just view and real love of the Divine Character, [b]leading the subjects of it to hate and shun everything that can offend such a holy Being,[/b] and inclining them to aim at perfect obedience. This is filial love." - Noah Webster's 1828 dictionary[/i]

[i]Do I have the fear of the Lord in my thoughts? Particularily in how I think of others?[/i]

Quote:
Instead of smiting our brothers and sisters with the heavy rod of our thoughts, we ought to think with love, and pity, and compassion towards them. Does a man beat down his friends who are already fallen upon the ground? What kind of friendship is that? Who loves a man that is struggling up a mountain by beating him as he goes.



Oh, how do we love our brethren? Why are we so quick to tear down instead of build up? Do we have such a light consideration of how the Father looks upon our treatment of His children that we could stoop this low; even if no man knows of those thoughts, God does.



Quote:

Forgive us Father. Help us.



Amen. And put Your holy fear in our hearts.

 2007/11/24 13:34
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

And thanks again for putting us in rememberance of this.



I really appreciate this qoute also


"Fear is used to express a filial passion. In a good man, the fear of God is a holy awe or reverance of God and His laws, which springs from a just view and real love of the Divine Character, leading the subjects of it to hate and shun everything that can offend such a holy Being, and inclining them to aim at perfect obedience. This is filial love." - Noah Webster's 1828 dictionary



This is helpful.



Just now the verse comes to mind of love that says it [i]thinks no evil[/i]. Perhaps instead, wants to think the best of someone, to give them the benefit of the doubt so to speak?


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/11/27 0:47Profile









 Re:

[i]And he entered into a ship, and passed over, and came into his own city. And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.

And Jesus knowing their thoughts said,

[b]Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?[/b]


Matthew 9:1-4[/i]



[i]Excerpt from Matthew Henry's commentary on this passage:[/i]

1. He charged them with it. Though they did but say it within themselves, he knew their thoughts. [b]Note, Our Lord Jesus has the perfect knowledge of all that we say within ourselves. Thoughts are secret and sudden, yet naked and open before Christ, the eternal Word (Heb. iv. 12, 13), and he understands them afar off, Ps. cxxxix.[/b]

2. He could say to them (which no mere man could), Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts? [b]Note, There is a great deal of evil in sinful thoughts, which is very offensive to the Lord Jesus. He being the Sovereign of the heart, sinful thoughts invade his right, and disturb his possession; therefore he takes notice of them, and is much displeased with them. In them lies the root of bitterness, Gen. vi. 5. The sins that begin and end in the heart, and go no further, are as dangerous as any other.[/b]


[i]"There is a great deal of evil in sinful thoughts, which is very offensive to the Lord Jesus."[/i]

 2007/12/4 12:51









 Re:

God continues to work and chip away the unbecoming pieces of censoriousness from me by bringing along articles such as this one:


[b]A CENSORIOUS (CRITICAL/SEVERE) SPIRIT[/b]
By: G. D. Watson

[b]Censoriousness is composed of self-conceit and severity; a self-conceit that we are superior to others, and are entitled to some sort of lordship over them; and then a severity of judging others by the outward letter of righteousness instead of by the Spirit.[/b] There are other people besides Christians who are censorious, but it does not look so conspicuous in their lives, for it is the very nature of religion to make a streak of badness look more ugly. Censoriousness has a special facility of fastening itself on a religious person, and on persons professing a great deal of religion, and its very intensity is in proportion to the intensity of religious zeal, and seems to find its greenest pastures in those who profess the perfection of love. It is a parasite which, like the mistletoe, fastens itself on the tree of religion, and seeks to spread itself until it claims to be the tree and, in fact, if not killed off, will succeed in killing the tree which, indeed, it often does. There seem to be certain weaknesses, and ugly, disagreeable infirmities, latent in the soul that nothing ever develops till it becomes religious, and sometimes the more intense the religion the more glaring are these infirmities.

Censoriousness is not grace, but it assumes the profession of grace, and oftentimes of great sanctity, and it seems to develop in some characters only when they are really under the operations of grace, as an iceberg throws off a heavy fog when it comes near the Gulf Stream. [b]One thing is certain, that many professors of very high grace are very censorious, and they never were very censorious until some time after their declaration of entire yielding to God. Perhaps we can never understand the metaphysics of it, but we know it is [u]a delusion of Satan to get religious people to mistake censoriousness for sanctity.[/b][/u] One of the remedies against it is a clear understanding of what it is.

1. [b]A censorious person sets himself up as a standard of religious experience, or practice, by which to judge all others.[/b] He has almost a boundless confidence in the superiority of his own character. He never admits that he has been backslidden in heart or life; he stoutly defends some ugly things in his disposition or conduct with the plea that they proceeded from the highest righteousness. His anger is clothed with the pretty title of righteous indignation. His stinginess is softened into holy economy. His harsh words are under the sweet cognomen of being true to other people's souls. [b]He lives under the one supreme thought that he came into the world for no other purpose than to set people right.[/b] If he was not always reproving somebody, or pitching into something, he would think himself false to his calling.

His opinion concerning any church, or any association of Christian workers, or any preacher, or evangelist, or writer, or book, is already made up in advance, and labeled like so many bottles of poison on the shelves of his judgment, and he is not going to change his opinion concerning any of these things, and does not want any further light, but knows enough already to settle him in his views. [b]How many thousands of times have we denounced, or severely judged others, not so much because they were displeasing God, but because they were displeasing to us; not because they were in reality breaking the Word of God, but because they were breaking our notions and offending our artificial taste.[/b] Oh, it is a miserable view of life, to turn ourselves into wooden yardsticks, and metallic scales, by which to weigh and measure our fellow Christians, and then to do this under the profession of holiness.

2. [b]A censorious person persuades himself that he has a special religious calling to correct others, and especially to correct them with severe methods, and that this is the greatest proof of his righteousness.[/b] If it were not for the religion that is in the censorious soul, and that it has a special vocation from God, it would lose all its seriousness and be a comical joke; but the censorious man thinks his salvation depends on the vinegar in his nature.

There are two sides to religious self-conceit; one is where the soul mostly contemplates its own superiority; this produces the peacock professor; and the other side is where the soul mostly contemplates the defects of others; this produces the bull dog professor. The censorious man belongs to the latter class, for while spiritual vanity is a part of his make-up, yet spiritual inquisition and severity with others constitutes the major part of his life.

[b]There are many who think that mere power to detect evil is a proof of holiness, and that growth in grace shows itself by an increasing aptness to ferret out the weaknesses and shortcomings of others. [/b]Now, it is a fact that the practice of detecting the defects of others will soon reach a point of almost scientific accuracy.

The world is full of evil, and Christians have many defects, though they be not actually committing sin; and [b]even fully sanctified Christians have weaknesses of manner, and taste, and conversation, and ways of doing things that look to a [u]critical eye as if something bad were behind it,[/u] and the well-practiced eye of a censorious spirit will, in most cases, diagnose a subject with great skill.[/b] When he finds he has hit his game so accurately, it is only another proof to him of his superior holiness. And so he lives on hunting his game, and resembles a hunting dog that is so passionately fond of the chase that he fails to take time to eat, and keeps himself a living skeleton because all his strength is spent in the pursuit of game. Who ever knew a censorious person to be genial in company, or a lover of little children, or sweet and amiable in his private life!

It is said that fortune tellers start out with a knack of reading natural character, and by some practice they soon find that a few general principles- such as a love affair, or some money, or a dark suspicion, or a dream of ambition- apply to most lives, and so they often tell things with amazing accuracy until, in some cases, the devil actually gets them to believe that they are prophets sure enough. [b]So the censorious person practices his gift of ferreting out the evils of others until he loses all his love, mistakes a sharp eye to be a pure heart and, with the help of one of Satan's messengers, comes to think he is an ordained prophet of God, only instead of telling good fortunes he is always telling bad misfortunes. Hence these censorious people, with great calmness of decision, will consign their fellow Christians to hell for any trifling thing that does not agree with them.[/b]

3. A censorious spirit is never fruitful in saving or perfecting souls in grace, and fortunately if it grows on a person it becomes so offensive as not to reproduce its own self, and so often hinders others from becoming censorious. [b]Persons who are gifted with the discerning of spirits are very seldom useful; in fact, never so, except in those cases where they have been crucified so thoroughly as to be utterly humble and loving, as was the case with Bramwell.[/b]

I have met several persons who had an extraordinary gift of discerning people, whose lives were almost utterly fruitless; and I have met a few who, [b]like Bramwell, while having deep discernment, were deeply ballasted with[u] meekness and charity.[/u][/b] But discernment by itself is like a razor in the hands of a lunatic. [u]The sharper the instruments, the greater need of brain in the surgeon that handles them; and power to detect sin needs fathomless humility and boundless love to render it useful.[/u] A censorious man is one who lives in his head instead of his heart. We can never keep our hearts warm except by living in them. A creature that should be nothing but an enormous eye, without a breast or heart, would be a monster; and a censorious person lives in his eye and lets his heart out to freeze. [b]Truth of itself can never bear fruit.

It is only when truth is heated with love that it has the power of reproduction.[/b]

Censorious people think they bear fruit because they make such a stir, and if they can cause others distress, or vexation, or bring on a quarrel, or a sharp debate, or brow-beat some timid soul till he weeps, they think that is fruit.

Fecundity, that is the fountain of fruit bearing, lies in the heart and is destroyed by censoriousness. [b]As a rule, a censorious person has some glaring and serious inconsistency in his own life, and while he represents the path of holiness as very hard to others, he makes it exceedingly easy for himself.[/b]

There is nothing more cheap than a rigorous theology, and nothing more costly than to let our love crucify our judgments, and always run out beyond our discernment. A censorious spirit is a mule in the moral species, an adept at kicking, but having no fecundity.

4. [b]A censorious person is always uneasy at the large-hearted mercy or grace of a holy soul.[/b] He seems distressed lest some people should slip through the gates into Heaven that he thinks ought to go to Hell. Whenever he mentions having mercy or grace for others, he generally prefaces it with, "I believe in charity, but not in sentimentalism, or letting people off too easy." [b]Nothing so shocks a censorious spirit as coming in contact with a great ocean-hearted love that makes allowances for people, and looks on the hopeful side. [/b]There is a sort of mania for religious severity, which is developed by the practice of censoriousness. It is said that butchers, after a while, grow nervous, and morose, and develop a tendency to suicide, from the habitual slaughter of cattle and the sight of so much blood. [b]The case is similar with a censorious person; if he is not tempted to commit literal suicide, he does kill himself spiritually.

Severity, even though accompanied with many gifts and some charitable grace, will soon wear its welcome out, make enemies where there is no need to, cripples weak believers by binding on them artificial burdens, disgusts quiet, sensible people, keeps itself in constant hot water, and then imagines itself a heroic martyr.[/b]

In many cases censorious people at last get broken down and mellowed into a little love just before they die. It is not a rare occurrence that people prophesy the death of some professing Christians by this symptom of mellowness and love that at last breaks through the crust of their harsh lives, and proves that divine grace was strong enough to live hidden in their souls through years of frostiness of disposition. [b]Oh, what a loss, to wake up at last and find that years have been thrown away in censorious, self-righteous fretting over the defects of others, instead of pouring the soul out in a constant stream of humble kindness and fruitful love for others! Even sulphuric acid cannot hurt pure gold, but a censorious spirit will terribly eat away the crown of rewards that is being prepared for many a brow.[/b]

A censorious preacher, in presenting Christ on the cross, will magnify the iron nails far more than the blessed person of Jesus. Some people talk as if there were nothing about crucifixion except the nails, whereas it is the living, loving heart that consents to be nailed, which is the only thing worth our attention. [b]Severe people talk much of crucifixion, but the deepest crucifixion possible on earth is to agree persistently to have our whole nature turned into love. To make a censorious person forever relinquish all his severity toward all people, and at all times, and in all ways, would be the deepest crucifixion and would involve the most painful death to self possible in this life. So, after all, nothing kills us to sin and self but divine love.[/b]


 2008/1/19 17:30





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