| Is the "Spirit of Christ" the Holy Spirit?|
With Bible translators always capitalizing [b]S[/b]pirit, the automatic answer tends to be "yes." But is it? Should it be [b]s[/b]pirit of Christ? I realize of course that the Holy Spirit is His, but is Paul really using the two interchangeably? I am coming to think that the "spirit of Christ" that is in us (Rom.8) is not specifically the Holy Spirit, but generally Christ's living presence in us, distinct from the Holy Spirit and His specific ministries. What think ye?
| 2007/9/10 18:39||Profile|
| Re: Is the "Spirit of Christ" the Holy Spirit?|
The Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit are not the same unless you ask are they God. The answer is yes they are God, As the Father is also. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. One God. Amen.
This is where the Holy Spirit comes from.
John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
This is the promise of Jesus that He would come also. John 14:18-20 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
This is the Spirit of Christ;
Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
We are not crucified with the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is our Teacher, not the Christ that gives new life in His Person.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
This is how we are born again by the Christ in us, which Nichodemus did not understand. Now He speaks plainly; John 14:28-29 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
This is the fulfillment of God's Word:
Colossians 1:25-27 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
It is Christ in you, not the Holy Spirit as Christ, The Holy Spirit teaches us all thing about and in and by all that Christ Jesus says.
The Holy Spirit never speaks of Himself, He only speaks what Christ says and reveals all truth even that which we don't understand:
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Christ did not send Himself as the Holy Spirit.
John 16:4-8 But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you. But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou? But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart. Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
We are shown the things of Christ by the Holy Spirit; John 16:13-14 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Him in us and Us in Him, with the Father, and the Holy Spirit teacher.
John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Who and what is in us? The Love He has, and He Himself. This separates Him in His capacity to give Life and Love from the Holy Spirit Teacher and Sealer of the Christ that is in us.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
The Holy Spirit is the Worker of Truth, Christ's Work is done and He is the Life.
Study John, 14,15,16,17 and you will get a clearer picture what the work of the Holy Spirit is and what the Work of Christ produced on the Cross. "Ye must be born again" The Seed of Christ in us is that birthing. The Holy Spirit is the Truth Worker of that new Life in Christ.
In Christ: Phillip
| 2007/9/10 23:22||Profile|
Phillip, thank you for your reply. Just to clarify my question: I understand the relationship between Christ and the Holy Spirit, their ministries, and how they "fit" into the triune Godhead. But you did directly answer my question in that you believe the "Spirit of Christ" Paul speaks of in Rom. 8 is not the Holy Spirit. Which again brings me to the question, do the translators confuse this issue by capitalizing "Spirit" of Christ, when it would be better understood as "spirit" of Christ...His likeness, etc. Other thoughts?
| 2007/9/10 23:42||Profile|
Yes, it is confusing trying to separate the Spirit of Christ our Life and the Holy Spirit who is the worker Teacher of that Life.
If it is something we have, it is the Spirit of Christ, if it is something being accomplished or worked out in our life, it is the Holy Spirit.
I think the translators did not want to make subservient to The Holy Spirit, to the Spirit of Christ or the other way around. I believe that is why they capitalized the word "pneuma", Spirit. Separating them takes a clear understanding what the work of Christ and the work of the Holy Spirit is all about.
"pneuma" in the spirit of man also and is the soul mind that the Holy Spirit works in and is also the regenerated mind to the Spirit and Mind of Christ, who Himself is our Wisdom, Righteousness, Sanctification and Redemption.
1 Corinthians 1:30-31 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus , who of God is made unto us wisdom , and righteousness , and sanctification , and redemption : That , according as it is written , He that glorieth , let him glory in the Lord .
Who is our Glory? Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the ((((glory)))) of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of ((((glory:))) Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
"His working", has already been accomplished on the Cross, He is our New Creature Life in Christ.
Its working does its work mightily by the Spirit of Christ, led by the Teaching of the Holy Spirit, unto being filled with the Holy Spirit that brings our minds into the Mind of Christ.
In Christ: Phillip
| 2007/9/11 1:15||Profile|
| Re: Is the "Spirit of Christ" the Holy Spirit?|
I saw philologos ask the question in the title of this thread, within another thread, and have been wondering about the answer ever since!
Having no idea how to answer, I'll be reading this thread with interest.
| 2007/9/11 4:00|
| Re: Is the "Spirit of Christ" the Holy Spirit?|
about capitalizing letters....
but i as far as i understand, there are no capitalized letters in the greek,
am i wrong?
it is a difference in the language, i know the muslim "attack" this in our bibles because wester translations put a big "J" in jesus, and a big "G" for god and a small "d" for the devil, when there is no such thing in the original greek.
You scholars must verify this :-) because this is just what i have been told so i am not sure.
| 2007/9/11 4:10||Profile|
| Re: Is the "Spirit of Christ" the Holy Spirit?|
Is the "Spirit of Christ" the Holy Spirit?
As to person, yes. As to emphasis, no.
The titles of God are not random nor are they mere labels. Each one is a revelation of his character. Hence the kind of statement in John 17
[color=0066FF]And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. (John 17:26 KJVS)[/color]
He had revealed the character of God and continues to do so.
The ways that the scriptures speak of God repay our attention. Sometimes the words 'Jesus' and 'Christ' are reversed and there is significance in that; it draws the attention first to the man or the messiah. Are they not the same person? certainly but a different emphasis is coming through.
There is only one Spirit who 'was with you and shall be in you'. He comes to reveal Christ, first to us and then in us. When the scriptures speak of the 'Spirit of Christ' they refer to the one Spirit but are drawing our attention to the character of God as revealed in the man Christ Jesus. The Spirit who makes us Christ-like.
Sometimes the definite article (the) is used in the Greek and sometimes not. Thomas Newberry believed that there was a difference of emphasis here too and then 'spirit' with the article drew attention to the nature of the Spirit, whereas 'the spirit' drew attention to the person of the Spirit.
As regards 'upper and lower case'. There were no upper case letters used in the earliest manuscripts as far as I am aware and no lower case letters used in the early codices. To capitalise the letter is technically moving from translation to interpretation.
| 2007/9/11 6:55||Profile|
As per the Scripture, there is no distinction between the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ--indeed, the two titles (names) are describing the selfsame Spirit of God.
A point well taken is that of philologos regarding the particular title used in any given context. As an example, one would consider the use of the Spirit of Christ as expressed in 1Peter 1:10-11: "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace [that should come] unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."
In view of the subject of salvation, the Holy Spirit is revealed as the very Spirit of Christ ministering in and through the prophets of old, who prophesied of the sufferings of the Messiah, and His subsequent resurrection and glorification. "Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?" (Luke 24:25-26). "These days" were foretold by all the prophets from Samuel and those that followed after by the inspiration of the Spirit of God in them(see Acts 3:24). The Author of Scripture is revealing the continuing work of the Holy Spirit and His identification with Jesus Christ the Son of God from the days of the Old Covenant up through the New Covenant, most notably in the divine plan of redemption. The witness of the Spirit of truth has always been toward Jesus Christ, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, even as to this day His supreme ministry and aim is to testify of and bear witness unto the Eternal Son, bringing glory to the Son and to the Father(see John 15:26-16:15, John 17).
Other scriptures to consider in regard to this particular issue, include: Romans 8:9-11, Acts 16:6-7 (notice the interchangeable nature of "the Holy Spirit" and the "Spirit of Jesus," even as "the Holy Spirit" was used by the author of Acts interchangeably with "God" (Acts 5:3-4)), and Galatians 4:1-7. Each of the above scriptural contexts reveals something unique and wonderful about the Person of the Holy Spirit in His identification with the Lord Jesus Christ.
Bryan W. Hulen
| 2007/9/11 8:07||Profile|
notice the interchangeable nature of "the Holy Spirit" and the "Spirit of Jesus"
is it? at face value, the temptation is to say "of course"...but is it really? Acts 16:7 simply says "the Spirit" not "Spirit of Christ". Reread Rom. 8 and let me know if you are absolutely convicted they are interchangeable. I'm not saying they're not, just asking.
| 2007/9/12 17:55||Profile|
In the KJV, Acts 16:7 does indeed read, "the Spirit." However, in other translations (NASB, NIV, RSV, etc.) the reading is "Spirit of Jesus."
"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his" (Romans 8:9).
In the above verse "the Spirit," "the Spirit of God," and "the Spirit of Christ" are all used to describe the selfsame Holy Spirit Who dwells in the saints of God. There is no question as to this fact, except to those who would manipulate the Scripture to their own ends.
One other place in Scripture worth noting as it pertains to the Spirit of Jesus Christ is Philippians 1:19-21: "For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, according to my earnest expectation and [my] hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but [that] with all boldness, as always, [so] now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether [it be] by life, or by death. For to me to live [is] Christ, and to die [is] gain."
We must also consider the fact that the Holy Spirit is described in sundry manners throughout the Old Testament and the New Testament. He is called "the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD" (Isaiah 11:2), "the Spirit of wisdom" (Deut 34:9), "the Spirit of truth" (John 16:13), "the Spirit of wisdom and revelation" (Ephesians 1:17), "the eternal Spirit" (Hebrews 9:14), and "the Spirit of Jesus Christ" (Philippians 1:19), along with other titles and names.
Each context reveals something of tremendous worth about the nature of the Holy Spirit, and it would be grave error to contend that each of the aforementioned names attributed to the Holy Spirit are describing a different spirit. We must not be unwise, but wise in our understanding of God's word, not wresting the Scriptures to our own detriment.
I must confess, dear brothers and sisters, that while what is written above is doctrinally correct, and not erroneous in letter, there is missing something of import, which if not expressed precludes in what has been written a fuller and more perfect witness of truth. I was hasty in my post, and missed what I believe the Lord would have us all to understand as it pertains to the Spirit of Christ.
The Spirit of Jesus Christ is one with the Son and the Father, He is the Holy Spirit, God the Spirit Almighty, holy and true. In His union with Jesus Christ, the understanding that calls for our deepest meditation is the very fact that without His Presence the experienced reality of Christ in you, the hope of glory, is impossible.
In the original query was raised the thought that the Spirit of Christ as referenced in Scripture is merely referring to the living presence of Christ within His saints, distinct from the Holy Spirit and His ministries. I have been humbled before God in considering the Ultimate Reality of Who He is as the Triune God. The danger of such a suggestion in the original post, and even in what I have written (if not properly understood) is that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit--He is nothing other, and in Him there is no division amongst the eternally distinct and holy and perfect Persons of the Godhead.
Therefore, the Spirit of Christ is indeed the living Presence of Christ in His saints, yet not in distinction and division from the Person of the Holy Spirit, but rather in perfect union with Him, for "the Lord is that Spirit" (2Corinthians 3:17). "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; [even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you...Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." (John 14:16-17, 23).
The marvelous reality of the mystery that is now made manifest to God's saints in the New Covenant is Christ in you, which by necessary and sublime consequence means the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit taking up His residence within the saint as His very temple, where God Almighty records His Name, His chosen place of dwelling (see 1Kings 8:29, 2Kings 21:4, 2Chronicles 7:16, 1Corinthians 3:16, Revelation 22:3-4). The Living God of truth has chosen us, His church, both corporately and individually to be the place wherein He has come to abide, "for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people" (2Corinthians 6:16).
May we, therefore, give homage to the Spirit of Christ as the Eternal Spirit of the Eternal Father and the Eternal Son, bowing down before the feet of the Triune God in love and surrender for His cross that made all of this possible--that the Everlasting God would come to make His abode within mortal men by the Spirit of His Son. For in Jesus Christ "all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit" (Ephesians 2:21-22).
How glorious is that reality, how unspeakable are His ways, how magnificent is the Living Christ--the Way, the Truth, and the Life!
Bryan W. Hulen
| 2007/9/12 19:14||Profile|