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 What is a Freewill?

This is for those of you who DO Believe in freewill. I know that numerous people on these boards do affirm that we have a freewill.

[u][b]What is a freewill?[/b][/u]

I define it this way:

- freewill is [b]the power of contrary choice[/b]: we can choose between good and evil.

- freewill is [b]the power of alternative choice[/b]: we can choose between good and evil.

- freewill is [b]the power of contingent choice[/b]: we are not necessitated one way or another, our choice is contingent.

- freewill is [b]the ability of self-determination[/b]: we ourselves are self-determining agents with the power to determine for ourselves our own moral conduct and condition.

- freewill is [b]the ability to originate moral action[/b]: sin is not something back of the will which forces the will to sin, but sin is a wrong use of freewill, freewill originates good and evil.

 2007/9/9 21:30
Peacecraft
Member



Joined: 2006/12/8
Posts: 93
USA

 Re: What is a Freewill?

Do you have any scriptures to back up freewill? Not just one or two but a solid foundation that clearly supports this idea?


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Laura

 2007/9/9 22:04Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re: What is a Freewill?

Brethren
Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

yes we have free will in that we are participants in the Plan of God however God has predetermined all things according to His Plan to bring Glory to Himself Forever so our free will doesn't escape the confines of that Plan. So it is not a matter of Predestination vs Free will but it is predestination AND Free will together for the Purpose of the Glory of God Forever. our minds think that these 2 our mutually exclusive but they are not in God's Mind. And if we take our seats in the Heavens with God and See from His Perspective, this all makes sense. that we argue back and forth about either/or lets me know, we spend way too much time down here as opposed to in Heaven.

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.


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Farai Bamu

 2007/9/9 23:27Profile
roaringlamb
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Yet if man is a slave, how can he be free?

A slave may have "liberty" to make decisions, but those decisions are still based upon, and limited to the state of slavery within which the man exists.

So there is no such thing as "free will" as all men are bound by their will to do what it says, either to sin, or please God. One is the first state men are born into, and the second is the state produced by the new birth.


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patrick heaviside

 2007/9/10 0:16Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Romans 6:16-23 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


Who delivered the doctrine to us? Who revealed Christ in us. 1 Corinthians 2:10-11 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Who made us free from sin? "But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." God has made us free.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

What can you do for a gift? Receive it.

"Servant"= Bond servant or slave. No choice here. Even if we did have free will.

A slave or bond servant cannot set himself free. Our old master would not set us free, our Master was changed at the Cross.
Who has set us Free? Our victorious New Master. Jhn 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. Now we have indeed free will to serve Him.

I am a Christ-one, a Christian, a son of God. Is this my Choice or Gods?

I did not choose Him, He chose me.

Jhn 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Jhn 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Free will to sin, yes. Free will to be saved, I think not.

In Christ, by His choice from His Cross: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/9/10 1:48Profile
whyme
Member



Joined: 2007/4/3
Posts: 293


 Re: What is a Freewill?

Quote:

Lazarus1719 wrote:
This is for those of you who DO Believe in freewill. I know that numerous people on these boards do affirm that we have a freewill.

[u][b]What is a freewill?[/b][/u]

I define it this way:

- freewill is [b]the power of contrary choice[/b]: we can choose between good and evil.

- freewill is [b]the power of alternative choice[/b]: we can choose between good and evil.

- freewill is [b]the power of contingent choice[/b]: we are not necessitated one way or another, our choice is contingent.

- freewill is [b]the ability of self-determination[/b]: we ourselves are self-determining agents with the power to determine for ourselves our own moral conduct and condition.

- freewill is [b]the ability to originate moral action[/b]: sin is not something back of the will which forces the will to sin, but sin is a wrong use of freewill, freewill originates good and evil.




Brother,

what you have just described is self will. The will is never free apart from God. Adam and Eve thought that they could have free will by eating of the tree of good and evil and thereby choose for themselves instead of God's will choosing for them. That was the fall. The trap is that their will, when not in total submission to God's will, became not free at all but a slave to sin. The spirit they had died and they lost their divine nature altogether.

 2007/9/10 6:27Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4801


 Re:

Whyme wrote:

Quote:
Adam and Eve thought that they could have free will by eating of the tree of good and evil and thereby choose for themselves instead of God's will choosing for them. That was the fall. The trap is that their will, when not in total submission to God's will, became not free at all but a slave to sin



This is not in line with what Scripture teaches...

The very first example given to us after the fall of man teaches this way...

Gen 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:


Gen 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.


Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?


Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee [shall be] his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.


In this section of Scripture we find that God gives both Abel and Cain the knowledge of Him and His will. We find that Abel obeyed and Cain disobeyed.

Then we hear in verse 7 that God exhorts Cain to repent. God also warns Cain the "sin" is at the door and that it is his desire to place Cain in bondage to him.

We know according to Scripture that the final results of the choices that Abel and Cain made determined whose father they served. Abel was a prophet of God and God was His father. Cain chose Satan as his father.

From the very beginning of man we have this testimony in Scripture. Likewise if you read Proverbs chapters 1 through 9 and Romans 1 you will see that God is active in all men's lives to turn them towards Him. And also according to these Scriptures we find that many are "turned over" by God to their destruction.

Christ always cried out...He who has ears let him hear...Christ is pointing to the choice that all are given...the question is who do we submit ourselves too?


In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/9/10 7:15Profile
whyme
Member



Joined: 2007/4/3
Posts: 293


 Re:

Quote:

rookie wrote:
Whyme wrote:

Quote:
Adam and Eve thought that they could have free will by eating of the tree of good and evil and thereby choose for themselves instead of God's will choosing for them. That was the fall. The trap is that their will, when not in total submission to God's will, became not free at all but a slave to sin



This is not in line with what Scripture teaches...

The very first example given to us after the fall of man teaches this way...

Gen 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:


Gen 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.


Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?


Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee [shall be] his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.


In this section of Scripture we find that God gives both Abel and Cain the knowledge of Him and His will. We find that Abel obeyed and Cain disobeyed.

Then we hear in verse 7 that God exhorts Cain to repent. God also warns Cain the "sin" is at the door and that it is his desire to place Cain in bondage to him.

We know according to Scripture that the final results of the choices that Abel and Cain made determined whose father they served. Abel was a prophet of God and God was His father. Cain chose Satan as his father.

From the very beginning of man we have this testimony in Scripture. Likewise if you read Proverbs chapters 1 through 9 and Romans 1 you will see that God is active in all men's lives to turn them towards Him. And also according to these Scriptures we find that many are "turned over" by God to their destruction.

Christ always cried out...He who has ears let him hear...Christ is pointing to the choice that all are given...the question is who do we submit ourselves too?


In Christ
Jeff



Brother Jeff,

The Scriptures are clear that we are slaves to sin apart from Christ. Further, if we are already free, what would the meaning of Scripture be to you when it says we are made free in Christ?

 2007/9/10 7:46Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: What is a Freewill?

Quote:
This is for those of you who DO Believe in freewill.


That's me.


Quote:
- freewill is the ability of self-determination: we ourselves are self-determining agents with the power to determine for ourselves our own moral conduct and condition.

- freewill is the ability to originate moral action: sin is not something back of the will which forces the will to sin, but sin is a wrong use of freewill, freewill originates good and evil.


That's not me!
The first three I have no problems with, the last two founder on your inability to distinguish between sin as a dynamic and sin as an event. You do not seem to be able to recognise that Paul personalises Sin in Romans 5:12 onwards.

There is no explanation in your Finney theology for sin as a power which rules. Yours is simply sin as a transgression. As such, in my judgment, you are right in what you say about sin as a transgression, but woe-fully adrift when it comes to understanding sin as a power.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/9/10 8:55Profile









 Re:

Quote:
We know according to Scripture that the final results of the choices that Abel and Cain made determined whose father they served. Abel was a prophet of God and God was His father. Cain chose Satan as his father.

From the very beginning of man we have this testimony in Scripture. Likewise if you read Proverbs chapters 1 through 9 and Romans 1 you will see that God is active in all men's lives to turn them towards Him. And also according to these Scriptures we find that many are "turned over" by God to their destruction.




This is not a bait question, I am sincerely curious...

With the conclusion that you come to, where does the Gospel come in to play? Why did Chist have to die?

Michael

 2007/9/10 10:58





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