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 Who can turn Him from performing the thing that is appointed for you?

Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

1. Who is the Thou and why does he say this?
2. What does it mean by "His will"?
3. Who has resisted His will?

The Geneva Bible (with notes) reads it as this:

Rom 9:19 - (16) Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

(16) Another objection, but only for the reprobate, rising upon the former answer. If God appoints to everlasting destruction, such as he wishes, and if that which he has decreed cannot be hindered nor withstood, how does he justly condemn those who perish by his will?

Some Treasury Scripture passage in light of "His will" of which I ask you, "...who hath resisted His will?"

1. God decrees evil for good.
Gen 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

(1.)The word for meant in the Hebrew can also be defined as: to fabricate, devise, or purpose. (See Strongs)

a. God fabricated it unto good.
b. God devised it unto good.
c. God purposed it unto good.


H2803
חשׁב
châshab
khaw-shab'
A primitive root; properly to plait or interpenetrate, that is, (literally) to weave or (generally) to fabricate; figuratively to plot or contrive (usually in a malicious sense); hence (from the mental effort) to think, regard, value, compute: - (make) account (of), conceive, consider, count, cunning (man, work, workman), devise, esteem, find out, forecast, hold, imagine, impute, invent, be like, mean, purpose, reckon (-ing be made), regard, think.

2. God counseled and determined for Jesus to be crucified by men.
Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

3. God rules over all and none is able to withstand Him.
2Ch 20:6 And said, O LORD God of our fathers, art not thou God in heaven? and rulest not thou over all the kingdoms of the heathen? and in thine hand is there not power and might, so that none is able to withstand thee?

4. What God's soul desires, even that He doeth.
Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
Job 23:14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

(1.) Does God desire the salvation of all men? If He does, then why doesn't He do it? Who can turn Him from what He desires and doeth?

(2.) Who can turn Him from performing the thing that is appointed for you?

5. Men do whatsoever God's hand and His counsel determined before to be done.
Act 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
Act 4:28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

6. The scriptures cannot be broken. God determined for Judas to betray Jesus.
Mat 26:54 But how then shall the Scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?
Luk 22:22 And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!

7. Those who stumble at the word, being disobedient were appointed to this.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

(1.) Who performed the thing that was appointed for them? Men or God?
Job 23:14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

8. God says, "I am God, and there is none like me." God has declared the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done. His counsel shall stand and He will do all His pleasure.
Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Isa 46:11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

(1.) If it is God's pleasure that all men should be saved, why does He not perform it and appoint it for all? Shall he not do all His pleasure?

(2.) If it is God's desire for all men (universally throughout all eternity) to be saved, why does He not purpose it and do it?

9. The many devices in a man's heart shall not destroy the counsel of the LORD.
Pro 19:21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.

(1.) Shall the will of man change the counsel of the Lord? Shall the will of man change what God has appointed and determined before? (examples: Judas' betrayal and Peter's denial.)

10. God's ways are past finding out and His judgments are unsearchable.
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counselor?
Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory forever. Amen.

All things are:
(1.) For Him
(2.) Through Him
(3.) To Him


Now back to our text, Let us see How Paul answers the question, "Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?"

Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

(1.) Can God's will of forming us and making us be resisted?

Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?

(2.) Can God's will of making one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor be resisted?

Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

(3.) Can God's will to show His wrath, and to make his power known on vessels of wrath fitted to destruction be resisted?

Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

(4.) Can God's will to make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy (which he had afore prepared unto glory) be resisted?

Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Hosea, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
Rom 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
Rom 9:27 Isaiah also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
Rom 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
Rom 9:29 And as Isaiah said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodom, and been made like unto Gomorrah.

God bless you! -Abraham


 2007/9/8 0:59
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re: Who can turn Him from performing the thing that is appointed for you?

Quote:
(1.) If it is God's pleasure that all men should be saved, why does He not perform it and appoint it for all? Shall he not do all His pleasure?

He has done and is doing His pleasure. what is His pleasure but that in all things Christ might be given prominence. all things are for Him, through Him, and to Him. that is the sovereign end of God's plan, that Christ will be our all in all.

btw, it pleased the LORD to crush Him. it was all His sovereign will for His good pleasure. what was the purpose of the crushing of Christ?? besides many things, that Jesus might reconcile man and God together and that God would have sons and daughters.
Quote:
(2.) If it is God's desire for all men (universally throughout all eternity) to be saved, why does He not purpose it and do it?

brother you confuse God's perfect will with His permittable will. (example it is God's perfect will that christians obstain from sexual immorality, but sometimes christians commit sexual immorality. was it God's pefect will that a christian committed sexual immorality?? no, he permitted it, but it was not His perfect will and/or desire).

such is the case with the world. God's perfect desire/will is that all man be saved. but because He has sovereignly allowed man to choose whether he will receive or reject, not all man will be saved. does this diminish His sovereignty? by no means, it in fact magnifies it much more. and the only reason that all will not be saved is because He has chosen to limit Himself by our choices and let us choose whether we will accept and receive HIs grace or reject it. just in case you think that God cannot be limited by our choices "psalm 78:41 yes, again and again they tempted God, [b]and limited the Holy One of Israel[/b]. did you see that?? the Holy One was limited by the choices of israel in the desert. was His sovereignty limited??? not one bit. but He was limited in that He could not do for them all that He desired because of their rebellion and sin. such is the case with the world today. He is limited because man has chosen to rebel against a holy and mighty God. He cannot save them and do what He wants for them because of their sin and unbelief. that is why the whole world is not saved. He refuses to force the world to salvation because such an approach is not love at all.

-sovereignly loved and permitted to choose Him
phil




 2007/9/8 10:13Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re: Who can turn Him from performing the thing that is appointed for you?

Quote:
Abe_Juliot wrote:
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

1. Who is the Thou and why does he say this?
2. What does it mean by "His will"?
3. Who has resisted His will?

[b]1. Who is the Thou and why does he say this?[/b]
Any one would say this, it is retorical.

[b]2. What does it mean by "His will"?[/b]
The will that hardend Pharaoh's heart.
After Pharaoh hardend his own heart in defiance to God's command to let Israel go, God did what he did to balaam in judgent.

God had said to balaam, [b]Num 22:12[/b] "[color=990000]You shall not go with them[Balak the son of Zippor, king of Moab]; you shall not curse the people: for they are blessed[/color]."
Then Balaam said, "[b]Num 22:19[/b] [color=990000]Now therefore, I pray you, tarry you also here this night, [b]that I may know what more the LORD will say unto me.[/b][/color]
Balaam already new what God had said to him, but in greed he hardend is heart to what God had said at first.
Therefore God gave to balaam what he wanted as a judgment.
[/b]Num 22:20[/b] [color=990000]And God came unto Balaam at night, and said unto him, If the men come to call you, rise up, and go with them; but yet the word which I shall say unto you, that shall you do.[/color]

In light of this, God gave Pharaoh what he wanted in judgment, a hard heart.

Therefore, after God hardens your heart from your continual disobediance from God's known comand, [color=990000]who has resisted his will?[/color]
[b]3. Who has resisted His will?[/b]
God's will of judgment.

Quote:
Abe_Juliot wrote:
(16) Another objection, but only for the reprobate, rising upon the former answer. If God appoints to everlasting destruction, such as he wishes, and if that which he has decreed cannot be hindered nor withstood, how does he justly condemn those who perish by his will?


God justly condemn those who disobeyed His command.
However, God's command is His mercy. For God commands in hope that one will obey.
[b]Psa 95:8[/b] [color=990000]Harden not your heart, as in the provocation[/color]
What happens when one hardens his heart?
[b]Psa 95:11[/b] [color=990000]Unto whom I swore in my anger that they should not enter into my rest.[/color]
[color=990000]who has resisted his will?[/color]

Therefore, the declairations of God's will of judgment are bound to happen, no one can thwart them.

However, God's forknolege is not decreed.

[b]Mat 26:34[/b] [color=990000]Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto you, That this night, before the cock crows, you shall deny me three times.[/color]
Jesus did not decree this, he only knew it would happen.

God would not make someone to sin, God did not forordain, apoint, or make Peter to deny Jesus.
Jesus only knew that he would.
Therefore Peter could have not denied Jesus for it wasn't God's will, nor was it His judgment on peter.
On the part of Pharaoh, he could have not denied Moses, for it wasn't God's will, otherwise God wod not have commanded him.
If it was God will for for it wasn't God's will, not to let them go, God would have told Pharaoh not to let them go.

Why would God want anyone to do what HE commands them not to do?
God wanted Pharaoh to obey and to show His power in him, and that Gods name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Now, if one accepts the fact that God wants people to do what HE commands them not to do, one will come into the herassy that God wanted Adam to eat of the tree of the knowlege of good and evil.

Quote:
Abe_Juliot wrote:
(1.) If it is God's pleasure that all men should be saved, why does He not perform it and appoint it for all? Shall he not do all His pleasure?

God could not have all men to be saved.
Do you imply that God takes plesure in creating only to damn?
That god would be a devil.

Quote:
Abe_Juliot wrote:
(2.) If it is God's desire for all men (universally throughout all eternity) to be saved, why does He not purpose it and do it?

Again, He could not.
It is a logical imposability because of free will. Just like God can not make a round square, God can not save all, otherwise He would need to make robots.

Quote:
Abe_Juliot wrote:
(1.) Shall the will of man change the counsel of the Lord? Shall the will of man change what God has appointed and determined before?


[b]Exo 32:10[/b] [color=990000]Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.[/color]
The counsel of the Lord was to consume Israel.

[b]Exo 32:11[/b] [color=990000]And Moses besought the LORD his God.[/color]
[b]Exo 32:14[/b] [color=990000]And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.[/color]
Moses's will changed what God has appointed and determined before.
Quote:
Abe_Juliot wrote:
examples: Judas' betrayal and Peter's denial

It did have to be Judas who betrayed Jesus, the Word only says that it had to happen, nothing specificaly to anyone.
As for Petar, see above.

Quote:
Abe_Juliot wrote:
Now back to our text, Let us see How Paul answers the question, "Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?"

Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

(1.) Can God's will of forming us and making us be resisted?

"Why hast thou made me thus?"


[b]Jer 18:4[/b] [color=990000]And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter[/color]The Potter did not marr the clay, it was marred in his hand.
That means that the clay hand an imperfection.
No potter would marr their pot on purpose.

One brings it upon himself that God would reform the clay.
Just as Juda resisted Gods will in that HE sent Jeramiah out of mercy telling them to repent, Juda rebeled and was was sent to Babylon.
That is the Potter reforming the clay.

They were not made to be captive in Babilon, but God had to judge by reforming them.

Quote:
Abe_Juliot wrote:
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?

(2.) Can God's will of making one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor be resisted?

Of course, God would not creat only to damn.
[b]2Tim 2:21[/b] [color=990000]If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.[/color]
This give man the choice to be a vessel unto honour.

Quote:
Abe_Juliot wrote:
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

(3.) Can God's will to show His wrath, and to make his power known on vessels of wrath fitted to destruction be resisted?

Not after God's mercy has bee resisted.


Quote:
Abe_Juliot wrote:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

(4.) Can God's will to make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy (which he had afore prepared unto glory) be resisted?

Apprantly yes.
God commands in hope of submission to His will.
Those who disobeyed His command and is now in hell is proofe of God's will being resisted.

Again, Why would God command a thing for the only reason of being diobeyed?
God commanded Pharaoh to free His people in hope that he would.
The command to do so was a mercy, for God could have distroyed Pharaoh right then and there.
God does not manipulate. He does not tell man to do things only for man to disobey.
If God wanted Pharaoh to not let Israel to go, He would have commanded Pharaoh not to.

 2007/9/8 13:05Profile





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