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5nva
Member



Joined: 2003/8/15
Posts: 179


 Re:

Picture of a Prophet
By Leonard Ravenhill

The prophet in his day is fully accepted of God and totally rejected by men.

Years back, Dr. Gregory Mantle was right when he said, "No man can be fully accepted until he is totally rejected." The prophet of the Lord is aware of both these experiences. They are his "brand name."

The group, challenged by the prophet because they are smug and comfortably insulated from a perishing world in their warm but untested theology, is not likely to vote him "Man of the year" when he refers to them as habituates of the synagogue of Satan!

The prophet comes to set up that which is upset. His work is to call into line those who are out of line! He is unpopular because he opposes the popular in morality and spirituality. In a day of faceless politicians and voiceless preachers, there is not a more urgent national need than that we cry to God for a prophet! The function of the prophet, as Austin-Sparks once said, "has almost always been that of recovery."

The prophet is God's detective seeking for a lost treasure. The degree of his effectiveness is determined by his measure of unpopularity.

Compromise is not known to him.
He has no price tags.

He is totally "otherworldly."

He is unquestionably controversial and unpardonably hostile.

He marches to another drummer!

He breathes the rarefied air of inspiration.

He is a "seer" who comes to lead the blind.

He lives in the heights of God and comes into the valley with a "thus saith the Lord."

He shares some of the foreknowledge of God and so is aware of impending judgment.

He lives in "splendid isolation."

He is forthright and outright, but he claims no birthright.

His message is "repent, be reconciled to God or else...!"

His prophecies are parried.

His truth brings torment, but his voice is never void.

He is the villain of today and the hero of tomorrow.

He is excommunicated while alive and exalted when dead!

He is dishonored with epithets when breathing and honored with epitaphs when dead.

He is a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, but few "make the grade" in his class.

He is friendless while living and famous when dead.

He is against the establishment in ministry; then he is established as a saint by posterity.

He eats daily the bread of affliction while he ministers, but he feeds the Bread of Life to those who listen.

He walks before men for days but has walked before God for years.

He is a scourge to the nation before he is scourged by the nation.

He announces, pronounces, and denounces!

He has a heart like a volcano and his words are as fire.

He talks to men about God.

He carries the lamp of truth amongst heretics while he is lampooned by men.

He faces God before he faces men, but he is self-effacing.

He hides with God in the secret place, but he has nothing to hide in the marketplace.

He is naturally sensitive but supernaturally spiritual.

He has passion, purpose and pugnacity.

He is ordained of God but disdained by men.
Our national need at this hour is not that the dollar recover its strength, or that we save face over the Watergate affair, or that we find the answer to the ecology problem. We need a God-sent prophet!

I am bombarded with talk or letters about the coming shortages in our national life: bread, fuel, energy. I read between the lines from people not practiced in scaring folk. They feel that the "seven years of plenty" are over for us. The "seven years of famine" are ahead. But the greatest famine of all in this nation at this given moment is a FAMINE OF THE HEARING OF THE WORDS OF GOD (Amos 8:11).

Millions have been spent on evangelism in the last twenty-five years. Hundreds of gospel messages streak through the air over the nation every day. Crusades have been held; healing meetings have made a vital contribution. "Come-outers" have "come out" and settled, too, without a nation-shaking revival. Organizers we have. Skilled preachers abound. Multi-million dollar Christian organizations straddle the nation. BUT where, oh where, is the prophet? Where are the incandescent men fresh from the holy place? Where is the Moses to plead in fasting before the holiness of the Lord for our moldy morality, our political perfidy, and sour and sick spirituality?

GOD'S MEN ARE IN HIDING UNTIL THE DAY OF THEIR SHOWING FORTH. They will come. The prophet is violated during his ministry, but he is vindicated by history.

There is a terrible vacuum in evangelical Christianity today. The missing person in our ranks is the prophet. The man with a terrible earnestness. The man totally otherworldly. The man rejected by other men, even other good men, because they consider him too austere, too severely committed, too negative and unsociable.

Let him be as plain as John the Baptist. Let him for a season be a voice crying in the wilderness of modern theology and stagnant "churchianity." Let him be as selfless as Paul the apostle. Let him, too, say and live, "This ONE thing I do." Let him reject ecclesiastical favors. Let him be self-abasing, nonself-seeking, nonself-projecting, nonself-righteous, nonself-glorying, nonself-promoting. Let him say nothing that will draw men to himself but only that which will move men to God. Let him come daily from the throne room of a holy God, the place where he has received the order of the day. Let him, under God, unstop the ears of the millions who are deaf through the clatter of shekels milked from this hour of material mesmerism. Let him cry with a voice this century has not heard because he has seen a vision no man in this century has seen. God send us this Moses to lead us from the wilderness of crass materialism, where the rattlesnakes of lust bite us and where enlightened men, totally blind spiritually, lead us to an ever-nearing Armageddon.

God have mercy! Send us PROPHETS!


_________________
Mike

 2004/5/14 21:24Profile
laholmes
Member



Joined: 2003/7/8
Posts: 58


 Re:

I too believe that prophets exist today. In the OT prophets did speak of Christ and his first coming. Even John the Baptist in the NT spoke of this. This foretelling is what is often thought of when the word prophet is heard. But most often it seems, the prophet was more of a forth teller. That is to say, he spoke a word from the Lord. Prophets were often unpopular people who had a burden from the Lord to share. Jeremiah, Habakuk, and Isaiah are just a few examples.

Many people claim to be prophets, that is, wanting the glamourous part of being on TV, selling books, and having a large church. A true prophet does not speak because he wants to, but becasue he has to. Lloyd-Jones said of preaching, and I believe the same is true of prophets. It is not that they want to, but that they have to. They see the awesomness of the task that lies before them, but it is only the call of the Lord that moves them forward.

 2004/5/14 21:47Profile
KeithLaMothe
Member



Joined: 2004/3/28
Posts: 354


 Re: DOES GOD USE PROPHETS TODAY?

Are there true prophets alive today? Yes.

Is God using them? I guess that depends on what kind of use you're looking for.

As far as I can tell, the primary prophetic message has always been "turn back to God!" I tend to distinguish this exhortative capacity from foreknowledge and the like. However, there are some with far more than an annointing to exhort, so I'm not sure which to call prophets, and how "used" they are right now.

Let us be careful to consider what it means to be so near to God's heart that one can speak from it. There's deep devotion in this group, but are we anywhere near that kind of Holiness... ?

I do not envy any set aside for prophetic ministry. One's words may burn and thresh, but one is first consumed in fire and threshed through.

 2004/5/15 1:17Profile
Gideons
Member



Joined: 2003/9/16
Posts: 474
Virginia

 Re:

I'm getting ready to go to work but I saw this quote.

Quote:
Let us be careful to consider what it means to be so near to God's heart that one can speak from it. There's deep devotion in this group, but are we anywhere near that kind of Holiness... ?

I agree Keith. The purpose of any spiritual gift is always to bring the saints closer to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Any other purpose (e.g self-edification, etc.) would be questionable at best.

As far as this quote
Quote:
"I do not envy any set aside for prophetic ministry. One's words may burn and thresh, but one is first consumed in fire and threshed through."

Amen. If that is what God wants for some of us, surely He will give us that desire.


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Ed Pugh

 2004/5/15 9:52Profile
moreofHim
Member



Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: prophets

Quote:
One does not decide to become a prophet, neither may one volunteer their services to be a prophet.

God reserves the right to set His own watchmen, and this He will do according to His will, and according to His timing. We do not know why He chooses the ones He chooses. It is a work of grace. Many prophets are selected from birth or from childhood. John the Baptist was filled with the Spirit within his mothers womb. We dare not intrude into this holy work by setting up our own prophets or stepping into a place that God has not put us. It is Gods Hand, and no other.



Quote:
The prophet speaks primarily to Gods people, the house of Israel. The New Testament church is the spiritual Israel of God. Watchmen do not speak to the world at large, casting their pearls before swine. They are called to exhort, edify, rebuke, and build the Church of God, building upon the foundation that is laid already in Christ.



Quote:
It is typically a surgical strike, directed and honed to penetrate a particular thing in the Body of Christ, with Spirit-led precision that cuts through the formalities and niceties to get to the guts of the task at hand. The very nature of the of message cuts to the quick and makes some gnash their teeth



Quote:
The watchman is on the wall and is looking at things from a different vantage point. He sees things you cannot or will not see. Since God has set him there, it would be a mistake to ignore the warning he brings.



Quote:
How do we discharge the burden of the Lord? After we have received revelation, and made intercession, we will know the best course. Sometimes we will find release through writing, such as Isaiah. On other occasions we may compose a song, as David. Or we may write poems and verse, as Jeremiah. We may act out the word dramatically, as Ezekiel. Or we may thunderously speak the Word as Moses, Elijah, or John the Baptist. We may speak in parables as the Lord Jesus. The tools, methods, and ways are different, but the underlying principle is the same. God will give different expression to the proclamation of the Word, and He will be pleased to use the prophets differently in accordance with their unique gifts and personalities.



Quote:
For the prophet is not merely interested in proclamation, but in the fourth stage of his ministry: restoration. Our mandate is to tear down, destroy, and level; afterwards we must rebuild and raise again.



Quote:
He is certainly pleased to set watchmen over the Church today. But as we have seen, the ministry of the watchman is more likely to be found in the prayer closet than the pulpit.




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Chanin

 2004/5/15 10:06Profile
riki
Member



Joined: 2003/11/30
Posts: 78
Sweden

 Re:

Hmmm...

It seems to me that there may still be some confusion here between the [i]gift[/i] of profecy and the [i]office[/i] of profet. I believe it is vitally important that we make a clear distinction.


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Rikard Eriksson

 2004/5/15 16:04Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

It seems to me that there may still be some confusion here between the gift of profecy and the office of profet. I believe it is vitally important that we make a clear distinction.



An elaboration is in order.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2004/5/15 16:15Profile
5nva
Member



Joined: 2003/8/15
Posts: 179


 Re:

Riki:

That is the very thing that was on my mind as I was driving today and when I got on the site to add to the post I saw what you had added.

There are prophetic gifts and there is the office of the prophet. I am probably not the one to try to define the two but it would be good for us all to continue on in this post and see what come out. Art Katz clears some of this up in his books The Spirit of Prophecy and The Prophetic Call.

Clinging to Jesus,

Mike


_________________
Mike

 2004/5/15 19:45Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: The Difference between the Prophet & the Gift of Prophesy

Good Lord's Day Saints,

Hope this helps ... Amen


THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE GIFT OF
THE PROPHET & PROPHESYING

One of the reasons there is confusion in the church today about the prophet gift is the failure to distinguish between the “gift of the prophet” and “gift of prophesying”. One is a “gift of the prophet” from Christ to the church and the other is a “gift of prophesying” given by the Holy Spirit to individuals within the church. Even though to the casual reader this may appear to be just a play on words, this fact is important in understanding the difference in the “gift of the prophet” and the “gift of prophesying”.

According to Ephesians 4:11-16 “He(Christ: See v7) gave some… i.e., prophets …for the 1)perfecting of the saints, 2)for the work of the ministry, 3)for the edifying of the body of Christ…”. In the Greek, this passage clearly states that these equipping leaders were themselves a gift of Christ to His church and it was not just the gift of prophecy that was given. I Corinthians 12:28 adds, “And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers…”

Only the prophet, as an equipping servant-leader, is qualified according to Scripture to function in what the KJV calls the “office” of a prophet. However, it is important to qualify this word “office”, for the connotation today is that “office” implies position or rank. In reality, the KJV’s use of the word “office” does not accurately translate that Greek word in any of the three times it occurs.

All three uses of the word “office” in the KJV, which include Romans 11:13, Romans 12:4 and I Timothy 3:1 , should not be translated as “office”. In Romans 11:13 Paul said, “I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine “office” (Gr.diakonia=service, ministry). Romans 12:4 states, “For as we have many members in the one body, and all members have not the same “office” (Gr.proxis=work, action, use).” I Timothy 3:1 it says, “This is a true saying, If a man desire, the “office”(Gr.episkope=oversite) of a bishop, he desireth a good work.”

In truth, the “office” is not a position nor a rank but rather a descriptive function. The different Greek names given to represent the various leaders in the church(i.e. apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers, deacons, etc.), simply describe who these leaders were and what their function was in the church.

The servant leaders who are described in Ephesians 4:11 were themselves gifts to the church. Their primary purpose was to serve and lead by example. Their primary function was 1)”For the perfecting of the saints,” 2)”for the work of ministry,” 3)”for the edifying of the body of Christ:”

Those who serve in the function or “office” of a prophet, that is as a “gift” from Christ to the church, operate in this gift as their primary ministry and are known and recognized through discernment by the church as a result of the confirmation of the Holy Spirit. Because the prophets are a “gift” to the church, the prophets function in a continuing prophetic ministry and they consistently walk in that gift because that is who they are in the Body of Christ.

Now, concerning the issue of the “gift of prophesying”. It is a gift of the Holy Spirit available to any believer in the Body of Christ. According to I Corinthians 12:7 “The manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. I Corinthians 12:8, 10 adds “For to one is given by the Spirit…i.e. prophecy…” In I Corinthians 12:11 it states, “But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.” I Corinthians 12:18 says, “But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.” In I Corinthians 12:29 it says, “Are all apostles?(Gr. ‘No’)Are all prophets?”(Gr. ‘No’)Are all teachers?” (Gr. ‘No’)

Thus we see that the “gift of prophesying” is available from the Holy Spirit to all believer in the Body of Christ. The “gift of prophesying” can be ministered by the Spirit through any believer in the Body of Christ at any time the Spirit chooses. The persons who minister in the “gift of prophesying” do so by the unction of the Holy Spirit. Persons who are moved by the Spirit to prophesy may be led to prophecy “only one time” or “many times” depending upon how the Holy Spirit leads. The “gift of prophesying” is exercised by any believer within the Body according to the order given in.

http://www.churchrestoration.org/teach/more/

 2004/5/16 14:00Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: Does God use Prophets Today?

((( Praise God!

What a lively discussion! ...

I totally believe that our Lord still uses, and unfortunately still has to employ "prophets" today ... In fact I'd say especially TODAY! .... Today we're "techno-wicked". But have you ever noticed that in all of Israel's long history there really weren't that many prophets compared to the time period ... Prophets are not trotted out in masse as God's chosen like High Priests, priests and kings were in Israel's time, nor pastors, teachers and evangelist today ... To paraphrase Bro. Ravenhill, we (and I see no reason why we should deny our God given office) are God's emergency implements when people (mainly His own) are about to, or have already crossed over His invisible line where His grace ends and His wrath begins ... It does not bring joy to God, and certainly not to the poor soul that He calls to the office, to have to trot out a "prophet" ... Things are usually pretty foul when this happens.

At least in ancient times folk waited to "kill the messenger" when he finally arrived upon the scene ... Today, thru up front satanic inspired disbelief by some Christian denominations in the office, the "messenger" is killed before we're even called to arrive ... And for the denominations that do believe in "prophets" the devil has sown so many false ones that even His true ones are also tossed into the "flake" bin ... I've pulled some quotes from some of your post that really stuck out to me. )))



Greg (from your post):

They are grieved and vexed over sin only because God is! they share the heart of God. Ravenhill says "Prophets are God's emergency men for crisis hours." We are living in a crucial hour where just clear bible exposition will not suffice, we need to hear the mind and heart of God in our day.



((( We need to hear the mind and heart of God ... Amen to that! ... So apparently when the prophet is called out it's because we've become spiritually deaf, and blind, and a huge pit is just before us )))



Chanin (from your post):

The function of the prophetic intercessor, or watchman, is best defined as taking place in the course of four stages: Revelation, Intercession, Proclamation, and Restoration.



((( I don't like the word "revelation" when it comes to a New Testament prophet ... I think a better word would be "illumination" on what's alreadt revealed ... There are no new revelations forthcoming in the entire Bible save for the two books spoken of in the Revelation that are to be opened in the future ... NT prophets recieve further "illumination" from God on what's already revealed )))



Prophets are not called by a denomination or installed by men.

One does not decide to become a prophet, neither may one volunteer their services to be a prophet.



((( One would have to be nuts to do so, or very young and idealistic ... I say this because when I was 13/14 I used to pray to God that I could be one of the two witnesses spoken of in the Revelation ... My parents thought that was pretty weird )))



They are called to exhort, edify, rebuke, and build the Church of God, building upon the foundation that is laid already in Christ.



((( Especially exhort and edify ... These to me are the main function of the NT prophet in Christ church, to counter satan's fear with God's faith! ... To be brought to a point where God uses one human to openly rebuke fellow humans is really very hard on the human, for we too are men of unclean lips, etc ... If you run across any human who likes to rebuke other humans they're sadist, and that ain't of God ... God Himself doesn't even like to rebuke ... But we leave Him no other choice, and since He still operates
via "us", when it comes time for His voice of rebuke and chastisement some (saved) human is gonna become that voice )))



The prophet speaks primarily to Gods people, the house of Israel. The New Testament church is the spiritual Israel of God (Galatians 3:39; 4:21-31).

The prophet does not usually bring a one size fits all generic sort of message that speaks to the universe. It is typically a surgical strike, directed and honed to penetrate a particular thing in the Body of Christ, with Spirit-led precision that cuts through the formalities and niceties to get to the guts of the task at hand. The very nature of the of message cuts to the quick and makes some gnash their teeth.

We may argue that we are all priests and the Lord may speak to us just as He speaks to prophets. This is the spirit behind Korahs Rebellion:


((( I found this extremely enteresting because I have often wondered how scholars determined that (two) elements of the five-fold ministry were no longer relevant to today ... So maybe the reason why God's church is in dis-array is because pastors, teachers and evangelist have no one to reign them in ... And the ones that try (like Dave Wilkerson) are labelled crack-pots )))



The watchman is on the wall and is looking at things from a different vantage point. He sees things you cannot or will not see. Since God has set him there, it would be a mistake to ignore the warning he brings.



((( There are two main advantages from being chosen a "watchman/trumpet blower" that offset the societal disdain usually suffered ... 1.) - The intensity of closeness experienced with God ... 2.) - The afore-knowledge of how/which way to manuever your loved ones away from the impending danger to the best of ones ability within His blessing ... )))


Here is the situation. God has planted a word in our heart. We will be uncomfortable until we find release through prayer or through proclamation or both.



((( Ugggggghhhhhh ... It's a burden that has to be "laid down" by the action required of God )))



Jeremiah referred to it: Then I said, I will not make mention of him, nor speak any more in his name. But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay (Jeremiah 20:9).

Let him fail or make a fool of himself in public and God will still use Him; let him fail in the prayer closet and he will be discarded as a prophet.





5nva (all of what you posted about Bro. Ravenhill) ....




((( I agree ... Nobody (as of now) has hit the definition of "prophet" (to me) as concisely as Ravenhill and I love this one gem in particular ..... "One thing for sure is that the true prophet is humble, unwordly and points to Jesus Christ ... For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Rev. 19:10b" ... This says it all! )))




laholmes (from your post):

A true prophet does not speak because he wants to, but becasue he has to.



KeithLaMothe (from your post):

Let us be careful to consider what it means to be so near to God's heart that one can speak from it. There's deep devotion in this group, but are we anywhere near that kind of Holiness... ?



((( Bro. Keith, none of us are ... That's why I think it's so difficult to be called to this office ... The first thought that should come to mind (I believe) is "Lord, who am I that I should be telling anyone I speak for you ... There are so many other better candidates other than me" ... Nobody in their right mind, on the human side of things, would want such a mantle ... )))


I do not envy any set aside for prophetic ministry. One's words may burn and thresh, but one is first consumed in fire and threshed through.



((( Me neither ... but running from it is far worse, I know because I tried ... Bro. Keith you seem to be privy to thoughts of this office that very few others assess ... Am I percieving that thou art a ... hmmmm)))





Here's a site many of you might find interesting ...

http://latter-rain.com/perspectives/ - select “prophets”


Because of Him,


R

 2004/5/16 15:42Profile





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