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Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374

 It's not the chosen land, but the chosen people in the land ...

We Christians all over America are troubled by one point or another, but i think we all miss the main point! ... We debate back and forth whether America is a Christian nation or not, or has God chosen us, and blessed us, because we're a Christian nation? ...

[color=FF0000]Again i'd like to reiterate what i think is the main point ... America (as Britain once was) is not blessed of God because we're a Christian nation, but because we're a nation supposedly made up primarily of Christians, believers in Jesus! ... The blessing is/was not on the nation as a governing political/economic entity, but on the people! ... [/color] ... It's in our history, tho we also had/have many things in it that were/are not Christ-like as well, but even in just the last 100 years, and especially so in the last 50, America has taken a turn for the worse, and if the nation was once primarily Christian, who are the folk who took the turn for the worse? ...

Christ said that He'd vomit out of His mouth lukewarm saints/churches didn't He? ... Why? ... Because trying to be profound and profane at the same time makes Him sick on His stomach? ... Is the heathen in Christ? ... Nope! ... Is the saint/Church in Christ? ... Yes! ... So we're the only ones who can make Him sick ... If a nation is made up primarily of saints/churches pleasing to God, as with Israel, it stands to reason God would bless that nation ... If a nation is made up primarily of saints/churches primarily lukewarm to Jesus, as with Israel, then it stands to reason He's gonna withdraw the blessing (which in a large measure is protection) ...

This is my belief ... Our nation, America, is not at this place of correction by God because of the sins of the nation, but because of the sins of we Christian who still (tho dwindling) make up the nation ... If we American saints in this nation we're truly salt and light in the way Jesus Christ prescribes, i venture to say we'd not be in the present predicaments we're ALL in ... Take for instance housing debt alone ... If 60% of America is
alledgedly Christian, then who's primarily up their necks in debt? ... The same can be asked regarding all the other spiritual ills plaguing the nation ...

God is long-suffering, and seemingly allows His misguided people to get away with dragging His name thru the mud ... God the Father did so with Israel, as God the Son does with His Bride ... Knocking-no answer! ... Knocking-no answer! ... But bless God He also said as many as He loves He also rebukes and chastens, so that says to me the "correction" is not about a lukewarm nation, but about we double-minded, fence straddling, mixers of the profane pursuit of the American dream at the expense of the profound Messianic theme, lukewarm saints and churches of the nation ...

Blessings in He who is determined to finish the good work He started in us ...

 2007/9/9 11:02Profile

Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406

 Re: It's not the chosen land, but the chosen people in the land ...

Brother Rahman,

Very good post and packed with truth; now if we could, in America, see the difference between supposedly being Christians and real followers of Jesus Christ.
As the old saying goes, if you were born in a garage, does that make you a car? Nooo!
Then why would one think they were a Christian because they were born in America, unless they believe America is God’s country thus it is automatic.
How sad, the lies that lead to the pit sound so good and yet are so far from the truth.

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Luke 13:25
When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Only through Jesus and His word will we know the truth:

John 8:31-32
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; [32] And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

He is the only way, not America or any other kingdom of this world.

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Yes Brother, it is time for those who are His to be the salt and light He has called us to be.

Only “he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”

In His Love

 2007/9/14 21:00Profile

 Re: Chosen and chooses what ?

Jer 51:5 For Israel hath not been forsaken, nor Judah of his God, of the LORD of hosts; though their land was filled with sin against the Holy One of Israel.
Jer 51:6 Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD's vengeance; he will render unto her a recompense.
Jer 51:7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD's hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.
Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication
Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Rev 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
Rev 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
Rev 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
Rev 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
Rev 18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
Rev 18:12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
Rev 18:13 And cinnamon, and odors, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
Rev 18:14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
Rev 18:15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
Rev 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
Rev 18:17 For in one hour so great riches is come to naught. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
Rev 18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
Rev 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
Rev 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
Rev 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Rev 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honor, and power, unto the Lord our God:
Rev 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
Rev 19:3 And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up forever and ever.
Rev 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshiped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
Rev 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
Rev 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

 2007/9/14 21:19

Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


HE_Reigns wrote:

Rev 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honor, and power, unto the Lord our God:

With all our writings, doctrinal beliefs, and the things we say are most important to us, all comes down to this.
Do we really trust that His judgments are true and righteous?
It does not seem so when one appers to love the oppions of men over the Word of God.
If we do not trust His judgments then we are lost in Babylon.

Thank you HE_Reigns for posting these scripture.

In His Love

 2007/9/17 19:54Profile


You guys want even stay with the subject at hand, are about what Hal Lindsey preaches and teaches. He by no means indicates in any form or fashion being an American makes one a christian. This is one of the main reason common ground is so hard to be reached between many differences on SI or many places for that matter. Hal Lindsey always preaches Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. Sorry guys you are chasing rabbits!!!!!
Kinda reminds me of a toddler who had painting his bedroom wall with water colors. His Dad ask him. Did you do that? His reply," I think I did or not." Reminds me of these posts.

 2007/9/18 0:16

Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752



jlosinski wrote:
May not be totally on subject, but I think that the body of Christ in North America needs some old fashioned physical persecution. I'm not saying this to be flippant, such persecution has always flamed the refining fire of God in true hearts.

No legal battles in court as to the definition of "free speech" concerning religion, you are unjustly tried and punished for spreading the Gospel. No legal loopholes, just confessing to the rock of offense and taking your unjust punishment as a disciple of Christ.

It seems that it would a sort of chastisment for the body of Christ, a disciplining for the weak gospel that is in our country today, I think that we have lost sight of the justice of God.

Atta boy. The Church in America needs it.

Look at the curches in persecuted THRIVES. When the Lord manifests in His people, persecution comes. Then perserverance, then hope.

In Christ


 2007/9/18 2:26Profile


Moe wrote

Thanks Pastorfrin and He_reigns for the kind words, support and friendship. I have many times in my prayers ask God if I was doing the right thing posting on SI and many times have listened intently for instructions from HIM, to post or not to post ever again, because often the way I come across in my post offends others. To offend if not my purpose or intentions. I not only have that problem of offending on SI, but also in my many face to face life relationships with other people, even my family. I know that when I read a post, if I knew more about the person posting, I could better answer the post and with more compassion than I normally do. Often we don't know what they are going through or have just been through in life's problems. Also we have many different cultures on SI that tend to be a hinderance in our communications. But as I have said before to others on SI. At the end of the of the day and the post, after all of us have given what God's Word says to us and as a result we have more love for each other, than we did prior to the post, it's worth the pain. I can say that is the case here in this post.
Thanks brothers and God Bless.

Bro Moe

I was really blessed by your words here.

One of the problems in a forum is that it's so easy to jump to conclusions about what someone is saying. I've done it myself, when the tone of a post, or my general impression/opinion of the poster seems aggressive and unreasonable.

Sometimes I find it impossible at first to read the post after the first few sentences because the tone or content upsets me and maybe makes me angry.

This seems to be what you did originally, but it's so good to see that you and Pastorfrin have "made up".

I don't have time just now to read the original post in detail, (will try to get back to it later). Also, not being American, it isn't as relevant to me personally as it is to many of you.

However, I would like to comment on something at the beginning, and also the impression gained when reading posts from those of you from the USA especially. Being Welsh, I can identify with American nationalism, though it takes a different form here.

In any nation with a history of strong national patriotism and identity there is a tendency to define ourselves by this. Even as Christians we look at our nation, remember how God has blessed us in the past, and imagine His special favour rests on us in some way.

While there is a measure of truth in that, ("righteousness exalteth a nation...") it can give us a false pride and sense of security. Also the wrong sort of patriotism.

The only nation that was ever special to God [i][u]as such[/u][/i] is Israel, because of her special place in His plan of salvation. And of course national pride was/is one of their faults too - even though the Lord made it clear that it was nothing to do with their righteousness but becaue of HIM! He also made it clear that the blessing of Abraham wasn't to be kept to themselves alone but to be shared with all the nations of the earth.

In Wales we have never of course been a great nation as such, never had an empire, but we have had revivals, we have had the Gospel, we have had great and powerful songs of worship that flowed from the Revival. During the Revival, it seems, they actually used to say that Welsh was the language of heaven!

When I was in college in Aberystwyth there was a lot of nationalism among the students. Including several evangelical lads, who I have little doubt were truly born again.

Yet their sense of national identity and pride in language, history and culture clouded their Christian witness, because it lead to superiority and smugness.

I said to one of them, "You are a citizen of the Kingdom of Heaven first, a citizen of Wales second" And this boy who was more tolerant than most and didn't patronise me like some did because I'm not Welsh speaking, (though two sets of my great-grandparents were).

A warning agains that sort of wrong national pride and patriotism (there is a right sort) is surely part of what Pastorfrin was writing about?

Love in Jesus


 2007/9/18 8:03

Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


Thank you, LittleGift,

Your explanation of national pride and serving the Lord was excellent; now if we could only keep our priorities to:

Mark 12:29-31
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: [30] And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. [31] And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

If we do not obey these words of our Lord, the people of our nations will loose the blessings of the Lord. We the people are the ones who must make the choice, to serve God or man.

In His Love

 2007/9/22 11:58Profile

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